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Topic:
Clone Wars Ongoing Continuity Discussion (spoilers allowed)
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sithreaper
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:13am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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Well I’m pretty sure the clone wars TV is going to drastically alter the following things
How Anakin got his scar
I think we will get a third depiction of the battle of Courascant
Everything else can pretty much get reshuffled easily enough, we will just have to ignore minor continuity errors such as the length of Anakins hair, the dates, the mentioning of events that have been reshuffled etc. We should all be used to it by now anyway.
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CooperTFN
Title: TF.n EU Staff Emeritus
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:21am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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In light of all the recent discussion about keeping things more measured and civil here, wouldn't it be a good idea to maybe give this thread a less...inflammatory title? "Possible Clone Wars Timeline Alterations In Progress" or some such? Seeing something characterized as an implosion before even entering the thread is just begging for "OMG!!! LFL hates the fans!!! Let's riot in the streets!!!"
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Ris_jSarek
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:20am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
- Date Edited:
5/13 3:21am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ris_jSarek
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Sniper_Wolf posted:
Vector Prime busted the character death bubble, this appears to bust the "special status" bubble. Even with this alleged timeline reshuffle Star Wars fans still have the best kept auxillary universe. Lets not dillude ourselves with the "importance" of the EU. Virtually all secondary material for franchises is not canon at all. Trek has no standing, Alien EU has to be rewritten with every film, anything Joss Whedon is not involved with for Buffyverse, and so forth. So Star Wars is now given a treatment more similar to other franchises. This something we, the EU nuts that memorizes everything regarldess of quality, will just have to get used to.
No, we don't. I don't read the secondary material from those other franchises BECAUSE they have no standing. If Star Wars ultimately gets treated the same way, then I won't bother with it, either.
I haven't lost faith in the skills of the authors, particularly those of our favorite retcon artists, to forge something salvageable from the changes this series and the live-action series will create; but ultimately, if they don't make a solid effort, than neither shall I. I may be going to grad school soon; no better time to wrap up a hobby gone sour than the present.
Thrawn McEwok posted:
Partially, though, my shrug is because my interest in Star Wars has been undermined - though that, in turn, is due in no small part to recent problems with holding canon together.
The normal argument in favour of detailed continuity is that inconsistencies kick the reader out of the story, but it's not just a matter of geekery. A coherent canon adds a level of integrity to the product: it means that the character-arcs from previous stories are going to continue, and the underlying situations of the story aren't going to be changed to suit the plot of the latest novel, or because some geek thought a six-foot-tall Luke Skywalker would be "cooler". 
All of those things, I think, harm the reader's enjoyment of the franchise: the major issues people have had with Star Wars stories since forever have been characterization that doesn't match previous novels, and plots that ignore what's been established in previous adventures.
QFT.
Havac posted:
Yeah, I strongly doubt Abel and Dan are happy with developments on this front, and I'd be shocked if they weren't upset, but I'd never expect them to come out and say so.
While I can't speak for Dan, don't underestimate Abel's ability to accept the fluidity of canon.
Havac posted:
Clearly, someone will have to get them roaring drunk at the next Celebration to get their opinion out.
Well, anyone at Celebration IV can attest that Abel has a soft spot for Viandante del Cielo . . . ;-)
Havac posted:
Although it's kind of a rough spot for them, as even if they aren't bothered, everyone will assume they are and are just saying they're not for PR reasons.
Aye. On the upside, at least some of the people trying to press the issue will do so by opening and sharing a bottle of Viandante del Cielo first, so either way, they win. ;-)
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The_Four_Dot_Elipsis
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:25am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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I...am currently working on Anakin Skywalker's Wookieepedia article.
And now I feel the need to shop for hair dye. 
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Ohhh, don't give us none of your aggravation,
We'll hide away your Death Star plans...
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Zorrixor
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:35am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
- Date Edited:
5/13 3:35am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Zorrixor
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Ris_jSarek posted:
Havac posted:
Yeah, I strongly doubt Abel and Dan are happy with developments on this front, and I'd be shocked if they weren't upset, but I'd never expect them to come out and say so.
While I can't speak for Dan, don't underestimate Abel's ability to accept the fluidity of canon.
I don't put it past Abel to think up some kind of time warp that causes the Clone Wars to really last six years due to the shroud of the dark side distorting the time space continuum. 
The crazy thing is I'm actually half serious.
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Ris_jSarek
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:37am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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The_Four_Dot_Elipsis posted:
I...am currently working on Anakin Skywalker's Wookieepedia article.
