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Author	Topic: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
JediHobbit Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 5/22 4:48am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	Chapter 32: A quick getaway offers some nice space action, which we haven’t gotten since the beginning of the book. It sort of gets us into the “Old Corran” mindset as he is beginning his undercover career. Once escaping to the Errant Venture, and get to witness Keevy’s geek dream come true, we get some more Mara action. Although Lando isn’t directly seen, we hear he’s bumping around on the EV, and Mara offers up her opinion on him (take that Lando/Mara shippers!). Her discussion with Corran about his leaving the Academy does a good job of hinting at the concern she feels for Luke, and also puts more into perspective the last conversation Corran had with everyone’s favorite Jedi Master. Chapter 33: Corran joins the Khuiumin Survivors by parking The Ship That Got Away in their backyard. That’s certainly one way to make an entrance, but also the perfect act of bravado he needs to get in. Hearing the story of the Survivors’ formation, I’m pretty certain that MAS made it up so that he could use an established character (Jacob Nive) from an established pirate group, and not have to type Eyttyrmin Batiiv pirates all the time. I thought it was sort of interesting though that they had their own sort of moral code (attacks on Imperials, no insubordination or betraying comrades), since I always sort of picture space pirates as cutthroats and backstabbers. I sort of ignore Wraith Squadron as the Hawkbats, since they were just undercover and not a real pirate group. I wonder how common this type of moral code is common throughout the galaxy? Chapter 34: Corran gets introduced to Rock Squadron, and finds out he has another alien wingmate, this time an albino Shistavenan wolfwoman by the name of Caet Shrovl. On his test flight with Rock Lead, Corran mentions that he’s never flown a TIE before as he climbs into the clutch. While this was true when the book was written, Isard’s Revenge came out the following year and we see Corran in a TIE Defender immediately following the Thrawn crisis. Whoops. Careful MAS. I thought it was kind of funny that Corran (MAS) justifies how nice the clutch is from the point of view of a pilot by claiming the pilots Corran faced as a Rogue must not have been the best pilots. Vaping clutches easily was the fault of the pilots, not the hardware. Rock Lead (his name escapes me for the moment) throws in a small reference to the dogfight from chapter one from the Invid perspective, which I thought was cute. Then the Survivors get a revenge mission, without the rest of the Invids. The guy they’re looking to get is on a ship trying to rival Booster’s Errant Venture. Even though it’s only a corvette, it’s painted the shade of red that Booster’s been trying to paint the EV for some time. Too bad the only color produced in high enough quantities is Star Destroyer White. Palpatine was out to get Booster all along. Corran thinks about missing Whistler during the long space flight. I miss Whistler too, but that’s because I don’t think he’s been in any books since Isard’s Revenge. We have a random freighter getting mixed in the fray to provide some fighter action, but I liked how Corran only used ion bolts on the ships. I thought he did a nice job justifying his actions to his peers: the other pilots are just doing their jobs. Plus, if they show mercy now, others in the future might be more prone to just surrendering. Smart man. Chapter 35: Corran’s skillz gets him voted in charge of three flight, and he starts whipping them into shape. He’s got plenty of time, because he describes the time between missions as months. If we thought he was wasting time finding Mirax at the Jedi Academy, he’s definitely taking his time with the Survivors. Though it’s true that undercover work like this would probably take a long time, I can’t help but feel that he’s been keeping Mirax waiting quite a while. Corran does a great job defending Caet from Sasyru in the bar by deflecting his attacks. I thought the Corellian jokes Corran was making about himself were brilliant, made that much better by the rapid way he fired them off. Also a great way to really get his wingmate’s trust and embarrass the sithhole at the same time. After all this, Caet informs him how to become a True Invid, which will bring his goal within reach. Chapter 36: Corran gets elected as Rock Leader over the next couple of months, and gives them the same treatment as he gave three flight. He cleans them up, keeps them mostly sober for training and missions, and makes them fly and fight like he does. A pretty admirable feat all things considered. That alone would take a few months I think. It definitely shows Corran’s active attempts to draw the fine line between playing a role and sticking to his morals. This is even more important while rebuffing Tavira’s advances towards him, which we’ll see a lot later. Also, Corran is able to once again offer up a non-lethal (or at least minimally lethal) battle plan in light of the NR fleet that they run into. Can’t kill your friends while undercover, but still have to convince the pirates why not. And we find out Corran’s literally going to have to fight his friends: Rogue Squadron is joining the fight. -----signature----- But they won't let me dream to live or live to dream.
