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Author	Topic: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
Lord_Vivec Registered: Apr '06	Date Posted: 5/15 5:02pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	10/10 Another masterful work by Troy Denning. Is there anything he writes that I don't like? The Good: Luke being useful Jaina finally gets to be the hero of the story Ben gets to be a useful Jedi Knight Good writing Jag Fel as head of Empire The Bad Daala, war criminal and imperial, head of the GA? I want to see where this is going. What is Fel's new title, again? No Chiss The Ugly Umm...wth happened to the Korriban Sith? Overall, I'll still give it a 10/10. -----signature----- Lord Sithis, Dark Lord of Entropy Senator of the Disciples of Lady Lumiya and Lord Shadowspawn Avatar: Of Fire and Lightning: http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_fan_fiction/b10808/28930140/p1/?5 Obama/Biden '08
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SuperSaiyaMan12 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 5/15 5:27pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	Can I make a comment for everyone who gave a half-way-stellar review for this book? Why aren't you even remotely bothered by the lack of redemption in the story? Why are you...okay with the Jedi ordering a murder-instead of a capture or an attempt on redemption? This fundamentally underminds what Star Wars is-a story of redemption. So why aren't any of you reviewers bothered at all by that? -----signature----- http://www.drewpotenti.com/BENEFIT.php Please donate, Drew needs all help she can get http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/22930083/p1/?93 Long live Young Jedi Knights! Revan/Bastila, Luke/Mara, Jacen/Tenel ka shipper
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Earthknight Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 5/15 5:46pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	SuperSaiyaMan12 posted: Can I make a comment for everyone who gave a half-way-stellar review for this book? Why aren't you even remotely bothered by the lack of redemption in the story? Why are you...okay with the Jedi ordering a murder-instead of a capture or an attempt on redemption? This fundamentally underminds what Star Wars is-a story of redemption. So why aren't any of you reviewers bothered at all by that? The Jedi legacy of redemption lies in Ben now. He redeemed Tahiri and saw the conflict in her. The other knights obviously don't believe in it anymore. Those who don't will probably become Imperial Knights. The purpose was to show where the Order is headed. It's going to get divided. Expect some sort of conflict and arguements between Ben and Jaina in the future about the methods on dealing with darksiders. It will explain why Fels don't like Skywalkers very much in the future. -----signature----- Master to jacensolofangirl2007 Our philosophy: We strive for a 100 in awesomeness. And if we get a 90, it's still cool. ~My Fanfiction Stories~ The Guardians of Light- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=259245
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Darth-Ghost Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 5/15 5:47pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	SuperSaiyaMan12 posted: Can I make a comment for everyone who gave a half-way-stellar review for this book? Why aren't you even remotely bothered by the lack of redemption in the story? Why are you...okay with the Jedi ordering a murder-instead of a capture or an attempt on redemption? This fundamentally underminds what Star Wars is-a story of redemption. So why aren't any of you reviewers bothered at all by that? Ben redeemed Tahiri. Jacen redeemed himself before Jaina killed him, in my opinion. Jacen had given Luke, Jaina, Han, Leia, Tenel Ka, the Jedi and everyone in the galaxy many reasons to believe why he couldn't be redeemed. That he was another Palpatine, not Vader. He never admitted he wanted or needed help, either. He had severed his relationships with everyone, unlike Vader. Even Allana thought he was a bad guy who liekd to hurt people, and was scared of him.
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leia7 Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 5/15 6:15pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	SuperSaiyaMan12 posted: Can I make a comment for everyone who gave a half-way-stellar review for this book? Why aren't you even remotely bothered by the lack of redemption in the story? Why are you...okay with the Jedi ordering a murder-instead of a capture or an attempt on redemption? This fundamentally underminds what Star Wars is-a story of redemption. So why aren't any of you reviewers bothered at all by that? At the beginning, yes. But then I remembered how mad I got when they spent at least four books sitting around and going "hmm, let's capture Jacen. I wonder why he's so evil." What was the last straw for me in that regard was when Luke didn't kill him in Revelation because he had to survive to Invincible. In my interpretation, Vader found the light side because his son's attempts at redemption recalled his love for Padme and his humanity. Jacen's love for Allana and Tenel Ka doesn't cause him to empathize with anyone else, proving to me that he is too far gone to be redeemed, although many disagree. And this really belongs in the discussion thread.
