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Topic:
'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Volderon
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
7/2 2:56pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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They definately made this series way too close to the books. It's as if everything Luke's Jedi Order did was for nothing. Might as well not even read LOTF because it all goes down the drain anyways. That being said, I love the story of Legacy and hope it keeps surprising me.
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Battlehymn_Republic
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
7/2 4:14pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Why, it's almost as if you didn't read a single post in this thread!
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Robimus
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
7/2 11:27pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Volderon:
They definately made this series way too close to the books. It's as if everything Luke's Jedi Order did was for nothing. Might as well not even read LOTF because it all goes down the drain anyways. That being said, I love the story of Legacy and hope it keeps surprising me.
Battlehymn_Republic posted:
Why, it's almost as if you didn't read a single post in this thread!
Some of us simply feel it is too close  . Accept and move on, we're all entitled to our opinions. That said I too am enjoying Legacy, but still think it would have worked better a couple hundred years later  . Still the idea's are brilliant, the story and characters are very interesting.
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Jek_Windu
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
7/3 11:35am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but this is a debate thread and most of the arguments for it being too soon are not very well thought-out. People arguing that it's just right actually put up arguments and give reasons for their views; most people saying that it's too soon say only "it invalidates Luke"- a point that has been thoroughly refuted multiple times.
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Whizkid
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
7/3 3:07pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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jfostrander01 posted:
What we do and fail to do in our time is not the fault of our forefathers, it is the result of our own choice.
It is a combination of what our forefathers chose then and what we choose now.
For example, you can't totally blame the current world leaders for the mess in the Middle East. It was born out of decisions that go back all the way to WWI. You can't solely blame Big 4 and their decisions at the Paris Peace Conference either. Both generations of leaders (and every other generation in between) share some of the blame.
In terms of Legacy, I think it is very fair to partially blame Luke for overlooking Korriban and letting the Sith rise again. It doesn't bother me personally and I still love Legacy in spite of it, but I can see why Luke fans are upset by it and why they dislike the placement of Legacy.
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/3 4:33pm
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Eh...I think Legacy is unfairly getting the blame for the dysfunction the novels, but there is a huge issue. The problem is that Luke's become something of a Paul von Hindenburg in his own time(national hero in WWI, presided over dysfunctional Weimar government that eventually collapsed into evil). Is that realistic? Maybe. Is it a good "ending to the story"? No.
The story matters. Especially for someone like Luke Skywalker.
Legacy seems to be built on the assumption that Luke had a positive legacy. If he ends up not having one (it's still up in the air!) the feel of it becomes far far more morose.
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Robimus
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
7/4 12:40am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Jek_Windu posted:
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but this is a debate thread and most of the arguments for it being too soon are not very well thought-out. People arguing that it's just right actually put up arguments and give reasons for their views; most people saying that it's too soon say only "it invalidates Luke"- a point that has been thoroughly refuted multiple times.
Simply it has put too many restraints on where the "novel" universe could go and what its future would be. Luke's been invalidated before, he'll be alright  . Dark Empire comes to mind, but if Luke is invalidated or not is simply a matter of opinion. Not written fact.
Are there still stories to tell, yes. But we simply know what the immediate future is at this point. The One Sith have already been interloping in LOTF. The power vacuum in the Imperial Remnant created by Pellaeon's death was already resolved by the obvious need to tie in the Fel's. At some point the Jedi splinter in some fashion, and the IK's are formed. Its simply made the novels a bit less surprising and I don't feel that is a good thing. What made KOTOR great was that it has its own room to play with, Legacy would have been better with a similar space to play in.
Most of the arguements I've read for why its not too close kinda move toward "I don't like the novels so its OK to box their story in". I admittedly have not read this whole thread but this discussion has come up many times in the past year. And that too is fair, but does not invalidate how anyone feels.
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Jan_Duursema
Title: Comic Artist:
-AOTC
-Legacy
-Republic
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
7/4 6:53am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Boxed in? Having worked on a couple years worth of Star Wars stories that took place between Episodes 2 and 3--a mere 3 year span--I never felt like the stories we told were 'boxed in' by events we all knew were inevitable. Instead, I always felt that the Clone Wars was a time rife with possibility. There are still thousands of untold stories within that timespan.