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RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 5/22 10:08am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	Wow, JediHobbit. These chapter reviews of yours are awesome. I like the Clutches. Is it just me, or are half the uglies made actually superior to the standard TIE fighter? the Clutches, Chir'daki, Chiss clawcraft... I'd rather fly them than the flying coffin any day of the week. -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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JediHobbit Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 5/22 12:12pm Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	only the Uglies Stackpole comes up with I think. Still, it's definitely better than that coffin from Wraith Squadron. -----signature----- But they won't let me dream to live or live to dream.
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MistrX Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 5/22 12:54pm Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	JediHobbit posted: This would have been a nice explanation for it, so now we just have to assume that Nejaa somehow gained the knowledge to attain this on his own. He was also invited on this final mission by a great man and hero of the Clone wars. I think this is very strong evidence that Desert Wind (named by scent later in the novel) is, in fact, Obi-Wan Kenobi. I never even thought of that. That's fantastic. JediHobbit posted: Rostek also makes a comment about how Jorj Car’das had taken up most of Booster’s network when Hal Horn sent him to Kessel, and Car’das’s network was in turn taken up by Karrde. A nice way to tie all the characters together and explain why they all have great intelligence networks and always seem to know what’s going on in the galaxy. But I also think MAS was sort of poking fun at Zahn a little bit. “Yeah, your two guys have great intelligence and smuggling networks, but they only have them ‘cause my guy got sent to Kessel by one of my other guys.” I'd forgotten about that little ref. Another little tie-in with HoT, something I appreciate more now that I know they collaborated on these stories. JediHobbit posted: Chapter 31: I love that Rostek Horn fits Corran with the Jenos Idanian ID that Han had used in the A. C. Crispin books. Furthermore, they think he was a real guy that just disappeared, making Han’s use of it that much sweeter. This is one of the reasons I love your reviews, JediHobbit. The trivia and continuity nods I would have never remembered that you pick up on. JediHobbit posted: Although Lando isn’t directly seen, we hear he’s bumping around on the EV, and Mara offers up her opinion on him (take that Lando/Mara shippers!). I guess not everyone can fall for his considerable charms. JediHobbit posted: I wonder how common this type of moral code is common throughout the galaxy? They're more what you'd call "guidelines", really. -----signature----- "The only thing more insane than falsehood is truth." We are well and truly forked.
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beccatoria Title: 181st Imperial Discussion Group host Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 5/22 1:36pm Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	JediHobbit posted: Lando isn’t directly seen, we hear he’s bumping around on the EV, and Mara offers up her opinion on him (take that Lando/Mara shippers!). You know, I've been reading BFC in preparation for the next 181st thread, and have been reminded quite how much I like Lando, but I never liked that 'ship, and do have to admit to getting a bit of a kick out of how effortlessly MAS and TZ retconned it. As to the rest of your comments, Corran's time with the Survivors is probably my favourite section of the book. The book breaks down into the first Jedi section and the second Cop section with a very short Both section at the end, and the Cop section is definitely my favourite. I think because instead of seeing Corran judging Luke (even though he's also learning a lot and being a read hero regarding Exar Kun), it's here that a lot of his more interesting moral quandries come up. Like you note, the great way he manages to come up with repeated plans to save people instead of killing them, and I appreciate that the book directly talks about what's permissable when undercover (basically damage to property but not loss of life). I see your point about him taking his sweet time, but to be honest there's an element of that that pervades the book (even though it's not entirely Corran's fault) and I guess I felt that with the Invids at least he was genuinely working on building trust while working towards a concrete goal rather than the more nebulous "When I'm a Jedi Knight maybe I'll be able to magically sense her!" (And again, I felt that his reasons for training as a Jedi were solid, but I also felt that it was more of an...odd delay and more counter-intuitive than getting out there and infiltrating.) Also, I loved the tiny details like never having driven a TIE when he had - and yeah, Striker, I'd fly pretty much ANYTHING before I got in one of those shieldless mass-produced cheap pieces of garbage! - and the fact that Booster couldn't get enough paint for his Star Destroyer. I think that actually had me laughing out loud. And oy, you would stop before the Rogue Squadron confrontation. That was - hands down - the most tense moment of the book for me. Also, I was really impressed by his plan to keep from having to confront them. I really was thinking, when I first read it - and I still remember after all these years - how the KRIFF is he going to get out of THIS ONE?! Look forward to your commentary on the battle itself! MistrX posted: They're more what you'd call "guidelines", really. -----signature----- legatus imperatoris britanniæ superior REMEMBER: YOUNG JEDI KNIGHTS 1 - 3 DISCUSSION STARTS IN OCTOBER! Han's a girl, so I got a Golden Ewok.