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Master_Keralys Title: Manager: -Lit -EUC Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 5/15 6:20pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/15 6:21pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Master_Keralys
	This is not a discussion thread. I'm keeping a close eye on it. It's clearly stated that discussion belongs in the discussion thread; this is not the place for it. That's in the thread rules. Next people to discuss instead of reviewing get bans. - Keralys -----signature----- God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself. The craziest story ever told. The truest.
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 5/15 6:40pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/15 6:41pm (1 edits total) Edited By: xx_Anakin_xx
	Okay, after deliberation I have decided to give the book a 4/10. My above review pretty much sums up how I feel in support of this score. -----signature----- "Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must" "You will try"
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NJOfan215 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 5/15 7:01pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	I liked the book. I'm happy that denning decided to leave out the extrainious political stuff, whihc allowed for a tighter focus on our main characters. 9/10 -----signature----- This council has zero tolerance for any sexual deviancy regarding our Jedi Knights. Go Eagles
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Havac Title: Lit Mod of Awayness Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 5/15 8:17pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	Average score: 175.99/23 = 7.65 -----signature----- Slaughter is the best medicine Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Sexually Ambiguous Tusken Raider™ and a Special Golden Ewok™ "Reality doesn't care if you believe it." - Boba Fett
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Feathered_Hair Registered: Sep '07	Date Posted: 5/15 8:54pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/15 8:55pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Feathered_Hair
	I'd like to give this one a 4/10. The good: Jaina finally gets a somewhat important role (other than staring at Mandalorians like they're gods.) Caedus finally gets it. I don't think there was really much chance for him to be captured. They had tried that, and had tried to end the whole war for the entire series, and it just wasn't going to happen. I'm sure if Jacen had been captured, he would have just become more and more angry, more sith-like, and far more dangerous, resulting in an escape, and an even larger and more explosive war. The links to Legacy. I am thoroughly enjoying Legacy, and the nods to forming things up is nice, although alot of it seems without much preamble. Why is Jag leading the Moffs? We knew it was going to happen, eventually, but there is no explanation, no logic, and it would have fit better, I think, If Legacy had been scheduled to come out within the next few months, because then Denning would have had to make better excuses for why some things ended up the way they are. The bad: More Mandalorians. I never hated them more than when I started reading this series. They're out-dated, and belong in the Old Republic Era. Denning and Allston's biggest redeeming factors were that they essentially ignored the mandalorians. Period. In this one they get more time in the fore-front, and I absolutely hated it. I keep asking myself why Boba Fett isn't dead yet. Size. Seriously, it was over too fast, and (I listened to the Audiobook at work) was over with it within about 6 hours. That's just far too short for a conclusion. Way too short. No real resolution. Most multi-part series that Star Wars has given us has always had at least some of a conclusion, and this one did not. At all. It was too open, no real explanations for how things happened. It was rushed, and this (I think) speaks for Del-Rey's quantity over quality policy, and one of the reasons I've been disappointed with their books. Admiral Daala. I thought her being brought back was simply a joke, and her being the Chief of State? Even worse. Seduction. The Tahiri/Ben Seduction scene was revolting, at best. I think Denning was channeling some childhood fantasies, but it was absolutely vile, and something I just can't see something like that happening in a Star Wars novel, seriously. Everything being said, I still enjoy most of Denning's books, but some of this was just...not even remotely enjoyable. At all. -----signature----- "Ask me if I care."
