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Topic:
Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/27 6:18am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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Seriously, though. He was some Jedi fledgling. His ghosting was really silly.
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
4/27 6:50am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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So was Ulic's, unless he got pulled through. As much as I like to think that ghosting is not something you consciously do, it would seem that there were lots of Jedi that died like Obi-Wan or Yoda, or Qui-Gon, having lived their sorts of lives. Ulic couldn't have prepared himself to sublime into the Force because he couldn't have known it was possible for him.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/27 6:54am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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BobaMatt posted:
So was Ulic's, unless he got pulled through. As much as I like to think that ghosting is not something you consciously do, it would seem that there were lots of Jedi that died like Obi-Wan or Yoda, or Qui-Gon, having lived their sorts of lives. Ulic couldn't have prepared himself to sublime into the Force because he couldn't have known it was possible for him.
Oh!
You meant ULIC. You said Uli. I'm Uli, or at least, that's what people call me... so I was confused.
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
4/27 7:39am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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Whoops. Freudian?
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Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
4/27 9:29am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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BobaMatt posted:
So was Ulic's, unless he got pulled through. As much as I like to think that ghosting is not something you consciously do, it would seem that there were lots of Jedi that died like Obi-Wan or Yoda, or Qui-Gon, having lived their sorts of lives. Ulic couldn't have prepared himself to sublime into the Force because he couldn't have known it was possible for him.
Notch that one up to Master Arca Jeth. I don't see it as being "pulled through" so much anymore either. In the Rise and Fall of Darth Vader it has Obi-Wan and Yoda teaching Anakin the technique a split second before he dies. Arca taught Ulic immediately prior to death.
Think of this though, Yoda had to teach Obi-Wan something in order for him to be able to communicate with Qui-Gon Jinn who then taught Obi-Wan the Force spirit thing. Luke was able to hear Obi-Wan immediately after Obi-Wan's joining with the Force, my theory is that Obi-Wan taugh Luke the beginnings of the Force-union technique with that. Maybe all Jedi used to learn that, that's the implication of Nomi Sunrider asking Ulic why he thought he'd never seen or heard from Master Arca since he joined the Force. That tells me that they not only recieved the necessary meditations to be able to communicate with Jedi spirits, but it also has something to do with becoming one with the Force in the first place.
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
4/27 9:40am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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Well the thing with Ulic is that at the moment of his death he is not Force sensitive, so even if he's restored his sensitivity a fraction of a second before shuffling loose the mortal coil he's not in a position to do anything.
Further, I don't buy that you need to be initiated to hear the voices. Yoda hears them in AotC, and Leia receives telepathy on Bespin.
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Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
4/27 9:59am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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BobaMatt posted:
Well the thing with Ulic is that at the moment of his death he is not Force sensitive, so even if he's restored his sensitivity a fraction of a second before shuffling loose the mortal coil he's not in a position to do anything.
Further, I don't buy that you need to be initiated to hear the voices. Yoda hears them in AotC, and Leia receives telepathy on Bespin.
Telepathy is one thing, especially from her twin brother, but we're talking about hearing voices from beyond the grave. Yoda'd studied the Force for 900 years so I'll give him some credit. But did Anakin hear such voices? Not that I recall. Besides, Yoda says in ROTS the film, the comic and the novel that he has to train Obi-Wan to commune with Qui-Gon. So I'm inclined to believe that.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/27 10:41am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
- Date Edited:
4/27 11:01am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Arawn_Fenn
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Dawud786 posted:
In the Rise and Fall of Darth Vader it has Obi-Wan and Yoda teaching Anakin the technique a split second before he dies. Arca taught Ulic immediately prior to death.
I hadn't heard that, but it's gratifying to know.  IMO having Jedi learn how to ghost after dying would open up a logical hole.
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Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
4/27 11:08am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
Dawud786 posted:
In the Rise and Fall of Darth Vader it has Obi-Wan and Yoda teaching Anakin the technique a split second before he dies. Arca taught Ulic immediately prior to death.
I hadn't heard that, but it's gratifying to know. IMO having Jedi learn how to ghost after dying would open up a logical hole.
Which part are you talking about in the quoted sentence? The Anakin part or the Ulic part? If the Ulic part, I should amend it with "IMO." Just trying to make sense of it for Matt. If Anakin can be taught just before dying, so can Ulic.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/27 11:15am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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Both, really, but mainly the Anakin part.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/27 11:15am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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Dawud786 posted:
But did Anakin hear such voices? Not that I recall.
In the AotC novelisation, Salvatore's narrator states that Anakin had heard the words of Qui-Gon Jinn beyond the grave when slaughtering the tuskens, but ignored him.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/27 11:17am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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Did he even realize it was Qui-Gon? In the OT, Vader seems to not know about the existence of the Force ghosts.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/27 11:21am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
- Date Edited:
4/27 11:23am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ulicus
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
Did he even realize it was Qui-Gon? In the OT, Vader seems to not know about the existence of the Force ghosts.
It's not something that sticks in his mind for long. Per the novel, it appears Anakin is paying very little attention, so stricken by grief as he is.
Here we go: "Anakin, too, had heard the voice of Qui-Gon, imploring him to restrain himself, to deny the rage. He hadn't recognized it, though, for he was too full of pain and anger."
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Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
4/27 11:26am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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Hmmm. Okay, so maybe Skywalkers just have an innate ability to hear spirit voices. Still, Yoda's words to Obi-Wan suggest that this is something that would normally require training in order to listen. I can accept Anakin and Luke just being able to hear them though, by virtue of their high midi-chlorian counts and yadda yadda.
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
4/27 11:28am
Subject:
RE: Force Netherworld/Heaven and Hell
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Or maybe "commune" means something different than just hearing.
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