And now I feel the need to shop for hair dye.
Just so long as you aren't shopping for Kool-Aid.
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Excellence
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:43am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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You're point is valid, Sinrebirth. Don't worry, the fans will make enough noise, and the names will discuss it back in time.
Personally, will it ruin all those Republic-class comics I bought and read for years? Not at all. Skywalker gets knighted half a year before the movie. Moving that back changes what exactly? It was ridiculous he expected to be a master in title in the movie, only 3yrs since the last movie and barely out of his teens. But that was merely a rivet to add to his "off screen" issues with the council.
I will say one thing . . .
The forum banner is hilarious -- You got served! 
. . . 
Yeah, why not.
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Thrawn McEwok
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:44am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
- Date Edited:
5/13 3:46am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Thrawn McEwok
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Zorrixor posted:
The crazy thing is I'm actually half serious.
I think longer Clone Wars are a good thing, myself. They make Ben and Owen's OT ages more believable, for one thing.
And Voren's dating systems in the (New) Essential Chronology (the only in-universe fixers on relative dates) are up the wazoo anyway. Bantam isn't quite in the right place (in terms of internal chronology, the X-wing comic is still in 4 ABY, for one thing, and Leia's still "not quite thirty" in Children of the Jedi, all of which drags the dating issues between Bantam and the NJO - and the NJO and "Legacy of the Force" - back into the right place).
Just remember, kids, it wasn't until around the time of RotS that the Clone Wars ended in 19 BBY. We survived TPM shuttling around the timeline a bit, too, and Obi-Wan's age there being a bit of a bungee. The question isn't "is the timeline karked?" - the timeline is primarily an OOU construct - it's "what specifically needs to be changed to fix it?!"
- The Imperial Ewok
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HedecGa
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/13 4:44am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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Very true. If ever there were a time when LFL could have said "Well, EU fans, it's been a fun ride, but Mr. Lucas has returned to the franchise to take back the reins so we're going to have a fresh start and erase everything you know and love" it would have been with TPM.
Continuity inconsistencies don't bother me, in and of themselves. Heck, even within George's own six-movie vision, look at all the inconsistencies! So, that doesn't keep me up at nights. It's the attitudes behind those things. It's the disrespect for what's come before because it's not how you would have done it and you deciding you'll just "not look" at those things when writing your story or, worse, look and just not care. That's what bothers me. Yes, GL has the right to do what he wants and, like the PT, he'll just go tromping through EU canon and people will scramble behind him to make it all make sense. I truly believe that there's actually been times when his tromping has helped fix previous continuity errors, or at least opened doors that others could use to fix those errors. Hope is not lost.
Again, we made it through the PT and Leland didn't have to hit the big "delete" button on the Holocron, (and that would have been the time that most franchises would have authorized something like that) so I think we should be safe here, too, in terms of total canon meltdown. Besides, the CW has a definite outcome that GL put into place in the first place with RotS. We're talking about a couple years of possible discrepancies. Look at how many stories have been crammed in the Ep4-5 timeline. It's a mess, but continuity, for the most part, is perfectly fine. The CW is a pretty small portion of history here. It's not like GL has decided to tell the further adventures of Luke Skywalker post-Endor. Then we'd really be karked.
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Jmacq1
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 4:44am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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sithreaper posted:
Well I’m pretty sure the clone wars TV is going to drastically alter the following things
How Anakin got his scar
Probably. Though then again it looks like he might have it at the beginning of the show, so we might not actually see it on-screen.
sithreaper posted:
I think we will get a third depiction of the battle of Courascant
Doubtful, at least not anytime soon. The Battle of Coruscant is all but the end of the Clone Wars. Unless they're going to suggest that the Battle of Coruscant actually took several years or there were multiple Battles of Coruscant, we wouldn't see the Battle of Coruscant in this series until (basically) it ended. Right now I think the plan is to keep it running as long as possible.
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The_Four_Dot_Elipsis
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 4:45am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
- Date Edited:
5/13 5:34am (5 edits total)
Edited By:
The_Four_Dot_Elipsis
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Ris_jSarek posted:
The_Four_Dot_Elipsis posted:
I...am currently working on Anakin Skywalker's Wookieepedia article.
And now I feel the need to shop for hair dye.
Just so long as you aren't shopping for Kool-Aid.
Not quite, provided that Hidalgo, Peña, Wallace, Ostrander, and Luceno stay in the game.
Still, above all, this kind of hoodoo is beyond disappointing. Inclusionists are shafted, constantly, and it's a dangerous type of EU fan to be. No one else seems to understand just how damn cool it is to read about a villainess in comics from the eighties, then pick up a few novels from the late 2000s and read her continuing story.