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Havac Title: Lit Mod of Awayness Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 5/15 9:39pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	Average score: 179.99/24 = 7.50 -----signature----- Slaughter is the best medicine Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Sexually Ambiguous Tusken Raider™ and a Special Golden Ewok™ "Reality doesn't care if you believe it." - Boba Fett
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 5/16 4:19am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/16 4:32am (3 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
	For the first time since Sacrifice I managed to remain spoiler free and even Sacrifice was spoiled for me accidentally when browsing Mara Jade's wiki page. Due to that, I am honestly still in something of a state of shock, as Invincible really, really hit me hard. I was so sad to see Jacen die. No, not Caedus, Caedus had it coming, but in that last moment he was Jacen, and... yeah. Just... Thankfully, I have had a night to sleep on it, as after putting the book down at 3am last night I was close to coming on here and ranting about how I finally understood all the criticism others have given LOTF about the spirit of Star Wars having been lost and this no longer feeling like the films I once loved. While having slept I'm now not about to bash Invincible, I will return to my sentiments from last night after analysing it. On the whole, Invincible was a wonderful story. I felt it was paced well and easily one of the better written episodes in the LOTF saga. Nickel One was great, the Nickel One duel was absolutely brilliant, despite my fears that the whole "Luke masking Jaina" idea would be completely silly. It served as a wonderful "ESB moment" for Jaina and the only thing that I felt bad about was that we didn't see the prelude to their final duel earlier in the series. However, I felt the second half of the book felt a lot more rushed than the first. Another 30 or 50 pages would have made it so much smoother. Despite loving the Nickel One duel, I felt it made the Anakin Solo duel look terrible by comparison. The Anakin Solo duel was just so short and felt so less intense, I just wasn't feeling it the same way I felt the Nickel One duel. Likewise, I felt the ending was rather rushed. We had so little closure, which is fine in the middle of a series, but as the concluding part in such a long story I expected them to draw a line under everything, so was a little disappointed that not only was the ending a sad one, but that I felt absolutely no sense of a finish. I kept wanting to turn the page expecting there to be something more. I can only conclude that that cannot have been a good sign. The Epilogue... eww. Talk about rushed Legacy setup. Jag becoming leader of the Remnant totally out of the blue? Daala? DAALA?! What. The. Kark? I am all for having the Remnant and Alliance get along. I am all for letting bygones by bygones. There is nothing wrong with a member of the Remnant becoming Chief of State, sure. To risk a Godwin, there is nothing wrong with Germany holding the presidency of the EU. It was be something completely different to let a Nazi war criminal hold the presidency of the EU. Daala is a war criminal. So, sorry, but no, just no. Any suspension of disbelief I may have with Star Wars completely fell apart with that and I have a huge suspension of disbelief and usually sigh and shake my head with a lot of the nit picking problems I read around Lit. Jaina. Tainted by the dark side much? I honestly felt sorry for Jacen when he died. The guy was a jerk and clearly useless at explaining himself but Jaina was an assassin in that duel not a Jedi. All that talk about Luke worrying that if he fought Caedus he'd fall to the dark side, so Jaina goes instead, and what happens? Fall to the dark side or not, she wasn't acting like a Jedi. Now, maybe I'm being unfair, I don't know. The trouble is this is really the first time we have ever seen the life story of an unredeemed Sith Lord. Usually they're evil from when we first see them, e.g. Palpatine, so their death doesn't shock us. This is the first time I can think of where we've watched someone grow up and fall without ever being redeemed. But, heck, even Darth Malak got a chance at saying sorry. The fact Jacen didn't have any final words was just... hurtful. Especially when Tahiri got a redemption. I also felt the way they wrote him walking around with a stab wound and needles in his face was just a bit too much. I'm all for blood and gore... but not in Star Wars. It was a bit too visceral for me, especially because he died. It seemed as if cutting his arm off was being done to give Jaina the advantage she needed to take him in alive. Had he just