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Ris_jSarek Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 5/23 4:15am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	JediHobbit posted: Hearing the story of the Survivors’ formation, I’m pretty certain that MAS made it up so that he could use an established character (Jacob Nive) from an established pirate group, and not have to type Eyttyrmin Batiiv pirates all the time. While logical, he didn't have to; the Khuiumin Survivors were introduced in Galaxy Guide 9: Fragments from the Rim, as were the Thalassians and their ship, the Harmzuay. JediHobbit posted: I thought it was sort of interesting though that they had their own sort of moral code (attacks on Imperials, no insubordination or betraying comrades), since I always sort of picture space pirates as cutthroats and backstabbers. I sort of ignore Wraith Squadron as the Hawkbats, since they were just undercover and not a real pirate group. I wonder how common this type of moral code is common throughout the galaxy? They often are backstabbers, but not always: Pirates and Privateers, pg. 30 posted: Pirates are generally held to be vicious, vile thugs with no sense of decency or honor. In many cases, this is true. There is, however, a code of honor held among some pirates. Reaching back centuries, the adherence to and practice of this code ebbs and flows, but generally survives. Arvo Norstrag, the first Pirate King of the Phosphura Belt pirates, coined one of the more famous versions: Take only that which you have won in battle. Take not from allies. Take not from those who shield you. Respect and honor brother and sister pirates. Respect and honor their allegiances. Respect and honor those who fight against you. Relish in the taking of the prize. Relish not in destruction for destruction's sake. -----signature----- http://churchofbrad.com/jsarek/ Proud recipient of Halagad_Ventor's MOO (Master of Obscurity) Award, Brett_Bass's Spiffy Crown™, and Thrawn McEwok's "Ohh...? Interesting..." Award™
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JediHobbit Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 5/23 4:49am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	MistrX posted: This is one of the reasons I love your reviews, JediHobbit. The trivia and continuity nods I would have never remembered that you pick up on. I try, though I admit I don't remember nearly as much as some. But thanks. beccatoria posted: And oy, you would stop before the Rogue Squadron confrontation. That was - hands down - the most tense moment of the book for me. Also, I was really impressed by his plan to keep from having to confront them. I really was thinking, when I first read it - and I still remember after all these years - how the KRIFF is he going to get out of THIS ONE?! I'm not making you wait too long for it. Also, thanks for that info jSarek. I don't really do the RPG stuff, so I feel like I miss out on a bunch of random tidbits of info. So getting back into it, I realized I only posted half of my Chapter 36, so I'll finish that out and then get on with the regularly-scheduled next installment. Chapter 36 (cont.): A couple of goofs a noticed in this chapter: MAS refers to the Maw as a single black hole rather than a cluster. I’ll attribute that error to Corran just for the sake of my imperfect narrator theme. On a similar note, Corran mentions Daala still running around at this point. IIRC, Daala was believed dead at the end of the JAT, wasn’t she? It’s possible that in light of her resurfacing later on, Mr. Horn forgot that she was supposed to be dead during this time while writing his memoirs. Or it’s possible MAS just goofed. Also, some of the TIE pilots in the Invidious had red stripes on their flight uniforms, indicating they had flown with the 181st Imperial Fighter Group. Just how many of those guys are floating around, anyways? For an elite group, they seem to have guys falling in with every other pirate and Imperial warlord. Chapter 37: After giving Tycho a clever little warning through the Force (making a Clutch morph into an X-Wing), Corran gets into the thick of it. After taking a few ships down with his ion cannon, Corran attracts the attention of the Rogues. Like Corran put it, it’s nice to be seen as a worthy opponent, even if it might get you killed. Corran risks opening himself up to the Force to make it through the battle, and is able to rad Gavin enough to take him down fairly easily. I thought it was funny that he had so much trouble with Ooryl. I kind of like the idea that Ooryl may have at least subconsciously held back while flying against Corran in simulator runs. And then he has to take on the big dog, Rogue Leader himself, Tycho Celchu. Corran pretty much sums up the battle when he says that using the Force, he could barely survive Tycho, who’s doing it all on his own. The depth, complexity, and speed at which Tycho’s mind thinks left Corran literally flying for his life. Even then, Corran had to use a trick Tycho himself taught him to escape that final pair of proton torpedoes. Back on the Invidious, Corran prematurely rebuffs Tavira’s advances towards him, and we learn that she doesn’t like being anticipated like that. Corran gets a smack across the face and Sasyru gets the “position” instead. On the plus side, Corran gets moved to Bolt Squadron and voted the leader at the same time, so he’s that much closer to finding Mirax. He’d rather move up the