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Topic:
'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Furyan_Jedi_13
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
5/9 7:34am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Nah, it's just the whole shipping debate being used in line with the whole "Force-sensitive Fels with a daughter named Marasiah" issue that makes me sick.
And I don't actually get sick. It was merely a figure of speech.
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rhonderoo
Title:
Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/9 8:13am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
- Date Edited:
5/9 8:33am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
rhonderoo
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dizfactor posted:
...For some time now, DHC has been doing the bulk of the heavy lifting when it comes to actually expanding the "Expanded" Universe, as opposed to just milking the Luke Skywalker cash cow, and it's starting to pay off big time in projects like KOTOR. No, the comics don't get as many eyeballs as the novels, but I would argue that they have been having a lot more impact on the shape of the EU.
The Force Unleashed, the Clone Wars animated series, and the live-action series (if that happens) are also going to be much bigger than the novels and are going to continue to move the franchise's center of gravity away from the continuing adventures of the Big Three post-ROTJ.
QFT
The novels have been disappointing to me on the whole, and I've moved towards the comics and it's actually drew me back to SW EU. I don't have to have the big 3 to call it Star Wars. I'm fine with a good story with good characters set in the GFFA, with no relation or having ever even heard of a Skywalker or Solo. I enjoyed the Fett stuff in LOTF, as well as the expanding role of Ben simply because it was something different, something we didn't see as much of before or something that provided good backstories for things we already knew (like Republic, Rebellion and Dark Times), and didn't necessarily leave behind the SW feel, like the KOTOR and Legacy comics (along with those mentioned above) do, only with WAY more consistency.
I would love to see more Vader in Dark Times, though! 
And to the point of sales, movies strive for more screen presence when they want the blockbuster money (if the theaters will agree, which means some trust in the sales of the flick - see AOTC vs. Spiderman in 2002 - it bit into the sales pretty heavily in the first two weeks). The fact of the matter in marketing is getting it out there in people's line of sight.
You can pick up a SW paperback at Wal-Mart, the grocery store, not to mention the Borders or B&N that's on every street corner these days. Comics, esp trade paperbacks are just starting to get that exposure. The local B&N here has just added the TPB and Comic section, due to demand they say. It's a segment earlier more exposed through comic book stores, which let's face it, are random in cities and have nowhere near the marketing potential as bigger name stores.
(Although I still go to the small comic stores just to keep them in business.)
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DT421 
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DancinBrud
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
5/9 2:22pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Jedi Ben posted:
I can say with a good amount of certainty that Legacy has managed to break out of just appealing to SW fans only and has instead penetrated the wider comics market, people who were not previously buying any SW comics are buying Legacy and they're sticking with it too!
From personal experience, I have to agree with this. I'm always able convince comics-reading friends to check out my TPBs of Legacy, and they almost always like it. It helps that John is a respected writer in "mainstream" comics. I haven't ever heard of anyone who didn't love his old Suicide Squad series for DC.
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TuskenTommy
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
6/1 7:18pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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SuperSaiyaMan12 posted:
I'd like to see what the general opinion of the time era of the Legacy Comics is. Should it have been placed even earlier after LOTF, or later, instead of 100 years in the future to 1000 years in the future? Opinions?
-1000 YEARS! Look how it's altering, or effecting our current story arc..
-1- They writers & Sue are just cruisng htrough the years & all that's happening with that is our heroe's are getting old. What's the rush? Legacy era!
-2-Rushing years aside--We know what Luke said at the end of Invincible about the Remnant(spoiler free), so the fact that Luke's NJO is transforming into the Legacy era is not a positive if it effects our current storyline.........
___________________________________________________
--I posted this in a EU RE-boot thread- But the next series needs to happen 1 week after the last page of Invincible and only 3-9 months should take place in that whole storyline /arc etc..
What are they gonna do when it's time for the BIG THREE to die? Will the books be as coveted from the casual readers? You know, the ones who don't post about them every day omn the internet.. IMO The story of Imp Knights over here & Post Luke & his order over there etc, Is that gonna be enough to getthe sales they want at book stores? I hope so for my #1 hobby's sake....
--fyi--legacy is now in my box at m,y local shop. Now i get all SW titles.. Reason fior mentioning--Because i'm not a Legacy hater as far as the storyline. So put me down on that list of 1000 years over 100...
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Jek_Windu
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
6/1 8:44pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Lord_Riven posted:
The lack of "grand scheme" in the background creates a 'limit' on what characters you guys can use.
Should there be a super, overarching grand scheme? DR had grand schemes for NJO and LOTF, and neither of those series have even come close to the level of fan praise that Legacy has received thus far.
Also, Legacy is perfectly set. Part of the fun is seeing things that are just different from what we've seen before, and following those lines of difference. Take Cade, for example. He's exactly like Luke- except for the fact that he choose to run from that "larger world" rather than embrace it. From that one, relatively slight difference, we get the potential for an amazingly well-drawn character.
To people who lord novels over comics: Ask yourself one question, just one. Do you honestly think Jacen's decision to become a Sith was as well-constructed and well-written as Cade's decision to reject Krayt?