been left brutally mutilated then I may have understood the need to completely butcher his body first. But when he lost his arm it felt so clear that he was going to live but be left permanently mutilated, living a rather poetic life with Tenal Ka as the one armed couple. The way they completely mutilated him in that final fight though with syringes sticking out everywhere and then still went and killed him... I just felt it was unfair. A Jedi kills their enemy because they have no other choice, not because they enjoy it, and while it has nothing to do with Jaina having enjoyed it or tried to mutilate him, it still projected this image of Jaina kicking him while he was down. After all that build up of Jacen not being prepared to kill Jaina in the first duel, Jaina seemed a whole lot less understanding. So, Jacen's death really was powerful, which is the point, admittedly, so from a literary point of view I felt it was executed wonderfully, just I felt it was far more painful than I was hoping. I've never understood what other people have meant when they've complained about Star Wars becoming too dark but I think I now do as I was so hoping for a happier ending. LOTF didn't need such a sad ending, Sacrifice gave us the ROTS moment, this should have given us the ROTJ moment, and after the neutral ending of DN and most of the rest of LOTF I was just left feeling depressed and a little cheated of a long overdue ROTJ moment; with how many ROTS endings the individual LOTF books had, I felt the finale should have made up for the sadness of the rest of the series but it seems not. Even NJO, with the death of Anakin in SbS, still had TUF be a happy ending. For LOTF to be more depressing than NJO just felt, well, too much, my heart was honestly breaking by the end of it. I was praying for Jaina to just drop the Mando routine and give Jacen a chance, I could almost see it in my head with them downing lightsabers and teaming up to rush to the Dragon Queen and kick Tahiri's behind for the nanokiller trick. But... no. He just died. Just like that. She never even gave him a chance. Jacen still dying I could have handled, even had he just collapsed after his foot was cut and begged Jaina to go and help Allana before dying of his injuries I could have handled, but the way it was done was just so... heartless. Anyway, my utter shock and horror at it aside, it was done well and the fact it had such a profound impact on me obviously means Denning did his job, even if it was not what I hope to read Star Wars for. In the middle of a series? Sure. The end? Not really. The problem was the epilogue did so little to actually address Jacen's death, it was far more about setting up all the Legacy things, so I really pray the Millennium Falcon book gives us some closure on the Solos state of mind and that maybe we'll see Jacen as a Force ghost, since as far as I'm concerned he turned back to the light in that last second when he called out to Tenal Ka. Things I look forward to beyond the Solos? Ben and Jaina falling out. I was so pleased with Ben when he was talking about redemption and the rest were all just shaking their heads. He is truly his father's son. I may hate redemption in storylines and never wanted Jacen to walk out of this all redeemed and forgiven, but I feel it is crucial the good guys still believe it is possible and should be tried. The fact Jaina never bothered makes me hope she realises that she can't be a Jedi anymore, thus leaving the Order to found the Imperial Knights. As, frankly, she stopped being a Jedi when she ignored Jacen's plea for help. I'm also hoping what she did haunts her for the rest of her life, which I'm absolutely sure it will, causing her to lose faith in the will of the Force, believing that if she was its 'Sword' it should have stopped her before it was too late, it should have made her sense the truth in Jacen's words. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure Jaina's going to decide the will of the Force isn't all its cracked up to be and, frankly, after this I'm not sure I disagree. On the plus side, this may mean the Imperial Knights reason for not caring about the will are a more profound one, since it won't begin for a selfish reason as such, but rather in the belief that the Force's will was wrong about Caedus lying. The random ugly? Shatterpoint. Was there any need to show Jaina learning this when she never used it? I was just left rather confused about that. It seemed as if it was going to play a crucial part in their final battle then it just seemed to get forgotten. I loved the fact Jacen used it and that it showed him as the Sith Lord he should have been shown as much, much earlier, but the idea Jaina could learn something that was apparently lost and forgotten (so one assumes