food chain the old fashioned way. Chapter 38: Corran is able to figure out that because the New Republic was at Xa Fel for reasons other than the Invids, Tavira’s advisors were not able to sense any sort of threat to call off the raid. This gives both him and us the idea that while the use of the Force is likely at use here, it’s clearly not highly trained usage. However, they did sense someone using the Force during the battle, which is why everyone is getting questioned. When he gets pulled in, Corran senses the Force probes and is able to deflect them. On top of that, he gives Tavira a huge amount of misinformation to throw her off the scent and get her all riled up. He’s mixing up names of Rebel pilots (Skywalker, Darklighter, Starkiller), talking about the proton torpedoes at the Invidious in relation to the ones that killed the first Death Star. He also makes the connection between Luke and Rogue Squadron. And despite all his high and noble motivations, Corran gets called out on being jealous of Sasyru being selected by Tavira instead of him. It’s a natural human (and in my experience, primarily male) trait: no matter how good your own relationship is and how much you’re in love, you can’t help but want to feel attractive to as many people as possible. This just makes Corran that much more realistic and complex as a character. Nice job once again MAS. At least Corran is able to recognize and try to repress it. Chapter 39: With the raid of Kerilt, we get a brief history of Caamas and the Caamasi, which I thought was a nice way to introduce the species that are a fairly large part of this book (with Elegos) and Zahn’s Hand of Thrawn duology. Once again, we have some nice interaction between these two others, on projects that came out at roughly the same time, so to have ties between the books makes the GFFA that much more tangible and cohesive. I much prefer this over DR’s method of creating “big and epic” story lines that, IMO, do not do as good a job of telling a story and creating a fictional world. Rather, they just create plots and events and let the story unravel. But this isn’t the place for another of my rants on that matter. After the Invids take out the Thalassian slavers, we get the showdown between Corran and Sasyru. Corran basically takes him out, and does so with a pretty brutal beating. The one thing that really got me about the whole altercation was Corran’s slightly faulty logic on the matter. He gives the Caamasi jewelry back to Elegos, telling Sasyru that booty is put into a pool and equally divided among all the pirates. This serves as the basis of the reprimand, but then Corran claims that he’s taking Elegos as his own servant to prevent Sasyru from killing him. Didn’t he just tell the guy that there’s no special swag for anyone? I don’t really see how he can justify taking Elegos as essentially a slave for himself. At least Elegos can see through Corran’s cover to know he’s a good guy and insists on going with him to maintain his (Corran’s) story. Chapter 40: Corran is questioned about the events up on the Invidious, but counts on being able to present a plausible cover story to protect Elegos and his own hide, while making Remart look bad for “making up” a story about jewelry that apparently doesn’t exist. Also, Corran talks with Elegos and we discover the unique trait of Caamasi to create extremely potent memories for events they deem significant. Suddenly Elegos’ aiding Corran takes on a much more significant tone, especially when Elegos said he believed he had killed the other pilots rather than just stunning them. As Tavira storms into the room to tear Corran a new one, she congratulates Corran on making her kill Sasyru instead of finishing the job himself. This takes Corran off guard, because he didn’t want the guy dead, he just wanted to teach him a lesson. At first it kind of surprised me too (the first time I read the book), but after thinking about it, it doesn’t really surprise me either. Tavira has trouble comprehending that not everybody thinks in the same manner that she does, and that not everyone shares her ruthless sense of justice. Also, her ego makes her believe that “Jenos” is doing this all to get her attention and punish both her and Sasyru for her selecting him. Her inability to rationalize that other people don’t think necessarily think with the same sense of logic as she does will be her undoing, as we’ll later see. After giving “Jenos” his 1 month notice to becoming her consort, Corran begins to reflect on his recent behavior. Looking back at the beating he gave Sasyru, and the damage it did to his own hands, he realized that he subconsciously attacked Remart in such a way as to hurt himself too, because deep down he knew what he was doing was wrong. He begins to toy with the idea of using Tavira to get exactly what he wants, and almost rationalizes that being with her to get Mirax would be okay, when he realizes that his argument is based upon the ends justifying the means. This is one of the tell tale signs of dark side thinking, and he snaps himself out of the mindset. Elegos offers a variation on the Halcyon “man in the mirror” adage: “If the wind no longer calls to you, it is time to see if you have forgotten your name.” I thought this is just a very elegant saying, having more personal resonance than the "man in the mirror" (which I still love anyways). -----signature----- But they won't let me dream to live or live to dream.
