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Author	Topic: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 8/28 3:40pm Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	Actually, I stated that the best Luke Skywalker characterization recently was Knights of the Old Republic. Except they're calling him Zayne for some reason. The idea that Luke Skywalker believes in causes versus People is a Bit of an Odd statement. -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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dizfactor Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 8/28 4:22pm Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	He does, though, to some extent. Luke is a joiner. In his mind, he's joined up with the Rebellion as soon as he sees Leia's hologram, and he gets to Yavin and he's jumping right in. He's not only jumping right in, but criticizing Han for not doing the same. To Luke, there's always a Good Side and a Bad Side, and it bothers him to see good people doing anything other than serving the Good Side with all their heart. Luke believes, firmly, that it's not enough for people to be good people, but that people have a proactive duty to seek out and join institutions larger than themselves in service to the cause of Good. He's not as dogmatic about that as OT Leia (who is textbook Lawful Good), but it's almost like he's personally hurt or offended when people's priorities don't include joining the Rebel Alliance/New Republic. Zayne is not like that. He's not only not a joiner, he doesn't even seem to recognize that there are sides at all. It's all about personal conduct for him, about doing the right thing in one's interactions with people, not allegiances to causes larger than oneself. I think part of it is that the Rebel Alliance and, to a slightly lesser extent, the New Republic, are the only two institutions in all of SW that are always portrayed as being essentially perfect. The Empire, the Seps, and the Mandos have been portrayed with redeeming sides, the GA, the Jedi Order, and the Old Republic have all been shown as having good and bad sides to them, but the Rebellion is pretty much the only institution that is portrayed as being all good, all the time. Perhaps Zayne would be more of a joiner than he is in his own era if he lived in Luke's time, or perhaps Luke would be more skeptical if he grew up in his father's era or Cade's era. Who knows? -----signature----- "Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century." Julian Dibbell "You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat." Gryph
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Tricky Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 8/28 6:50pm Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8 - Date Edited: 8/28 7:26pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Tricky
	AdmiralNick22 posted: It will be interesting to see what Celeste does over the next 130+ years until Legacy. --Adm. Nick I'm interested too...cause the implication is, is that she just flew around space for 137ish years never making planetfall anywhere while her Rakghoul crew died & rotted around her. Smacks of absolute insanity more than any other image I've seen in this whole Vector storyarc. What was all that business about imprisoning & haunting Muur if she just goes back to crazy old lady mode? I guess Muur wasn't having any of that & he didn't want to land anywhere either... That cover gives Tricky the creeps. -----signature----- The darkness must go, down the river of nights dreaming, Flow morphia slow, let the sun and light come streaming, Into my life, into my life. There's a light, over at the Frankenstein Place...
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GrandAdmiralJello Title: Emperor • EUC • JCC Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 8/28 8:35pm Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	Captain Holt? Awesome WEG allusion. I greatly approve. I don't care about the rest of the issue. -----signature----- SPQR Vates Ιυλιαδι&sigmaf; Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius Tu regere imperio populos,Romanæ,memento;hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem,parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 8/28 8:36pm Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8 - Date Edited: 8/28 8:41pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Nobody145
	Well, that was an... ok issue, I guess. I've actually liked Vector for the most part, because of how it furthered each series' own plot, though its arguable in some cases, but I felt it contributed a lot to KotOR- the warehouse being Zayne's next clue, showing the Covenant Shadows and implying that they have a small army (well, there have always been hints, but that screen of dozens of secret Jedi agents really bring that point home), Zayne possibly might cash in on a favor with the Mandalorians later, and they got off Taris. Dark Times, they finally got rid of that damn box that's been sitting in the Uhumele since it started, but Rebellion felt the most... incomplete. I actually was expecting Rebellion to be the better Star Wars issue of the week, since I thought the Darth Wyrrlokk thing was mainly filler, but... well, it ended up the other way. Able had a few good moments (I wish they