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CoppiceThorne
Registered:
Jun '08
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Date Posted:
7/4 7:15am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
- Date Edited:
7/4 8:41am (4 edits total)
Edited By:
CoppiceThorne
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I love the Legacy comics -- the characters, and everything about them are perfect to my mind. My only concern is: as a loving reader of novels, it could end up occurring that no novels will be made to cover that entire time period, with all of Legacy's main characters. I like to see such important main characters in novel format. I can see how it may not be possible, and it's highly likely that it may not be desired by people in the main. But I know I'd be disappointed. I don't really want a hole in the centre (novel-wise), where the novels stop, Legacy begins, Legacy ends, and then the novels start up again. Call it a paradox -- as it is not the fault of the Legacy comics, how could it, as I love what they have brought to Star Wars, but at the same time...there is an element in novels that doesn't occur in comics, and vice versa. I just wish there could be both comics and novels of the same period. That might not be popular...but it's just a lonely wish of mine. *Starts crying due to not being able to read about Roan Fel in prose format*
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Winged_Jedi
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
7/4 7:52am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Jan_Duursema posted:
Boxed in? Having worked on a couple years worth of Star Wars stories that took place between Episodes 2 and 3--a mere 3 year span--I never felt like the stories we told were 'boxed in' by events we all knew were inevitable. Instead, I always felt that the Clone Wars was a time rife with possibility. There are still thousands of untold stories within that timespan.
Well exactly. It strikes me that this whole 'boxed in' complaint is only made about the Legacy era, when we have had several similar situations.
When each of the Prequels came out, we already knew what the future would be just a few decades later. And yet each of the films was full of surprises.
The ROTS-ANH gap is only twenty years, with two entire film trilogies on either side. And yet this era is only just beginning to be explored with The Force Unleashed and the future live action series.
The KOTOR comics have TOTJ on one side and the two games on the other. And yet Zayne's story has been fresh and original, with plenty of twists, mystery and some fine storytelling.
There's almost a hundred years to go before the Legacy-era novels catch up with the Legacy-era comics. A lot can happen in a Star Wars century.
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
7/4 8:21am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Winged Jedi:
There's almost a hundred years to go before the Legacy-era novels catch up with the Legacy-era comics. A lot can happen in a Star Wars century.
The problem is that there are no longer infinite possibilities of what can happen in the future post LotF. There is no longer a limitless future. No matter what happens in the novels, we know the galaxy is going to be a mess in 90 or so years. We already know for a fact that the possibility of a bright and stable future for the galaxy is now gone. We already know that the One Sith exist and whether they just bide their time in the background or whether they show themselves and cause problems now and then, there really is no true peace. There is a danger lurking.
Before Legacy, there was the possibility that the Sith had been eliminated once and for all. Now, they seem to be around in greater numbers than ever before. Before Legacy, there was the possibility of having a relative period of peace that lasted as long as the relatively peaceful time of the Old Republic (a thousand years!), and that would have been a great tribute to the efforts of the OT characters and their colleagues. Now it's like their entire lives have been constant struggles and for no gain. That's disappointing. These iconic characters should have left a wonderful legacy. We now know that they won't.
As far as Luke is concerned, his Order will be purged in about 90 years. And in the future novels, if Luke doesn't find out about the One Sith, he will look foolish. Where are his great abilities to sense problems? Where are his visions of great darkness? If, on the other hand, he DOES find out about the One Sith, he will obviously either be defeated by them or, at least, fail to deal with them effectively. Either way, Luke will look really bad. And since he hasn't been written very well in most of the NJO, DN, and LotF, this will be yet another thing to damage a once-great character.
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jfostrander01
Title: Writer:
-Legacy
-Republic
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
7/4 9:17am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Luke IS a great character and will REMAIN a great character. If the One Sith appear in any form in the novels, it will be because the novelists put them there. Otherwise, they will continue quietly undercover until they emerge in the LEGACY comics era. Palpatine worked right under the noses of Mace Windu and Yoda, Jedi masters of great training and ability. No one was looking for the Sith so no Sith were detected. Are we saying Luke is greater than Yoda?
Luke's future and legacy is not going to remain in peace so long as more stories are being told. Whether LEGACY existed or not, new crises were going to develop -- look at the Vong and then the Civil War in the LotF books. The Jedi Order in Cade's time has taken a hit but is nowhere as near as decimated as with Order 66.