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beccatoria Title: 181st Imperial Discussion Group host Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 5/24 7:19am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	Sarek! Thank you for the RPG material quotes! It's hard to get hold of that stuff and so I've never actually read most of it, but it's always fascinating to get a glimpse at the West End Games material. Makes me nostalgic for times when the Force Users didn't get the lion's share of EU material... JediHobbit posted: A couple of goofs a noticed in this chapter: MAS refers to the Maw as a single black hole rather than a cluster. I’ll attribute that error to Corran just for the sake of my imperfect narrator theme. On a similar note, Corran mentions Daala still running around at this point. IIRC, Daala was believed dead at the end of the JAT, wasn’t she? Good points. I think I'd attribute the black hole clusters as narrator error. It's a small mistake. But the Daala thing is amusing. To be honest it's been so long since I read JAT, I can't remember her assumed status at the end of the last novel, but I know that a year later she was up and about again for sure. But still, that would be after the end of I, Jedi. Perhaps NRI realised that she wasn't dead soon after her presumed death and before she started her rampage in Darksaber? But...honestly I have no idea if that works either since I think they play the "ZOMG! Daala's alive!" card in Darksaber don't they? Hmm. Eh, well. No biggie and it's kind of funny to chalk it up to Corran writing after the fact and forgetting her status at the time. JediHobbit posted: I kind of like the idea that Ooryl may have at least subconsciously held back while flying against Corran in simulator runs. And then he has to take on the big dog, Rogue Leader himself, Tycho Celchu. I loved that Ooryl got props for his flying skills. Being nonhuman and a more minor character he never really got the attention that Darklighter, Celchu, Antilles or Horn got and so it's easy to just assume he must be a second-string pilot too. But it's awesome to see that actually, he's just really polite. Also, Tycho being described as utterly amazing even compared to a souped-up Force-powered Corran was just awesome. It would have been easy to take the Force Sensitive > Non-Force Sensitive route here and I'm glad MAS didn't do that. TYCHO FOREVER!!! He needs to be in the EU more. JediHobbit posted: no matter how good your own relationship is and how much you’re in love, you can’t help but want to feel attractive to as many people as possible. This just makes Corran that much more realistic and complex as a character. Nice job once again MAS. At least Corran is able to recognize and try to repress it. I think I mentioned it before in this thread, but I found Corran's subconscious assumption that (and desire to have) all the women were sekritly attracted to him, or his constant comments on whether or not they were attractive, to be quite funny. The way MAS managed to write him as being aware of this tendency but...not always is actually a pretty subtle piece of writing and I think says a lot about Corran's character. JediHobbit posted: Corran basically takes him out, and does so with a pretty brutal beating. <snip> As Tavira storms into the room to tear Corran a new one, she congratulates Corran on making her kill Sasyru instead of finishing the job himself. This combined with his being unable to deny that he actually does want Tavira is probably the most chilling moment in the novel for me. But I think this moment probably wins out. Because while I believe Corran's shock and that he consciously didn't expect Sasyru to die, I also on some level believe Tavira. That he must have known how it would play out. The same way he hurt himself while beating Sasyru because he knew it was wrong. It's a really dark moment that's all the better because it sneaks into a moment where Corran is being a hero. It's great because it makes you think - it's not enough to save the innocent, you have to do it right or you fail to save yourself. You make a good point about taking Elegos as a servant though. The only think I can think of is that either he took Elegos in lieu of his share of the treasure (or equivalent value) or that a sentient doesn't count as "loot", and so all items of value get split, but if you can force a being to be your slave then that's...your business. Though of course that seems like a weird rule since then you'd expect side-businesses of slavery to jump up all over the place. But the only think I can think of is the idea that taking a servant is different to sneaking loot? JediHobbit posted: “If the wind no longer calls to you, it is time to see if you have forgotten your name.” I thought this is just a very elegant saying, having more personal resonance than the "man in the mirror" (which I still love anyways). I also really loved that saying. I thought it was beautiful. Alien enough to feel like it's from a different culture or species, but still recognisable for its meaning. -----signature----- legatus imperatoris britanniæ superior REMEMBER: YOUNG JEDI KNIGHTS 1 - 3 DISCUSSION STARTS IN OCTOBER! Han's a girl, so I got a Golden Ewok.