No one else really appreciates it when you can read about a child in a a junior novel, then watch a film from 2005 and say "there she is, all grown up."
People seem to be indifferent towards continuity, but they also seem to not quite fully grasp what's at stake here. To paraphrase Joni Mitchell, "they won't know what they've got 'till it's gone." What's more, paradise is getting paved.
And I don't see why adhering to continuity is such a bad thing. I mean, did shuffling the events of Jedi vs. Sith really improve Path of Destruction? Would it really have hurt to follow the same story? Hell, I for one would have relished the chance to see a novelised adaptation of that story. Instead, arbitrary hackery abounded.
I don't mind when mistakes are made. It's a huge universe, things are bound to be overlooked. But there's a reason Abel G. Peña's work is so well loved. It's because he cares. Daniel Wallace cares. John Ostrander cares. At least, that's the impression that I get. Everyone who read Show of Force should have enjoyed seeing Depa Billaba post Shatterpointery. We're obviously a long way off from that kind of thing being the norm, but by God, people...seamless integration, across mediums. This thing can work. It has. If something's rubbish, people like Peña and Wallace can and will retroactively improve it. Yes, it's possible, it's been done to the Jedi Prince books. Sure, the books themselves are still stupid, but when you take them in the greater context of trying to overthrow Isard et al, they're enhanced. Greatly.
Now it seems you can't trust anything. Most stuff you can read and say for sure "this happened." It has the luxury of being told from an out-of-universe perspective, and therefore, it can be and is the definite truth of what happened at that time, in that place, in the "Star Wars" universe. Unless the story is told from an in-universe perspective, it's nothing like real world history, and the multiple interpretations of certain events. It's the truth, unquestionably. Things like Jedi vs. Sith, however, are thrown into a gray area and that, at least in my mind, damages that work. It's not definitive. And yet something like Splinter of the Mind's Eye still is, despite being adapted several times by different authors.
I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. I just feel...ripped off. Completely and utterly. And no, this isn't an overreaction--the Databank alone has done enough damage already, without the damn film. The fact that I'm a sucker for anything with the "Star Wars" label on it prevents me from boycotting the wretched thing, but...would that I could.
(PS: I had to do this bit by bit due to a bung computer, thus the amount of edits)
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/13 5:27am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
- Date Edited:
5/13 5:28am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Jedimarine
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So they dodge the grief of fans by saying the mistake was made 5 years ago? 
I'm sure Tartakovsky will appreciate that.
If it plays out this way, LFL would be doing "flow walking" of their own...calling something they endorse 5 years ago a "mistake" now.
I wonder if there has been some job rollover since then.
80's Guy from Futurama. posted:
Now, the first order of business is to blame everything on the guy before me.
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AdmiralNick22
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/13 6:10am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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CooperTFN posted:
In light of all the recent discussion about keeping things more measured and civil here, wouldn't it be a good idea to maybe give this thread a less...inflammatory title? "Possible Clone Wars Timeline Alterations In Progress" or some such? Seeing something characterized as an implosion before even entering the thread is just begging for "OMG!!! LFL hates the fans!!! Let's riot in the streets!!!"
I agree with Cooper. The title of this thread should be changed. We don't need inflammatory titles to discuss a new development. Furthermore, the title is overly dramatic and implies that everything we know about Star Wars is about to change.
There is nothing wrong with discussing any changes to the Clone Wars time line, but at least do it in a bit more constructive way.
--Adm. Nick
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/13 6:15am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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With all civility...
I disagree.
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Sinrebirth
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 6:42am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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JM, not one to disagree unnecessarily, but we have a few events where Anakin's rank is specified possibly shifted forward, and Jedi Trial possibly moved to fit. It may be moved to slightly after the Battle of Duro, dependent on the Venator-class destroyers being introduced.
This is not, in any shape or manner, a continuity implosion. 30 months worth of events at worst will need work, or as little as possible. It can be taken as the next in a list of issues people have with continuity, yes, but even then PoD changed JvS a little, and the retcons in Revelation simply filled in a few gaps. Little else. Maybe we're seeing the comics given a different continuity ranking of import. Who knows.
But we haven't had confirmation that film canon is a parallel universe to the EU, at all.
I agree with Coop, and Nick.
There are still numerous stories in the Clone Wars which aren't going to be effected, and until we know exactly when the new date for Anakin's Knighting is, and when the film is set, we can't measure how much this is going to do. Seriously.
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