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Topic:
Clone Wars Ongoing Continuity Discussion (spoilers allowed)
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:22am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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Eh...yeah, the creators are given some flak, but it's possible to do completely subversive rewrites and at the same time not randomly step on canon. I, Jedi's the case in point. I'd strongly prefer more I, Jedis to more Path of Destructions, so to speak.
Luceno did a brilliant job in Labyrinth of Evil making Dooku and Nute Gunray's motivations make some vague sort of sense. I'm still slightly in awe of that. I know some don't like the Luceno approach, but I'm a definite fan.
Meanwhile Stover's version of Dooku was...interesting, but kind of stepped on the EU in completely unnecessary ways.
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:26am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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Rogue_Follower posted:
Leland has clarified the T-canon ranking, over at TOS message boards.
Tasty Taste posted:
The clarify this point just a little bit further, The Clone Wars will not be considered Expanded Universe. They'll be ranked up there with The Movies.
And...
Tasty posted:
T-canon in its entirety is not supposed to be considered part of the EU pillar, but part of the Lucas pillar.
About what we expected, I think. So it's probably G > T > C > S > N.
Well, THAT'S new.
And unfortunate.
Oh well.
-----signature-----
"Looks like you're about to get pwned" - Eric Cartman
"Awarding experience points for cleverly and creatively generating an enjoyable experience. How warped is that?" - Darths & Droids
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purpilian
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:29am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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I am optimistic about this. It could all work. Chances are everything will be done to make sure it doesn't work... but I think maybe it has a chance.
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ZanderSolo
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:31am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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Begun this Canonicity-Level War Has.
-----signature-----
Make a move and ill stab your jugular.
I dont have a jugular.
Then ill keep stabbing you until i find someplace that bleeds copiously.
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Fettster
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:33am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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dp4m posted:
Rogue_Follower posted:
Leland has clarified the T-canon ranking, over at TOS message boards.
Tasty Taste posted:
The clarify this point just a little bit further, The Clone Wars will not be considered Expanded Universe. They'll be ranked up there with The Movies.
And...
Tasty posted:
T-canon in its entirety is not supposed to be considered part of the EU pillar, but part of the Lucas pillar.
About what we expected, I think. So it's probably G > T > C > S > N.
Well, THAT'S new.
And unfortunate.
Oh well.
Not so much new...we've known for weeks that the T-level was going to be above C-level. Tasty's post saying as much here is from the middle of March.
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:35am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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sabarte posted:
Eh...yeah, the creators are given some flak, but it's possible to do completely subversive rewrites and at the same time not randomly step on canon. I, Jedi's the case in point. I'd strongly prefer more I, Jedis to more Path of Destructions, so to speak.
That's totally fair, and I one thing I've come to realize is that I have to make an important distinction, one I hadn't before and I think this coloured how what I was saying was percieved, in that there's nothing wrong with being upset something was changed, but at some point an author turns in an outline and discusses what they want to do with an editor.
At that point, with something like PoD, and editor can give the nod to changes or not, and the nod was given to changes to "make the story better" in the eyes of the author.
I'm not going to argue whether that worked or not, because that's the subjective part. If it didn't work for you, then by all means, you don't like it, fair enough, but my point is back when the editor gave the nod, or saw the change, or was asked by the author; "Do you mind if I change this?" or when they hired the author and said; "We're doing an adaption of Jedi vs Sith", because the editors could have said; "We're lockstep continuity, you can add side bits, but we need to follow what is in the comic because it's canon".
It's not hard. Give an author direction. If he/she doesn't follow, do a rewrite, make them do a rewrite, or just don't work with them again.
So, by all means, judge the author by what is on the page, but there's also the fact that if canon has been changed then the company that OWNS the work gave the go-ahead to do it, and this means that canon is mutable.
Then you get the really weird things (imo), like people taking the time to explain a typo out of universe in INSIDER while just sort of ignoring the fact, even when asked outright, that events don't line up with their counterparts in the graphic novel. It's just odd, imo.
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Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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CeiranHarmony
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:36am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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Personally I am shocked about these news. Like I was about Invincible. But in retrospective, Invincible has pretty good things to consider despite not being what I expected. So maybe this will have, too! I doubt it but well...
The problems I see are:
They use EU chars and EU plots for their T-canon ideas.
I could live with 2 separate canons, like paralell universes.
BUT...
I can not understand why they then also produce books, tie-ins and stuff for the series that would be considered EU, wouldn´t it? And how about the real live series or other cartoons coming?
If they keep it clean and separate, well, ok, bad for my money but good otherwise. Interesting even. But if they mix it, very bad for both. They should not use Asaj or EU inventions if they don´t want to stick to the EU of that creations.
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"Less is more!" Union
"Make Love, not Clone War."
Starkiller vs. Skywalker vs. Death Star = The Force Unleashed
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HedecGa
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:37am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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I think "it all fits" as much as a multi-billion dollar franchise handled by hundred of creators, writers, artists could fit. As evidenced by my sig below, I'm working on my own epic saga and, guys, I STILL contradict myself from time to time and I have to go back and retcon something. And this is just ME handling this stuff. But, you know, I get excited thinking about something in the series and I go with it and, before I know it, I just wrote myself into a corner and I have to do something creative to get out of it. And this is for a series I'm constantly thinking/dreaming about.
So, while, yes, not everything fits in Star Wars in the strictest black/white sense, I think it still fits in spirit--or at least aims to. And, thankfully, I don't think we've become like the X-Men franchise (and most other franchises), where each cartoon, each comic book series, each movie series, is a totally different universe. Star Wars is far from perfect in its continuity, but it's dang close enough for me. 