would've cleared up that point about whether all clone troopers knew about Order 66 or not, not to mention the aging), and while he had one good moment saving Leia... that's it, only to end up as yet another Rakghoul. It served to illustrate how oddly both Luke and Leia were immune to the Rakghoul broadcast, but it didn't need to be that blatant. There's no real resolution to him feeling useless, out of his time, and if he had just died last issue, overrun by Rakghouls, I don't think it would've affected his character story in any way. The Vader moments, what few there were, were great, with how it referred back to Sunber, and... don't recognize the other place name, unless its one of the instances where Vader found out Luke is his son, no idea, really, but I like that it showed his possible hesitation about his son, but that he's still somewhat in self-denial about how desperate he is for family. Han... well, the "not happy" part was sorta funny, but honestly, they could've just left him out of the picture, and it wouldn't have changed anything. Such a waste. I sorta wonder if how Leia thought Han abandoned her (based on the thought bubble) might affect a story in the future, what with how we know during the Empire comic series Han and Leia were already flirting a lot, but with Rebellion going on hiatus till next year, any impact that moment might've had will be long, long gone and forgotten by most people. And... well, at least they didn't just leave Celeste on the moon, at least they changed the status quo. But this is the second bigggest time gap between the series (well over a century), and Celeste isn't stuck in a coffin or stuck on a remote moon, she's in a working ship with a small army free to roaml the galaxy?! It was nice that she protected Leia, but... wasn't this already like how she took the Talisman to protect Zayne? So its kinda a redux of that earlier moment already. Although now Celeste understands the sacrifice she's going to have to make by wearing the Talisman, but still felt a bit too... familiar. Oh well, I guess Legacy will have a flashback to show what happened to her in the interim, probably ending up stranded somewhere else again, or something. Excellent art though, but... this is easily the weakest arc of the Vector crossover. I see some hints that could lead to future storylines, but I'll probably forget them all by the time Rebellion starts up again. Oh well, at least the art was good. Now onto Legacy and hopefully Vector will end on a high note (and on time, before '08 is out). On the character thing... I think Cade is still partially in denial. He's willing to be personally loyal to someone, or to his friends, but he's not willing to be a Jedi. We still see glimpses of the honor and kindness that are essential to being a Jedi, but Cade's too burnt out to follow that path (though he can't really be blamed). Force ghost Luke is kind of a nagger, but he's right, Cade can't run from destiny, and usually most or all Skywalkers have a big destiny. On the Luke thing, I think Luke's a classic idealist, he wanted to go off to the Imperial Academy for honor and glory and that kind of stuff, and mainly to get away from boring Tatooine, but he was still loyal to his aunt and uncle not to just abandon them and go off with Obi-wan automatically. Once they were dead though, then Luke immediately joined up with the Rebellion, and Luke showed faith in Han too, despite Han's shady behavior. I think the Rebellion remains one of the few mostly untarnished institutions, as the Rebellion is supposed to be the made up of the people who are brave enough to stand up to the tyrannical galactic government, no matter the cost. They've undermined that image a bit recently (with TFU, for instance), but the classic "freedom fighter" archetype still is mostly the same. Even the early New Republic was like that, for the most part, but in current EU, that's mostly because the early New Republic was the Rebel Alliance just renaming itself, so most of the officers were still the same. By the NJO era, most of them had retired, thinking they had done enough to ensure a relatively stable galaxy... then the Yuuzhan Vong invade and wreck everything, and the New Republic collapses. At the end of NJO, the Galactic Alliance was supposed to fix the problems with a Republic (since everything was following the prequel era style now, all Republics are and always willl be corrupt, no matter what era it is, even if its 4,000 years earlier ), but then LotF wrecked even that image, so that galactic governments seem like a waste. At least over in the Legacy comics, one good GA fleet remains, willing to continue the fight for freedom, no matter the odds, the essence of the Rebel Alliance. Zayne... I think he mainly is worried about people, as mostly, that's all he can affect. His adventures could have potential galaxy-spanning consequences (if the exogarths had been unleashed on the galaxy for instance), but for the most part, he's actively not fighting to save the Republic, as he's busy trying to save himself from the authorities. I think that also is in part due to Zayne's lack of self-confidence, his belief that he will always fail, that he was the class clown. He was trying to be a Jedi, but he never expected to suceed, given how badly the Taris Masters were mentally abusing him (laughing at him behind Zayne's back and to his face occasionally), and Shel was a bit of a consolation prize, but Zayne's intent to do good (and he usually succeeds at helping people too), has never changed, not since his youth. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Carnage04 Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 8/29 12:27am Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	Yikes. I rarely come out of a Dark Horse Comic wanting my $3.00 back but the Rebellion Vector Arc certainly makes a case for it. I was very underwhelmed. Not too much of a real plot and the implication that some half crazed, half possessed, 4,000 year old Jedi is going to spend the next century plus just flying around doesn't work too well for me. Honestly, I hope that the Legacy parts of the series are really really solid. -----signature----- Carnage I Finally decided to use a signature after 3500 posts! 3500 posts * 7 Characters = 24500 keystrokes wasted
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DarthStymi Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 8/29 6:46am Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	The comic shop I frequent, really the only one anywhere close to me, did not pull this issue for me--and it was clearly listed in my pull list. Grrr... And the rest were. of course, sold out (is it because of Vector or because it is the last Rebellion issue for a while, both, neither?). The owner, however, assured me he'll make sure I have it next week. -----signature----- "...the first condition of the hero's journey is recociliation with the grave."-Joseph Campbell
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Bly Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 8/29 9:29am Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	Able's trooper designation is apparently BL-1707. Anyone have any idea how the heck that could be integrated into the current GAR system? For that matter, he went out like a punk. Actually, that's probably being a little dramatic; he didn't even get a horrific transformation scene like Crys. What a waste. -----signature----- Honored recepient of Thrawn McEwok's Bronze Thranta™ A Liberal and proud of it "Politics is simply the continuation of war by other means." --Mandalore the Ultimate Formerly known as Commander5052
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Master_Keralys Title: Lit Mod of Quantum Indeterminacy Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 8/29 11:14am Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	Yeah, I didn't like the Able thing at all. While the issue was kind of meh in any case - Dustin's art being the primary redeeming factor for me - that just made me go, "Really? I mean, we just had the death of beloved side character in the last issue; did we have to repeat it again right here?" - Keralys -----signature----- God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself. The craziest story ever told. The truest.
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 8/29 11:27am Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	Based on this, can we assume that there will be a third - or fourth, if one counts Constable Sowrs in KOTOR - transformation and - possibly death in Legacy Vector? I say possibly, because I have a feeling (or I might have read someone else's theory and forgotten that I read it) that Cade might be able to heal the Rakghouls. Considering his healing powers, it would make some sense that he could bring end to the Talisman's effects through them. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker, the new Jar-Jar!
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TogashiAikune Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 8/29 2:39pm Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	Rouge77 posted: Based on this, can we assume that there will be a third - or fourth, if one counts Constable Sowrs in KOTOR - transformation and - possibly death in Legacy Vector? I say possibly, because I have a feeling (or I might have read someone else's theory and forgotten that I read it) that Cade might be able to heal the Rakghouls. Considering his healing powers, it would make some sense that he could bring end to the Talisman's effects through them. Maybe he'll heal Able and he'll join the Legacy cast. -----signature----- Kyle/Jan, Antares/Sia and Syn/Gunn Yage Shipper Star Wars Comics > Star Wars Novels Kyle Katarn > Every Mandalorian 5/29/07: Victory Against Mara Jade Anti-Mara, Anti-Thrawn and Anti-Omega Squad
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AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 8/29 4:26pm Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	GrandAdmiralJello posted: Captain Holt? Awesome WEG allusion. I greatly approve. I don't care about the rest of the issue. Err, famous Imperial Admiral Arhul Holt defected to the Rebellion, causing many other Imperial officers to follow suit. This resulted in reduced prestige for Anaxes in Imperial eyes. I like Anaxes. I always view it as loyal to the ideals of the Old Republic at it's prime, not the New Order of Emperor Palpatine. --Adm. Nick -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi A New Hope