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s65horsey Title: EUC Manager SWC Lil' Sis Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 5/24 7:44am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	I apologize for not being able to participate. It was a bad time of the year for me. However, I really can only gush about this book so perhaps it was best that I just leave it at that. Corran and Stackpole rock! I really enjoyed the first person pov, I know some don't like that, but at the time it was decidedly different from how Star Wars was written so I enjoyed the uniqueness of it. (And that's not just because it was Corran). -----signature----- Sexy Sinre's Sey "Excellence, did you forget your 3P0 unit when you left Lit for Comms?" - dp4m "Me give up Cade's chappless butt? Only when they pry it from cold, dead hands. Wait, that didn't sound right. . . . " - John O
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beccatoria Title: 181st Imperial Discussion Group host Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 5/24 9:12am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	s65horsey posted: I apologize for not being able to participate. It was a bad time of the year for me. However, I really can only gush about this book so perhaps it was best that I just leave it at that. Corran and Stackpole rock! I really enjoyed the first person pov, I know some don't like that, but at the time it was decidedly different from how Star Wars was written so I enjoyed the uniqueness of it. (And that's not just because it was Corran). Better late than not at all, and thanks for giving your opinion! I think it's a shame it was a bad time of year for you just because threads are always better with you in them! However, I forgive you because I know you were doing important work such as graduating from the rank of Knight to Master. -----signature----- legatus imperatoris britanniæ superior REMEMBER: YOUNG JEDI KNIGHTS 1 - 3 DISCUSSION STARTS IN OCTOBER! Han's a girl, so I got a Golden Ewok.
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s65horsey Title: EUC Manager SWC Lil' Sis Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 5/24 9:16am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	beccatoria posted: Better late than not at all, and thanks for giving your opinion! I think it's a shame it was a bad time of year for you just because threads are always better with you in them! However, I forgive you because I know you were doing important work such as graduating from the rank of Knight to Master. giggles uncontrollably I hadn't thought of it like that before. Does that make me a bad SW fan? I won't be able to participate much in the next few until I can get my books back. I don't have BFC on me (it is in storage) and the rest of my books save SoA, and DNT (yeah I'm going to reread those) are heading into storage (most likely). I can't wait to figure out my future so I can have all my books in the same spot again!!!! Is this discussion group only for books? Or could we possibly discuss Dark Empire, for instance? -----signature----- Sexy Sinre's Sey "Excellence, did you forget your 3P0 unit when you left Lit for Comms?" - dp4m "Me give up Cade's chappless butt? Only when they pry it from cold, dead hands. Wait, that didn't sound right. . . . " - John O
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beccatoria Title: 181st Imperial Discussion Group host Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 5/24 9:40am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	s65horsey posted: giggles uncontrollably I hadn't thought of it like that before. Does that make me a bad SW fan? I won't be able to participate much in the next few until I can get my books back. I don't have BFC on me (it is in storage) and the rest of my books save SoA, and DNT (yeah I'm going to reread those) are heading into storage (most likely). I can't wait to figure out my future so I can have all my books in the same spot again!!!! Is this discussion group only for books? Or could we possibly discuss Dark Empire, for instance? No, I think it just makes me a massive geek. To be fair, I hadn't actually thought of it like that before either. We'll miss you, but I totally understand and good luck with that whole Bright Shiny Future thing! As to what we'll be discussing, no, it's not specifically for novels. It's basically for anything that tends to get overlooked, so for instance, we deliberately didn't start with TTT or JAT. Though of course we have to balanced overlooked with easily available. Most of the WEG short stories are overlooked, but they're also nearly impossible to get hold of! So that makes a lot of Bantam novels prime candidates. But if you check out the 181st HQ thread (should still be on the front page, because I just bumped it) you'll see people offering suggestions for what we should do once we've finished the BFC books. They range from more novels to young readers books to graphic novels to those Dark Forces computer game novella adaptations. So really, anything goes in principle. -----signature----- legatus imperatoris britanniæ superior REMEMBER: YOUNG JEDI KNIGHTS 1 - 3 DISCUSSION STARTS IN OCTOBER! Han's a girl, so I got a Golden Ewok.
