| Author |
Topic:
What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
|
Date Posted:
5/12 10:43pm
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
sabarte posted:
I agree we need more consistency, but I'm....not sure plotting by committee is the best way to go about it. It may totally be an illusion, but it feels in the past that authors had a bit more control over the plots of their stories and they overall made more sense when they were writing self-contained books and trilogies than when there's a giant x-book series with an overplot they need to adhere to.
Though, OK, some didn't make much sense even then! 
Actually, it's plotted by committee *NOW*
-----signature-----
Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
|
Date Posted:
5/12 10:45pm
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
|
Yes, I know. I think that's bad.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
|
Date Posted:
5/12 11:51pm
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
Charlemagne19 posted:
Am I taking this conversation too serious or not seriously enough?
I think a better starting question would have been "What can Star Wars learn from other franchises to stay fresh and give us more quality product?", or some variation of that.
Basically, there's a lot in various franchises that SW can borrow and adapt to, but it'd have to give up at least part of the "everything fits" mentality, or at least introduce the idea that not everthing conforms to the EU proper, thus paving the way for non-canon cartoons and the like.
There's a good question in there, but (no offense) I think you artificially limited it from the onset by focusing discussion on a specific medium and other franchise, tbh.
-----signature-----
Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ris_jSarek
Registered:
Feb '05
|
Date Posted:
5/13 3:36am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
Havac posted:
And this is precisely why we should just let Star Wars have a normal, perfectly linear continuity.
And this is precisely why we should just let Star Wars have a wonderfully abnormal, perfectly linear continuity.
Fixed.
Charlemagne19 posted:
However, I think that essentially believing you can keep going forward and backwards indefinitely is a bit foolish.
When you've got 25 millennia of history and an indefinite future, both being completely untied to our world's calendar, I don't see why.
-----signature-----
http://churchofbrad.com/jsarek/ Proud recipient of Halagad_Ventor's MOO (Master of Obscurity) Award, Brett_Bass's Spiffy Crown™, and Thrawn McEwok's "Ohh...? Interesting..." Award™
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
|
Date Posted:
5/13 3:41am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
Ris_jSarek posted:
When you've got 25 millennia of history and an indefinite future, both being completely untied to our world's calendar, I don't see why.
Because at some point it ceases to be Star Wars. Golden Age of the Sith seems to prove this just fine.
-----signature-----
Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
|
Date Posted:
5/13 4:15am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
patchworkz7 posted:
Havac posted:
And this is precisely why we should just let Star Wars have a normal, perfectly linear continuity.
Yeah. I really don't want to sit through SW having a Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Final Night, Infinite Crisis, Armageddon 2001, 52, Countdown, and Final Crisis just to get back to a linear continuity that includes everything (which is essentially what is going on, except 52 broke everything up and made it so that there were 52 "realities" to explain why there were so many alternate histories and so on).
Seriously, I'd rather go with the Marvel version which is to just nod, wink, and pretend we don't notice the sliding timescale.
Actually, I'd rather stick with Havac and have a linear continuity.
The success of the X-Wing novels, Republic Commando, KoToR, and more have all shown that SW as a brand is about more than the "Big Three". Heck, according to GL the "Big Three" aren't even what SW is about, since he says he considers it to be about the rise and fall of Vader (grain of salt time, but there you go).
The setting long ago surpassed the characters, and that opens up a LOT of territory for the brand, if it's willing to use it.
Yeah, I really don't want for Star Wars to take ideas from the comics. If there's one thing that I like about SW, is tha it has one Linear Continuity; albeit told through different mediums. Entire histories of certain characters aretold so tha you can follow their early years, teens, young adult, and so on.
The problem with Batman in my opinion, is that you have many different Continuities, and many different versions as well. You can't get a clear personality as to who he is; for example, Adam West's Batman is this quirky funny guy who dances weird and has a Batman costume that looks like he bought it at the dollar store, whereas Christian Bale's Batman is this sort of dark moody character that has a suit with Kevlar armor, thermal settings for heat and cold, and among other things: Add that to the 10 or so oter versions of Batman throught the years, and you don't know who's the true interpretation of the character.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
|
Date Posted:
5/13 4:28am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
Add that to the 10 or so oter versions of Batman throught the years, and you don't know who's the true interpretation of the character.
They all are.
Its not like any sane man should consider the hand wringing weirdo of the LOTF to be the "real" Luke Skywalker anymore than the dynamic Jedi Master of other books.
They're all different author's takes.
-----signature-----
Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jmacq1
Registered:
May '05
|
Date Posted:
5/13 4:36am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
Charlemagne19 posted:
Well in Comic Book Continuity, Batman has actually been fighting for 23 years straight (Crisis on Infinite Earths-1985). He's also in a sliding Time scale that has allowed him to adopt Dick Grayson (13 year old) and raise him to be 25-26 and do the same for Jason Todd *AND* Tim Drake. Batman is thus probably in his mid fifties looking like his early thirties.
No, he hasn't. DC follows the same kind of "sliding timescale" that every other comic book universe falls into. According to DC, it's only been about 12-15 years in-universe since the "debut" of Batman and Superman. Yes, virtually the entire character history of these guys gets squeezed into a few years.