hard) in five minutes seemed both a bit strange and ultimately unnecessary. In contrast to shatterpoint, I was thrilled to see flow-walking finally explained. I always felt it was just an illusion, and while it may not have been Jacen directly projecting an illusion I'm glad it turned out to basically be little better. Its good to know we're back to the immutable timeline. Allana. Was she meant to make us feel better? I'm sure that final scene was meant to be the 'new hope' scene of making us realise it wasn't so bad after all but... it didn't do it for me. I knew she wasn't dead as soon as they said it as it was so obvious he wasn't going to kill her and that the Hapans were just hiding her, so her return didn't shock me, but, even so, they haven't really done much to make us care about Allana yet. If it had been Ben, I'd have been happy and relieved, with Allana I just was left feeling as if it was a failed attempt to make us feel better after how unhappy everything had all been. It may have meant something had Jacen been able to rush to the Dragon Queen and save her despite dying of his injuries or even if we had just seen the scene with Tenal Ka hearing his plea, but as it was we have no idea whether Allana will ever know that in his dying breath her father saved her life. I'd have much rather had a scene with something like Jacen rushing to the Dragon Queen and using the Force to suck the nanokiller into himself, dying but saving their lives in the process. As it was, I felt the 'happy ending' aspect of Allana's survival was not exploited to its full potential and it was blatantly obvious Tenal Ka wouldn't have survived without Allana. I think thats more or less everything I've got to say. I appreciate its been a bit long but having not been spoiled this is the first chance I've had to vent anything on the issue and I'm still recovering. Like I say, it was a good book, but I really didn't get the feeling I was hoping for. Had the epilogue been less about setting up for Legacy and more about closing off Jacen/Caedus's story I may have felt very differently, but it was as if Jacen's death suddenly became less important than Daala becoming Chief of State. So, final answer? I'll be kind and give it an 7/10. It was a good book, despite leaving me very disappointed, so I can't really knock it. I'm afraid I can't justify giving it any higher simply because the last 50 pages or so felt terribly rushed. While its tempting to absolutely blast the story over things like Daala, I'm willing to ignore that as not really being important to the main plot, so won't knock the rating due to it. I still think Daala as Chief of State is a big fat 0/10 but Invincible itself deserves the 7. LOTF as a whole? Eugh... don't ask. I think I need more recovery time first. This was not the ending I was hoping for. And even having half expected Caedus to die this was not the death I had imagined either. I don't think I'll be able to make my mind up on LOTF until after they get into the next series and I can see how Jacen is remembered, since without any real epilogue on his family's feelings toward his death I don't know what to think. If they give him the credit he deserves for sacrificing himself to save his family, then LOTF will have done what it set out to do and in a way that I am content with. If his family never forgive him though then I'm going to be left with that upset feeling of understanding why other people have said the universe is becoming too dark.
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JediHobbit Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 5/16 7:19am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/16 7:22am (1 edits total) Edited By: JediHobbit
	Finished it last night, but I knew my review would be a little lengthy, so I saved it for today. The Good Stuff Luke: Finally Luke is been portrayed like he should have been for a long time. I would argue as early as the beginning of the NJO. Luke Skywalker, Son of Anakin, Son of the Chosen One, Son of the Son of the Suns. He uses his power and foresight primarily to guide the actions of the Order. I thought the way he was clouding Caedus’ visions was a brilliant touch. I thought the way he made tough decisions, but didn’t shirk from what needed to be done, even when it included risking his own son. I love that he could see many possible futures and was able to act so that the best possible one occurred. I thought the way that he used the Mandalorians’ nature to his advantage and against themselves was brilliant (more on this later). The Jedi Council: I really liked how the JC was handled at the beginning of the book. They knew how the conversation was going to go, but they still had to go through it and let Jaina figure it out for herself. When she figures out