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Tryanids: You don't have enough bullets! Imperial Guard: YES WE DO! R.I.P. Trini 
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
6/1 9:34pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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I think there is an issue where they're stepping on each others' toes right now - but I think that's mostly Del Rey's issue, because they seem to be in a very big rush towards the future. While admittedly much of the post-ROTJ era went just as fast, now that the characters are aging it seems a waste to spend time quite so frivolously.
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Robimus
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
6/1 9:47pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Jek_Windu posted:
To people who lord novels over comics: Ask yourself one question, just one. Do you honestly think Jacen's decision to become a Sith was as well-constructed and well-written as Cade's decision to reject Krayt?
Jacen Solo is an incredibly complex character who's had his fall laid out over almost 30 novels, ever since Vergere first sunk her beak into him. The one disadvantage his story has is that he's been portrayed by so many different authors that sometimes his story got a bit muddled.
But, yes his decision to become a Sith was well constructed in my opinion. Jacen is a character who sought out every possible use and interpretation of the Force in his life. Having learned all he could his natural progression would be to move toward and learn Sith techniques thinking he could control himself, only to fail. Learning about the Force always seemed to have very little to do with the Jedi for Jacen Solo. Would his story have been a little more together if written only by Denning? Probably, though I think both Allston and Traviss added to his character in a good way as well.
Legacy is too close to the novels for me. Its kinda forced events like shoehorning the Fel's into the Imperial Remnant and this whole is Vergere a Sith or not sillyness. Emporer Fel really was a good idea I think but forced upon us a bit too quickly. Vergere was a character Legacy has nothing to do with and should have just left her alone instead of trying to retcon the entire NJO series.
Can you see why a fan who's enjoyed and invested emotion in the NJO series could be upset with a comic trying to fundamentally change a large portion of that said series for one or two pages of minor backstory. I don't want Legacy using Vergere any more than I would want DelRey messing with Cade. I would certainly read a novel about Cade, or a comic about Vergere, but only if incredible caution and respect was used to protect what had come before. Retcon's are fine and sometimes needed but should never be forced just because author x feels like changing the backstory, in my opinion. 
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I am forever seeking the damutek of Hooley Krekk
Oh, woe! Oh, misery! Oh, unhappiness. Hooley Krekk where are you?
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Solus
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
6/1 9:55pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Jek_Windu posted:
Lord_Riven posted:
The lack of "grand scheme" in the background creates a 'limit' on what characters you guys can use.
Should there be a super, overarching grand scheme? DR had grand schemes for NJO and LOTF, and neither of those series have even come close to the level of fan praise that Legacy has received thus far.
Also, Legacy is perfectly set. Part of the fun is seeing things that are just different from what we've seen before, and following those lines of difference. Take Cade, for example. He's exactly like Luke- except for the fact that he choose to run from that "larger world" rather than embrace it. From that one, relatively slight difference, we get the potential for an amazingly well-drawn character.
To people who lord novels over comics: Ask yourself one question, just one. Do you honestly think Jacen's decision to become a Sith was as well-constructed and well-written as Cade's decision to reject Krayt?
No, but I think Banes tale is better as a novel than as a comic and I think the same would hold true for Legacy. Del rey can produce some amazing novels, they just can't come up with amazing ideas. This would make a Legacy novel perfect because Del Rey would have their hands tied (look what happened when they weren't).
I'm not sure wether or not Legacy should have been set later. As long as Del Rey makes good novels to bring the pieces together it should fit, which as I said, will work because their hands are tied.
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Bob Barr 2008
If you love freedom then research Bob Barr
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Lord_Riven
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/2 3:54am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
- Date Edited:
6/2 3:56am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lord_Riven
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Jek_Windu posted:
Lord_Riven posted:
The lack of "grand scheme" in the background creates a 'limit' on what characters you guys can use.
Should there be a super, overarching grand scheme? DR had grand schemes for NJO and LOTF, and neither of those series have even come close to the level of fan praise that Legacy has received thus far.
Yes, I don't mean a grand scheme like NJO or LOTF. I mean a sort of working background as to what's going on, what the future upcoming major plot arcs will be. Some sort of cohesive planned timeline spanning chronologically into the future so that we can avoid things like not having post-ROTJ characters in Legacy because DR are suddenly using them and DH can't touch them. It's not like DR is using every single post-ROTJ character...and it is entirely possible that certain species could survive the LOTF-->Legacy gap easily.
This would also avoid messy retcons like Vergere=Sith.
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Legacy AU fic: Family Ties. Follow the link in the next line. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3751906/1/Star_Wars_Legacy_Family_Ties Casiah - Cade Skywalker x Marasiah Fel 'shipper (#1) Canderous >>> Boba Fett
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Jan_Duursema
Title: Comic Artist:
-AOTC
-Legacy
-Republic
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
6/2 5:53am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Legacy and Vergere a retcon? Consider this--in Legacy, the only information we get about Vergere is from Darth Krayt's point of view--a Sith Lord's point of view. Krayt has an agenda. He is telling his story to Cade Skywalker in order to seduce him to the dark side. Would you consider a tale told by a dark lord of the Sith to be the absolute truth?