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JediHobbit Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 5/27 6:28am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	Hope you (U.S.) guys all had a great Memorial Day weekend. Chapter 41: Thinking about how his environment has gradually infected and changed who he is, Corran comes to a central pillar of the Jedi ideology: evil flourishes when not opposed. Not only that, but selflessness is the epitome of good, while evil starts with selfish acts. By going undercover and merely allowing the pirates to continue their actions, he has allowed their evil gradually taint who he is. And while some of them are not bad people, such as Caet and Timmser, they also do nothing to stop the acts of evil, and are therefore aiding it. This revelation by Corran makes me wish that it is more often voiced when discussing how the Jedi work. It’s not just about protecting the weak from tyranny, or stopping wars; it’s about stopping even the smallest acts of evil than can affect even the most unimportant person in the galaxy. While discussing this with Elegos, I see that Corran has once again gotten himself another alien sidekick. Somebody to confide in and offer another point of view. And to keep Corran in line every once and a while. And during it all, Corran realizes the balance for he’s been striving for the entire novel: he’s not just a CorSec agent, or a Rogue, or a Jedi. He’s all of those things. He is the sum of his parts, each with its own strength and weaknesses, but with the ability to compliment each other. And Elegos drops the bomb that Corran’s grandfather would agree. Chapter 42: Elegos informs Corran that the special memories Caamasi can create, (memnii), can be shared with those closest to them. Jedi are special in that they allow Caamasi to share the memnii with someone other than fellow Caamasi, and that Elegos’ uncle Ylenic was close friends with Nejaa Halcyon. This definitely helps explain why Elegos was so forthcoming and trusting of Corran from the beginning, when Corran should have been nothing more than a pirate that beat the crap out of an insubordinate. And now we get into the best part of the whole book: Corran kicking butt as a Jedi. As a superhero taking out evil, one bit at a time. I really wish this part was longer, and I’d probably kill to get more books like this with other Jedi. Once back on Courkrus, Corran and Elegos begin to devise a plan for taking out the Invids with the month he has left. He discovers that Rostek was a few steps ahead of him and hid a bunch of Jedi info in the botanical journals he sent along with Corran (“thanks grandpa!”). He starts doing recon work on all the different gangs and pirate groups on the planet. He builds his own lightsaber, and I thought this part was written very well. As he pieces the various parts together, using the Force to fuse them together, changing and growing together, he too grows and changes on the inside. He truly becomes a Jedi and fuses the various aspects of personality into one strong, unified sense of purpose. I thought it pretty interesting that the process of making a lightsaber is supposed to last about a month to allow for this to happen more naturally and fully. I think that the importance of building a lightsaber has sort of been forgotten about in the EU, and I’d kind of like to see it back. When he awakes from the lightsaber trance, Elegos has created Corran his own black and green Jedi robes to unify his CorSec and Jedi heritages. Classic. Chapter 43: Corran decides to take advantage of the superstitious nature of most spacers (which we don’t hear about that often). He targets Jacob Nive to start, and gives him a nice ghost visitation from the ex-Imp captain that they had spaced. He tells Nive that doom is coming to Courkrus, and Nive (with a little help from a “drunk” Jenos) creates a big scene. Within a couple days the story has grown exponentially, and Corran is feeling good about his plan thus far. Once again, I love love love Corran walking through the streets of Vlarnya and protecting the helpless indigs from the big bad Invids. This is totally what I had wished the New Jedi Order books would have been: new Jedi going out into the galaxy and taking care of business. Chapter 44: Corran mentions that his plan is working so well in part because the Empire was so active in demonizing the Jedi, turning them into “agents of terror” as opposed to the heroes they really were. I thought that was interesting, but it sort of made sense. I just assumed that Palpatine tried to just erase them from the galactic memory. Turn them into religious kooks that disappeared because their “simple tricks and nonsense” couldn’t hold up during the Clone Wars. Corran does a quick and efficient job of taking down the Fastblasters and Blackstars, and gets the challenge from Shala. He’s getting called out, and has no choice except to walk into the trap he knows is waiting for him. But being Corran, he does it, despite all advice saying contrary. After finding out the place is rigged to blow, he’s able to determine that Shala got shafted by his demolitions guy, so the threat to the neighborhood is (largely) gone, but he still has to get himself out. He surprises even us, twisting the handle and making the saber double in length to chop up Shala’s remote detonator, and then Corran gets a surprise of his own: his attempt to copy Gantoris literally goes up in a puff of smoke as the lightsaber blade just goes out. Not only that, but in his surprise, Shala drops the remote and the fireworks go off. Corran uses every ounce of Force energy in him to absorb the energy from the explosions and protect his body, but to keep from frying himself with all that Force energy, he has to use it somehow. So he controls the explosions, causing it to stay inward and shoot