I'm crazy excited about the new series and I'm not going to let something like "what specific date Anakin got his scar" stand in my way. If it doesn't fit PERFECTLY--like has been said by others here--my mind will just make the fanon leap to uphold the suspension of disbelief. Because, like Mulder, "I want to believe."
And, on a side note, I really liked your posts, patch. You expressed yourself beautifully and I totally understood where you are coming from.
-----signature-----
"The Coming Evil, Book One: The Strange Man" available NOW at http://www.thecomingevil.com Author of the Dusty Duck databank entry - The 71st "Greatest Thing About Star Wars...Ever!" - SW Insider 100 Co-author of the Silya Shessaun databank entry
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:40am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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Fettster posted:
Not so much new...we've known for weeks that the T-level was going to be above C-level. Tasty's post saying as much here is from the middle of March.
Nah, thought that was the general T-canon post which said that they were intermediarily making the new TV series "T-canon" to classify them differently without any further indication as to what "T-canon" meant other than giving a label to the TV stuff. As well, they were calling the TV stuff EU at that time.
-----signature-----
"Looks like you're about to get pwned" - Eric Cartman
"Awarding experience points for cleverly and creatively generating an enjoyable experience. How warped is that?" - Darths & Droids
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:43am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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ZanderSolo posted:
Begun this Canonicity-Level War Has.
Tasty posted:
T-canon in its entirety is not supposed to be considered part of the EU pillar, but part of the Lucas pillar.
Wait...is this supposed to indicate that T-canon and G-Canon are NOT part of the EU? Or maybe I should write that the EU is NOT part of T-canon or G-canon?
So none of the EU stuff exists in the "T-canon" or "G-Canon" pillars?
(well, we know that GL doesn't consider the EU "real", so that sorta makes sense)
And since when did we have pillars? Pillars run side by side, so does that mean SW is held up by the pillars of G/T/C-canon? With each one running alongside but not touching?
Did the universes just seperate or am I reading that totally wrong?
-----signature-----
Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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HedecGa
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:44am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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We made it through the PT and all its "continuity-busters" relatively in tact. We shall survive this, too.
And, making this a "seperate universe" from the rest of the EU CW stuff...um. I don't think so. If they were RADICALLY different, maybe, but we're talking about different dates and different shades of motivations. It's not like Asajj is a guy in this or Dooku loses the bottom half of his torso and spends the rest of the series in a robotic walker.
-----signature-----
"The Coming Evil, Book One: The Strange Man" available NOW at http://www.thecomingevil.com Author of the Dusty Duck databank entry - The 71st "Greatest Thing About Star Wars...Ever!" - SW Insider 100 Co-author of the Silya Shessaun databank entry
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HedecGa
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:46am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
- Date Edited:
5/12 11:46am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
HedecGa
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patchwork27 posted:
Did the universes just seperate or am I reading that totally wrong?
Depends on which day you ask GL. I've read some interviews where he says "They're parallel unvirses, never the twain shall meet", and then I've read others where he says "Yeah, it counts, it's just not the story I'm interested in telling."
-----signature-----
"The Coming Evil, Book One: The Strange Man" available NOW at http://www.thecomingevil.com Author of the Dusty Duck databank entry - The 71st "Greatest Thing About Star Wars...Ever!" - SW Insider 100 Co-author of the Silya Shessaun databank entry
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:46am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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patchworkz7 posted:
ZanderSolo posted:
Begun this Canonicity-Level War Has.
Tasty posted:
T-canon in its entirety is not supposed to be considered part of the EU pillar, but part of the Lucas pillar.
Wait...is this supposed to indicate that T-canon and G-Canon are NOT part of the EU? Or maybe I should write that the EU is NOT part of T-canon or G-canon?
So none of the EU stuff exists in the "T-canon" or "G-Canon" pillars?
(well, we know that GL doesn't consider the EU "real", so that sorta makes sense)
And since when did we have pillars? Pillars run side by side, so does that mean SW is held up by the pillars of G/T/C-canon? With each one running alongside but not touching?
Did the universes just seperate or am I reading that totally wrong?
I *think* it's like descending pillars that you can step on...
At the top is G-canon and then you step-down to T-canon, then C-canon...
At least that's how I read it, but meh...
-----signature-----
"Looks like you're about to get pwned" - Eric Cartman
"Awarding experience points for cleverly and creatively generating an enjoyable experience. How warped is that?" - Darths & Droids
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Fettster
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:48am
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
- Date Edited:
5/12 11:49am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Fettster
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patchworkz7 posted:
ZanderSolo posted:
Begun this Canonicity-Level War Has.
Tasty posted:
T-canon in its entirety is not supposed to be considered part of the EU pillar, but part of the Lucas pillar.
Wait...is this supposed to indicate that T-canon and G-Canon are NOT part of the EU? Or maybe I should write that the EU is NOT part of T-canon or G-canon?
So none of the EU stuff exists in the "T-canon" or "G-Canon" pillars?
(well, we know that GL doesn't consider the EU "real", so that sorta makes sense)
And since when did we have pillars? Pillars run side by side, so does that mean SW is held up by the pillars of G/T/C-canon? With each one running alongside but not touching?
Did the universes just seperate or am I reading that totally wrong?
According to Lucas, SW continuity is now "three pillars"--Lucas's stuff, EU, and fanon. The new TV shows are being filed under Lucas's stuff.
And dp, your interpretation is the same as mine, hence the interpretation I gave Chee's old quote.
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Persephone_Kore
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 12:23pm
Subject:
RE: Continuity implosion in process
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sabarte posted:
I don't see any reason why Dark Rendezvous couldn't be earlier.
Based on internal cues, it seems like Sean Stewart thought it was.
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