Batman actually -is- in his mid 30's or so, in-universe. Not fiftysomething-looking-like-thirty.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
|
Date Posted:
5/13 4:41am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
Jmacq1 posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
Well in Comic Book Continuity, Batman has actually been fighting for 23 years straight (Crisis on Infinite Earths-1985). He's also in a sliding Time scale that has allowed him to adopt Dick Grayson (13 year old) and raise him to be 25-26 and do the same for Jason Todd *AND* Tim Drake. Batman is thus probably in his mid fifties looking like his early thirties.
No, he hasn't. DC follows the same kind of "sliding timescale" that every other comic book universe falls into. According to DC, it's only been about 12-15 years in-universe since the "debut" of Batman and Superman. Yes, virtually the entire character history of these guys gets squeezed into a few years.
Batman actually -is- in his mid 30's or so, in-universe. Not fiftysomething-looking-like-thirty.
And it doesn't make sense in any way shape or form unless he adopted Dick Grayson the year he became Batman.
-----signature-----
Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jmacq1
Registered:
May '05
|
Date Posted:
5/13 4:54am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
- Date Edited:
5/13 4:57am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jmacq1
|
It's no less nonsensical than a "human" being in his fifties and fighting crime like he's in his 30's. But I'm just telling you what DC's official stance is, because you clearly weren't aware of it.
Batman took in Dick Grayson somewhere between his second and third year as Batman, and trained him for a year prior to putting him in a costume. In the new timescale, Dick Grayson was only active as Robin for about 3-4 years (not including the year for training), becoming Nightwing when he was around 18. Jason Todd was only Robin for about two years. There was a year or so "break" before Tim Drake took up the mantle, and Tim himself is supposedly still only 16 or 17 years old.
Dick Grayson is "currently" in his mid-20's.
I didn't say it made a lot of sense, but that's DC's "official" stance for why Batman still is in his 30's. Flat out ignoring any specific date references and birthday celebrations in prior issues is a good way to start understanding it.
And also another good reason that the "Batman" example isn't a good one for Star Wars.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ris_jSarek
Registered:
Feb '05
|
Date Posted:
5/13 4:56am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
Charlemagne19 posted:
And it doesn't make sense in any way shape or form
Now you're catching on.
-----signature-----
http://churchofbrad.com/jsarek/ Proud recipient of Halagad_Ventor's MOO (Master of Obscurity) Award, Brett_Bass's Spiffy Crown™, and Thrawn McEwok's "Ohh...? Interesting..." Award™
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
|
Date Posted:
5/13 4:59am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
- Date Edited:
5/13 4:59am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Charlemagne19
|
Jmacq1 posted:
It's no less nonsensical than a "human" being in his fifties and fighting crime like he's in his 30's. But I'm just telling you what DC's official stance is, because you clearly weren't aware of it.
Actually, I thought sensibly Batman was in his forties.[/quote]
Jmaq posted:
Batman took in Dick Grayson somewhere between his second and third year as Batman, and trained him for a year prior to putting him in a costume. In the new timescale, Dick Grayson was only active as Robin for about 3-4 years (not including the year for training), becoming Nightwing when he was around 18. Jason Todd was only Robin for about two years. There was a year or so "break" before Tim Drake took up the mantle, and Tim himself is supposedly still only 16 or 17 years old.
Dick Grayson is "currently" in his mid-20's.
I didn't say it made a lot of sense, but that's DC's "official" stance for why Batman still is in his 30's. Flat out ignoring any specific date references and birthday celebrations in prior issues is a good way to start understanding it.
And also another good reason that the "Batman" example isn't a good one for Star Wars.
I'm not ignoring it. I was trying to make sense of it.
-----signature-----
Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
|
Date Posted:
5/13 5:05am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
Charles posted:
Frankly, I'm no less interested in the Dark Knight than I was in Revenge of the Sith.
Oh, but I am!
Superheroes have not survived my childhood. Star Wars has. Superheroes run around in the real world. Star Wars doesn't. The vast suspension of disbelief that I need to reach before I can enjoy superheroes - vigilante men who put themselves above the law and wear spandex - is completely incomparable to the premise of 'a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away'.
Star Wars is a myth. Star Wars is on par with the Iliad.
Batman is just a guy in a kinky suit. Batman is on par with Willy Wonka.
Not being a native English speaker, I flinch at every comparison between Star Wars and superheroes. Doesn't anybody here know any European comics?
I have always considered Star Wars vastly superior to any other franchise - not only because of its internal consistency, but also because the amount of detail which is lacking in any other - so I don't think we should stoop to the level of... anything else.
-----signature-----
Trandoshan flatcakes!
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
|
Date Posted:
5/13 5:11am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
|
I have always considered Star Wars vastly superior to any other franchise - not only because of its internal consistency, but also because the amount of detail which is lacking in any other - so I don't think we should stoop to the level of... anything else.
Star Wars is a reimagined Flash Gordon.
Batman is a reimagined Shadow.
They have good roots.
-----signature-----
Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Kaje
Registered:
May '05
|
Date Posted:
5/13 5:14am
Subject:
RE: What can the Big Three learn from Batman?
- Date Edited:
5/13 5:16am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Kaje
|
Charlemagne19 posted:
Star Wars is a reimagined Flash Gordon.
To some people. I still maintain that SW is epic fantasy, not a serial adventure space opera.
-----signature-----
"Alderaan shot first." - Dunc T'racen
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