upward in a column of fire. As the explosions begin to die, he sends a vision out to essentially everyone in the city: the column of fire is a lightsaber coming from his hand. If that doesn’t scare them all, nothing will. What a great way to get a message across to people. And is if this great act of heroism isn’t enough, we get a good dose of humor to boot. Naked Corran, weak from the ordeal, has to make it through the city and get back to his apartment. And of course he gets spotted in the only alley that has a working street light. Good thing his lightsaber looks like a speeder bike throttle and Elegos comes to his rescue. The lucky ladies that spot or clothing-challenged hero think that he just got drunk and crashed his speeder. Quick thinking Elegos. Chapter 45: The longer ‘saber blade failed because the diamond in the hilt wasn’t a diamond, it was a Kubaz xurconia (love it!). Corran admits that going after Shala was a mistake, and that his ego got in the way a little bit. I thought it was great that civilians of Courkrus are inspired by Corran’s actions and start hunting down Invids themselves. I thought it was nice touch that they finally worked up the nerve to fight back against these people oppressing and abusing them. They just needed a little Jedi inspiration. Also, Timmser and Caet stole the hyperdrive equipped clutches that Corran was training them on. A little on the convenient side, but at least he doesn’t have to take down the halfway decent people that he’s befriended. I also thought naming the incident the Great Hutt Roast and the subsequent looting the Fire Sale were a nice touch of dark humor, totally in keeping with the pirate mentality. I thought it was pretty funny that Tavira gets ticked at “Jenos” for not rallying the Invids to fight the Jedi instead of just being glad he’s okay. She definitely demands a lot form her consorts. Her paranoia and delusions of grandeur totally come to light. She decides that the Jedi is Hero of the Galaxy, Luke Skywalker himself. Not only that, but the Sun Crusher is secretly hidden somewhere waiting to be used against her. She’s the New Republic’s greatest threat, why wouldn’t they use their greatest weapons against her? So Corran, does what’s expected of him and starts to rally the remaining Invids to fight the Jedi. All the while, he’s trying to determine how to fake his own death by the Jedi’s hand so as to completely and utterly destroy the pirates’ morale. He appears at The Crash in his Jedi garb, quite literally looking for himself ( ), and then makes a grand exit. He’s confronted by a group of individuals, finds out his illusions don’t work on them, and then finds out why: they’ve got lightsabers! Not only that, but in a multitude of colors! What a great way to bring the Jensaarai into the mix. He should have figured that Tavira wouldn’t expect a bunch of pirates to take down Skywalker. She needed some way to hedge her bets, and she’s got her own Force-trained troops to take him head-on. -----signature----- But they won't let me dream to live or live to dream.
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Jedi_Master_Luc Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 5/27 7:16am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi!
	Goodness, Hobbit likes to type! I was a little surprised to see a book published in 1998 being discussed today! Wow, that's ten years ago already! HA! I remember I, Jedi, and after reading some of this thread, i think i might just go and re-read it. I liked it alot. The X-Wing series was kind of what got me started in the EU in a "serious" way. After reading through all those books, it was nice to see Corran's character move on not only to his own AWESOME adventure, but being incorporated into Luke's first Jedi class. I also very thoroughly enjoyed the homemade lightsaber out of a speeder handle and the Jedi detective work he does. The only thing i didn't like much at all was the fact that it was written in the first person. I have never been one for those types of books with the exception of Dracula. Even then i didn't overly enjoy the method, but the story was so good! I recently read the whole X-Wing Rogue Squadron comics (thank you Omnibus) and i had to chuckle a bit when Mirax, then Corran and Iella showed up. Also that final line of Wedge's about how Corran wasn't ready yet to become a Rogue but maybe someday he would be. I love how it all (usually) comes together. Master Luc -----signature----- "One Hat to rule them all, One Hat to find them, One Hat to bring them all and in the downpour dry them." ^^^Inscription on the headband of the One Hat of Master K'Kruhk^^^
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lazykbys_left Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 5/27 7:40am Subject: RE: The 181st Imperial Discussion Group: I, Jedi! [leading by example]
	JediHobbit posted: I thought it was great that civilians of Courkrus are inspired by Corran's actions and start hunting down Invids themselves. I thought it was nice touch that they finally worked up the nerve to fight back against these people oppressing and abusing them. They just needed a little Jedi inspiration. I would argue that Corran's heroics are of little worth by themselves if they didn't inspire others. Since you can't realistically have the Jedi righting every single wrong (BTW, someone stole my pen ) they need to lead by example. To me, that's more important than any amount of pwnage. 'Course, being able to kick seven kinds of butt helps a lot to further this goal. - lazy -----signature----- "You're like some kind of link machine." - rhonderoo It didn't stop being magic just because you found out how it was done. DARK SIDE FHTAGN lazykbys fanfic index (click and scroll dowwwn): http://boards.theforce.net/m/b1/17609715/r17736763
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