what they’re doing after the fact, Kyp’s just like “Yeah. What’d you expect? We’re Masters.” A funny way to spin just how powerful they all are. I’m glad we’re finally past the days of them squabbling like a bunch of kids and Corran and Kyp always at each other’s throats. They give Han the same treatment when he wants to take out his anger on the Mofference at the end, letting him figure out that it won’t help any. Jaina: Jaina finally gets her time to shine as the Sword of the Jedi. I thought her own personal struggle while still accepting what needed to be done was very well handled. She loved her brother Jacen, but Caedus is a threat that can only be exterminated. Also, I liked that she saw a clear difference between what she learned from Fett with what her own true beliefs are, and what it means to be a Jedi. She’s not just constantly in awe of the great and amazing Mand’alor. It was funny that Jaina asked Jag and Zekk to bunk with her while she was delirious from a concussion. Who says the authors don’t read fanfic? I also liked the interpretation of the Sword of the Jedi prophecy that Denning introduced. She’s not just a great Jedi warrior (though wars do not make one great ), but she has become a weapon to be used by the Jedi. Luke needs her to take on Caedus because he cannot do it without bringing vengeance. Therefore, she needs to do exactly what he needs her to so that the goal is met. Also, I thought her state of mind after killing her brother was perfect. She couldn’t bring herself to stop holding his corpse, telling herself that he’ll always live in her heart. Very beautifully done. Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo: Caedus gets his act back together and realizes that he kind of lost in the last few books. We get him doing what he thinks needs to be done. He treats Tahiri as an actual apprentice. He takes out some Mando bucketheads to get in good with the Mofference. The Nightsister blood trail thing was an awesome new power. Glad to see he learned something other than flow-walking and Force hiding during those five years. At first I thought Jaina was having a Lady Macbeth moment, which I felt could have worked well on its own, considering the guilt she felt. I thought he was really bad*** when fighting Jaina, especially with only one arm. I liked how she was even thinking “I just stabbed him through his chest with my saber! How is he still fighting!?” I probably could have done with all the needles getting stuck in him though. shudder Even as he died, he did everything he could to protect his daughter. Could this have been a sign of possible redemption? Or was he beyond hope? I’ll discuss this more a little later. And of course, I can’t talk about Caedus without discussing… The Flashbacks and Jokes: What an amazing way to really bring home the emotional impact of what’s going to happen. We get Jaina’s love for her brother to expand upon the turmoil she feels about the matter, and a view of who Jacen used to be: The carefree kid with more bad jokes than a vaudeville show. For me, these really did the job. I felt so emotionally torn when Jaina finally ended Caedus’ life, and I couldn’t help but be sad at loosing Jacen. I’d gotten so used to complaining about stupid Caedus and how he’d gone off the deep end that I had lost sight of the Jacen that I literally grew up with with the YJK books (I was 14-16 when those books were coming out). The kid that would do anything for those he loved. The guy that went above and beyond to do the right thing. It saddens me to think about what they turned Jacen into, and I’m not sure if I can ever forgive Del Rey for that. Ben: I thought his characterization was just fantastic. He acted just as a Jedi should throughout the whole novel. His interaction with the Zel twins was great. I’m soglad that he redeemed Tahiri. And what better way to do it than through understanding and compassion? I really hope we get some Jedi Ben novels in the future. Team him up with the Horn kids and let them loose on the galaxy. Flow-walking explained: It’s not time travel!!! Thank the Force! Rather, it’s more like a weird combination between reliving memories (like Caamasi memnii) and altering them, which we know Jacen is really good at. They didn’t go back so that Tahiri could kiss Anakin, just so that she could remember doing it. Her anger and betrayal at finding out that she’d never be able to actually save Anakin was genuine and well written, and worked well with her killing of Shevu to really pop the bubble of reasoning she had incased herself in. I also thought it was very poignant when Caedus reflected on his own anger that he would not be able to save his brother when first learning how to flow-walk. Just another look at the great person that Jacen used to be. Nods to