These are all points made before and some folks are just going to see, to FEEL, things differently. I respect their views and their feelings without sharing them. We have nothing but respect for Luke over in LEGACY. Cade has his points in respect to Luke but -- Luke's right, Cade's not. It's just that Cade is never going to be Luke.
-- John
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jfostrander01
Title: Writer:
-Legacy
-Republic
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
7/4 9:25am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Whizkid posted:
jfostrander01 posted:
What we do and fail to do in our time is not the fault of our forefathers, it is the result of our own choice.
It is a combination of what our forefathers chose then and what we choose now.
For example, you can't totally blame the current world leaders for the mess in the Middle East. It was born out of decisions that go back all the way to WWI. You can't solely blame Big 4 and their decisions at the Paris Peace Conference either. Both generations of leaders (and every other generation in between) share some of the blame.
In terms of Legacy, I think it is very fair to partially blame Luke for overlooking Korriban and letting the Sith rise again. It doesn't bother me personally and I still love Legacy in spite of it, but I can see why Luke fans are upset by it and why they dislike the placement of Legacy.
Good points made. Certainly, the seeds of WW2 were sown in the punishing terms for peace that ended WW1. And, as you say, he current state of the Mideast date back to the divisions created back after WW1 as well.
RE: Korriban. Krayt was determined the Sith would hide until it was time to emrge and an opportunity presented itself. You could argue that he couldn't have waited much longer than he did without risking discovery -- their numbers had grown too large by then. Even in the days of LotF, their numbers would have been comparatively few. Alema didn't find them until she was vitually on top of them and she was LOOKING.
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Robimus
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
7/4 10:00am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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Jan_Duursema posted:
Boxed in? Having worked on a couple years worth of Star Wars stories that took place between Episodes 2 and 3--a mere 3 year span--I never felt like the stories we told were 'boxed in' by events we all knew were inevitable. Instead, I always felt that the Clone Wars was a time rife with possibility. There are still thousands of untold stories within that timespan.
To be fair to Darkhorse I did have the exact same feeling with the Prequels. Do I still enjoy the stories, of course, but some facet of the surprise and unknown was taken away by the prequels. I could never look at Jake Lloyd's Anakin Skywalker and think he was going to have a nice life. I knew the end game going in. In comparison when watching Return of the Jedi back in the day I really was concerned that Han, Lando, Wedge and the gang might not make it through the film. There was the thrill of the complete unknown.
Legacy is far less "boxed in" than the Clone Wars era, but there are minor similarities. Look at the upcoming Star Wars Animated Series. Will I be able to feel an apprehension or fear for any of the main characters other than Anakin's Padawan? No, because I already know where their journeys end. At least we'll maybe see some resolution with Ventriss's characters, or not if she's going to later creep into the comic and novel verses more than she already has.
Good stories are left to tell with in the various timelines, and there is still a lot of unknown moving forward into the Legacy era, but because we know that the pieces have to fit together, we are given clues as to what the future of the novels brings(or hopefully brings ).
The novel writers could continue to sum up important events like the Imperial Mission and Fel's accension in one or two paragraphs.'Shaking fist toward Delrey'  I'd rather see entire books covering the subject myself..........off topic
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Oh, woe! Oh, misery! Oh, unhappiness. Hooley Krekk where are you?
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
7/4 10:46am
Subject:
RE: 'Legacy': Too Soon or Too Late??
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jfostrander01 :
Palpatine worked right under the noses of Mace Windu and Yoda, Jedi masters of great training and ability. No one was looking for the Sith so no Sith were detected. Are we saying Luke is greater than Yoda?
Thanks for responding, John.
With all due respect, Palpatine was ONE Sith Lord though. There are many more Sith hiding in the background in the LotF and beyond era. I would think it would be easier to detect a great many Sith rather than just one.
While I love Yoda and think he is a great and wise Jedi, Luke actually is supposed to be more powerful than even Yoda, so I would think that would make it easier for him to sense the Sith darkness. In the novels, Luke has been able to detect coming darkness often. He has had dreams and visions which bothered him. I would think that the Force should warn him about a growing Sith Order even more, no?
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