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RebelGrrl Registered: Jan '06	Date Posted: 8/29 4:41pm Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	Tricky posted: AdmiralNick22 posted: It will be interesting to see what Celeste does over the next 130+ years until Legacy. --Adm. Nick I'm interested too...cause the implication is, is that she just flew around space for 137ish years never making planetfall anywhere while her Rakghoul crew died & rotted around her. Smacks of absolute insanity more than any other image I've seen in this whole Vector storyarc. What was all that business about imprisoning & haunting Muur if she just goes back to crazy old lady mode? I guess Muur wasn't having any of that & he didn't want to land anywhere either... There is always the possibility of a hyperdrive malfunction while enroute wherever she decided to go. She wouldn't know how to fix it, the Rakghouls wouldn't be able to communicate that, and Muur couldn't fix it. She could get stuck in hyperspace or she could get dumped out of hyperspace light years away from anything else, maybe in Wild Space. It takes decades to get out or get to where she can encounter our 'heros' from Legacy. I'm trying not to hurt my brain, but wouldn't extremely prolonged entrapment in hyperspace act as some sort of time dilation? I think it's happened before in an issue of Marvel. I will have to go back and check. That could explain Celeste still appearing as she is. We don't know the natural lifespan of a Rakghoul, but no doubt they turn to cannibalism and perhaps the corpses we see next to her died of Rakghoul old age. Rakghoul old age could be 15 subjective years, making it possible for Celeste to still look good but the monsters to be dead. Just tossin' it out there ... -----signature----- Well-behaved women seldom make history. You can't fix stupid and you can't reason with crazy. Happiness is a warm Hoojib!
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Tricky Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 8/29 6:19pm Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	RebelGrrl posted: Tricky posted: AdmiralNick22 posted: It will be interesting to see what Celeste does over the next 130+ years until Legacy. --Adm. Nick I'm interested too...cause the implication is, is that she just flew around space for 137ish years never making planetfall anywhere while her Rakghoul crew died & rotted around her. Smacks of absolute insanity more than any other image I've seen in this whole Vector storyarc. What was all that business about imprisoning & haunting Muur if she just goes back to crazy old lady mode? I guess Muur wasn't having any of that & he didn't want to land anywhere either... There is always the possibility of a hyperdrive malfunction while enroute wherever she decided to go. She wouldn't know how to fix it, the Rakghouls wouldn't be able to communicate that, and Muur couldn't fix it. She could get stuck in hyperspace or she could get dumped out of hyperspace light years away from anything else, maybe in Wild Space. It takes decades to get out or get to where she can encounter our 'heros' from Legacy. I'm trying not to hurt my brain, but wouldn't extremely prolonged entrapment in hyperspace act as some sort of time dilation? I think it's happened before in an issue of Marvel. I will have to go back and check. That could explain Celeste still appearing as she is. We don't know the natural lifespan of a Rakghoul, but no doubt they turn to cannibalism and perhaps the corpses we see next to her died of Rakghoul old age. Rakghoul old age could be 15 subjective years, making it possible for Celeste to still look good but the monsters to be dead. Just tossin' it out there ... That works too. On top of that, it's a nice plot device to keep her out of established continuity. A story where she invades the Deathstar 2 with her Rakghoul army, that IG-88 as the computer core for the space battle weapon conveniently hides from the sensors of the inhabiting Imperials aboard, then IG-88 finds a way to send her back into her ship & jettison her to Endor's moon where she loses a 3rd of her forces to DS2 wreckage impacting into the moon would've been fun, but we probably don't really need it. Poor Celeste, lost in space! -----signature----- The darkness must go, down the river of nights dreaming, Flow morphia slow, let the sun and light come streaming, Into my life, into my life. There's a light, over at the Frankenstein Place...
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Master_Keralys Title: Lit Mod of Quantum Indeterminacy Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 8/30 8:21am Subject: RE: Rebellion #16: Vector, part 8
	What with the immortality suggestions being played around with regarding the Muur Talisman, I don't think we even really need her to have any sort of weird time dilation. The thing keeps her alive and young - it grants her immortality. Or hadn't you noticed? She looks just as young in Rebellion as she did in Dark Times. And what, precisely, do you think she had to eat on that planet? Given that, I think a hyperdrive malfunction that dumps her out and she spends decades crawling along to the next place makes a lot of sense. - Keralys -----signature----- God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself. The craziest story ever told. The truest.
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