Legacy: Jagged gets put in charge of the Imperial Remnant. Say hello to Emperor Fel I. My only question is when does Jaina finally realize her IWOD fate? Not only that, but Luke suggests setting up the Imperial Mission. Astraal Vao’s goingto need a home sometime down the line. Mando smackdown: They’re not as great as they think they are. They’re headstrong and stubborn, and they’re not invincible. They got used by the Jedi and didn’t realize it until half of them were dead. Their opinions can be challenged by anybody who really cares to (thank you Leia). And Jacen busting the beskar’gam with just a tap from his lightsaber showed us that nothing is perfect, no matter how much someone might want it to be. Tenel Ka’s twin cousins: What’s better than attractive Hapan royalty? When they’re twins. I thought they were great characters, able to get the job done and still have some fun. Their interaction with both Ben and Zekk was classic. I thought Zekk finally had a way to gracefully end his emotional attachment to Jaina, and then he goes and disappears into the Transitory Mists (more in a minute on this). Allana: I was genuinely concerned that she was dead, but I’m relieved that she’s not. I’m even more relieved that she’s going to be raised apart from Hapan society. Quite frankly, I feel this is the best possible outcome for her. I hate the Hapans and all they (don’t) stand for, and I’m constantly annoyed when they’re made to seem a big and critical part of the galaxy. They spent thousands of years isolated from the rest of the galaxy, so why do we care about them now? I just wish someone would have done this for Tenel Ka during the YJK. She never was always more Dathomiri than Hapan, and if her and Jacen could have been allowed to be together from the get go, we wouldn’t have had LotF we did. Plus, Han and Leia need a little joy in their lives. The So-So Stuff Zekk: I really just wanted him to end up with one of the hot Zel girls so that Jaina could be with Jag guilt free. I almost thought I’d get it too. But then his ship blew up and now he’s lost in the Mists, fate unknown. Is he dead? Did someone rescue him? Is he getting the Raynar treatment, so that he turns up in the Millenium Falcon book suddenly crazy and spewing evil, maybe with the One Sith? Or will he get the Jag treatment, returning and being really pissed off at everyone for not rescuing him? Also, they guy is thirty. Give him a kriffing last name already. Any wife he gets will have to just drop her last name instead of taking his. To bad Madonna’s not available anymore. Han & Leia in the sack: We get it, they still like each other in “that way,” but I know my parents don’t joke about sex with me. Let alone make bondage references and the like. It was funny, but awkward. I sympathize with Jaina. Jacen’s Goal Accomplished?: Though it was handled fairly horribly (which I’ll discuss in the Bad section), I can’t help but think that the ending of the war and the establishment of the new (or just healed) galactic government actually signified the accomplishment of Jacen’s original goal: the galaxy is unified and tired of war with themselves. He had to become the ultimate monster to show everyone why all the war was pointless and stupid. It’s been so long since I read Betrayal, but doesn’t Jacen mention how he would need to sacrifice himself and who he was to achieve that peace? That definitely would make his path that much more tragic. The Bad Stuff Too Short: I picked the book up off the shelf at Books-A-Million and thought to myself, “Self, this book seems kind of thin.” It was. There was virtually no epilogue. Denning tried to wrap everything up in a nice little bow in the span of less than 10 pages. There are still so many questions left: What happened to Jacen’s body? What happened with Mirta? Did she recover any more? What’s the status of the Jedi Order? How is Tahiri being rehabilitated? I feel kind of gypped that we have to wait for Millennium Falcon to get a real epilogue to this series. Maybe they decided to make the book after seeing what Denning was turning in… Shatterpoints: Okay, it was cool that they were in there, and that Luke was just like “Just because you haven’t seen me do it, doesn’t mean I can’t.” My only problem was that this shatterpoint power strikes me as very differently from Mace Windu’s. He was able to see events as shatterpoints to galactic events, and he likened it to the shatterpoints of corusca gems, but I don’t recall him physically shattering stuff with the power. Plus, Luke teaches it to Jaina, but I don’t think she really used it for anything. I t was more of a “Hey, look what I can do!” moment. Ben being treated too much like an adult: Why is a 14 year old boy able to walk into a seedy bar and order a drink that sounds like it will