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
6/2 6:00am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Jan_Duursema posted:
Legacy and Vergere a retcon? Consider this--in Legacy, the only information we get about Vergere is from Darth Krayt's point of view--a Sith Lord's point of view. Krayt has an agenda. He is telling his story to Cade Skywalker in order to seduce him to the dark side. Would you consider a tale told by a dark lord of the Sith to be the absolute truth?
Unless for some reason Krayt is in league with keeping up Lumiya's lies...then absolutely I believe it. We now have 2 different agendas telling us the same story. And since Vegere means something different to Krayt then she did to Jacen, and yet the same scenario plays...?
The same story from two camps who did not see eye to eye. 
This ambiguity can't play out much longer.
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GO SEE "THE DARK KNIGHT"
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
6/2 7:46am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Jedimarine posted:
Jan_Duursema posted:
Legacy and Vergere a retcon? Consider this--in Legacy, the only information we get about Vergere is from Darth Krayt's point of view--a Sith Lord's point of view. Krayt has an agenda. He is telling his story to Cade Skywalker in order to seduce him to the dark side. Would you consider a tale told by a dark lord of the Sith to be the absolute truth?
Unless for some reason Krayt is in league with keeping up Lumiya's lies...then absolutely I believe it. We now have 2 different agendas telling us the same story. And since Vegere means something different to Krayt then she did to Jacen, and yet the same scenario plays...?
The same story from two camps who did not see eye to eye.
This ambiguity can't play out much longer.
Agreed.
However, while Vergere = Sith was a retcon, and it was a retcon I dislike intensely, I mostly blame DR for it, not Jan and John. They were just following LotF's lead there.
Unfortunately, because they chose to back DR on that issue, it's pretty much impossible now to say that Lumiya was just lying about Vergere, because Krayt really has no conceivable reason to back Lumiya's lie about things that were really only relevant a century ago anyway.
So, yes, the LotF team went in a direction I didn't agree with, and Jan and John essentially closed the door on being able to wiggle out of it as a CPOV issue.
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MistrX
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
6/2 10:27am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Jan_Duursema posted:
Legacy and Vergere a retcon? Consider this--in Legacy, the only information we get about Vergere is from Darth Krayt's point of view--a Sith Lord's point of view. Krayt has an agenda. He is telling his story to Cade Skywalker in order to seduce him to the dark side. Would you consider a tale told by a dark lord of the Sith to be the absolute truth?
And even Krayt points out that she's a big ol' liar.
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"The only thing more insane than falsehood is truth."
We are well and truly forked.
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Jek_Windu
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
6/2 10:47am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Yeah, John and Jan's decision to go along with Vergere's ambiguity actually helps to prove that Legacy is not shoe-horning anything. DR made a decision about a character, a decision John and Jan probably had no idea about when they designed Krayt- and yet the two wove the new information into their story so well that it came off as their choice. Blaming them for the Vergere revelation is a little backwards. Betrayal came out long before Claws of the Dragon, and was probably in the planning phase before Cade was a glimmer in Ostrander's eye. Del Rey choose to make Vergere into a Sith, and in all likelihood had that planned from at least Traitor. Saying it was all a retcon perpetrated by John and Jan is really just wishful thinking.
Robimus posted:
But, yes his decision to become a Sith was well constructed in my opinion. Jacen is a character who sought out every possible use and interpretation of the Force in his life. Having learned all he could his natural progression would be to move toward and learn Sith techniques thinking he could control himself, only to fail. Learning about the Force always seemed to have very little to do with the Jedi for Jacen Solo. Would his story have been a little more together if written only by Denning? Probably, though I think both Allston and Traviss added to his character in a good way as well.
I can certainly see where you're coming from with that, but I have to disagree- Jacen's fall had a very shaky foundation built on a relatively small moment in his canon (Traitor) rather than his overall arc at the time (YJK-Star By Star). The foundation of Jacen's character was the YJK series. It was the first time fans were exposed to him sans the Big Three, and may even have been their first time exposed to him at all (in fact, Shards of Alderann was the first Star Wars novel I ever read). In NJO, a mere six months after YJK, gave Jacen's psyche a complete 180 that destroyed most of that foundation. However, one thing survived very much intact: Jacen's clear understanding of his personal limitations. For half of NJO, he was so cautious of the Dark Side that he nearly allowed Leia to die rather than risk falling. And yet, by the time of Betrayal, he joins the Sith at the drop of a hat and never looks back. There was never any internal conflict with Jacen- the closest he ever came was his agony over the thought of killing Tenel Ka and Allana, and even that never once made him think of tuning back. I fully agree that Jacen is probably the most complex character in Star Wars- which is why DR's fumbling with him in LOTF is all the most disappointing.
Then you turn and look at Cade, and everything about his near-Fall was internal conflict, an internal conflict that has continued well past Claws of the Dragon with no end in sight.
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Tryanids: You don't have enough bullets! Imperial Guard: YES WE DO! R.I.P. Trini
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
6/2 10:51am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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The Solo kids had plenty of solo time in the Corellian trilogy, actually.
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