melt his face off? Also, why do no less than three older women find it fun to shamelessly flirt with or try to seduce the boy? Ew. Shame on you Tahiri. War? What War?: While I personally don’t mind it so much, I think it was a little too simple for everyone to agree that Daala should be the new galactic leader. Most people here on the boards are complaining that she is “insane” based off her treatment by KJA, but she’s been “off-camera” long enough that I can buy her mellowing out and genuinely turning into a very competent leader. My main problem is that after Caedus died, everyone just decides to stop fighting. What about Corellia? Did everyone else forget that they started this all? Are we all just supposed to assume that by the end Caedus was the only one being aggressive and war-like? Seriously, it’s not that easy. If it was, the series wouldn’t have been dragged out for 9 books. The Mofference: Why the hell did all the Moffs start traveling everywhere in a pack? There was no need for them to be there on the Megador. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t Moffs supposed to be more like governors and a lot less like really crappy admirals? Thank the Force that Jag is going to be running the show now. Also, I really hated the nanovirus thing. I thought it was just a cheap plot device to quickly end the Nickel One invasion and stick it to Fett by exiling him from Mandalore. On top of that, it gave Caedus a real weak reason to rationalize his needless killing of Isolder. On the plus side, it took out a bunch of backstabbing Hapans and gave Allana an excuse to disappear and be raised by her grandparents. The Verdict: 9/10 All in all, I loved it. It was no TUF, but then again LotF was no NJO. (sorry this review was so karking long) -----signature----- But they won't let me dream to live or live to dream.
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HedecGa Registered: Apr '06	Date Posted: 5/16 7:35am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	The Good: -Allana not dying/joining the family. -Jacen being responsible for saving her (and, I think, revealing that Jacen was still in him). -Jaina finding her purpose. -All the nods to Legacy--very nice. -Boba (and the Mandies) being de-Karenized, just a smidge, and brought back to being heartless sleemos instead of "noble warrior nomads who have it all together" -Ben. Always Ben. -Tahiri's redemption. The Bad: -Han and Leia. They are so busy being "in love" that they don't seem all that bothered that their children keep getting butchered. I know they've written off Jacen, but still. This is their LAST SON. I thought their lack of feelings was very cruel and unrealistic. -No Kyle -Awkward conversations/dialogue -The weird "We all know Allana is alive except Han " scenes at the end -The Tahiri seduction scene. Ick. The Odd: -Those Hapan twins. What? Kind of an odd time to introduce new characters, but I'm sure they'll play a role in upcoming books. -And that dialogue! Man, I just can't over how off-putting the dialogue was in this book. For the situation the crew was in, all the main characters seemed very detached from it and able to joke or make small talk. Yeah, yeah, "He's no longer Jacen", but he IS. A lot of denial going around. Not a lot of warmth in the Solo family right now--especially from Han. 9.5/10 -----signature----- "The Coming Evil, Book One: The Strange Man" available NOW at http://www.thecomingevil.com Author of the Dusty Duck databank entry - The 71st "Greatest Thing About Star Wars...Ever!" - SW Insider 100 Co-author of the Silya Shessaun databank entry
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sithreaper Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 5/16 8:16am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	The good Caedus was brilliant. Jaina was surprisingly entertaining. The clear explanation of flow walking was greatly appreciated. Ben Skywalker continues to develop nicely. The duels (especially the first one). Jacen smashing the Mandos. Another aspect of the shatterpoint ability been revealed. The revelation of what it means to be the sword of the Jedi. The rather gritty death of Darth Caedus. Tahiri rocks my boat (as much as a fictional character can) The Bad Not enough Luke To much Han & Leia What the hell was happening in regards to the rest of the galaxy? The Jedi where far to ruthless for my liking (sending Jaina to assassinate Jacen, screwing the mandos and killing GAG troopers indiscriminately) Jag Fel promotion was rushed and a tad ridiculous Chief of State Daala – absolutely bloody ridiculous Rating 8/10 I have to say after this book I don’t really know if theirs any interesting stories that can be told in the immediate post legacy era.
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