Author Topic: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
Havac 
Title: Lit Mod of Awayness
Registered: Sep '05
13743_Han Solo
Date Posted: 5/18 6:09pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
I have to say, having some time behind reading it . . . I'm rather disappointed. The writing was enjoyable, it was a fun little adventure . . . but as the end to a nine-book series, it wasn't up to snuff. The Confederation . . . just not there. Niathal . . . just not there. The whole setup of the big picture in Revelation, with the Jedi joining Niathal's splinter GA was completely ignored. Niathal was utterly ignored. Daala was ignored until the complete WHAT THE HELL moment of her CoS promotion. Wedge was ignored. Instead of integrating the Mando-Verpine alliance as I expected for a satisfying role . . . they just kind of hung out. All the setup of an actual resolution was ignored so that we could have about three commando missions, a fleet battle, and then Jacen's dead and all magically turns to confetti raining down from the sky and the five or so factions just decide offscreen that ain't peace great. Total letdown.

I'm not even sure what to think about Caedus's fate, so I'll leave that off. I liked the way he was written -- the scene where he confronts the moffs could have been Vader. He was great here. Ben was enjoyable, even if his being a knight was silly. Women hitting on him was . . . creepy. Not cool. Denning has too big a tendency to indulge himself with these sort of weird bits, and it just comes off as odd.

So overall, a book that was fun to read . . . but just not very satisfying.

6.5/10

 

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Havac 
Title: Lit Mod of Awayness
Registered: Sep '05
13743_Han Solo
Date Posted: 5/18 6:13pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
Average score: 292.74/39 = 7.51

 

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WraithLead 
Registered: Nov '01
6624_X-Wing Fighter
Date Posted: 5/18 6:19pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
Havac posted:
So overall, a book that was fun to read . . . but just not very satisfying.

6.5/10


I gave it a 7/10, so almost the same score, but for slightly different reasons. it makes me wonder how an overall LotF series rating affects individual feeling about the book. Like, if you loved the series, did this book being a letdown as you describe make you rate it lower, whereas I wasn't really into the whole series, so it not being satisfying wasn't a big deal to me, therefore, i can rate the book higher.

 

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Smin 
Registered: May '02
6482_Exar Kun
Date Posted: 5/19 11:32am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
Just finished reading it. I'm going to have to go with the majority and say that even though it was an entertaining read, I didn't like how the ending was done. I was also surprised that there was no dialog between Jaina and Jacen during either of the fights. I thought he would be trying to seduce her to the Dark Side or something. I didn't find that disappointing, just surprising.

Going to give it a 7.0/10

 

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SithGirl132 
Registered: Dec '05
18627_R2 Jones
Date Posted: 5/19 11:35am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
I'd like to begin this review with saying I've never had such strong emotion overall about any book. And I've never cried so much over any book, either.

I was very much anticipating Invincible, since it seemed that this would be the real action-packed one with all the surprises. Well, I was certainly surprised. Caedus' death was something that I knew was going to happen, but didn't want to acknowledge, and it was certainly terrifying. Daala's promotion to Chief of State was quite the bombshell; in the past she has stated she doesn't want political power, and now... oh well, it must be for the better?

The ending resolved itself a little too quickly and cleanly. I don't like how suddenly, everyone likes each other now that Caedus is dead, and everything will go back to normal or some reasonable facsimile thereof. That could have been done better.

I did like Denning's technique of making it seem like a character was dead and later re-introduces them alive. I was terrified that Allana really was dead, so it was a nice surprise to see her alive again at the very end. The general flow was great,a long with the constant tense moments.

Yes, it could have been better, but LOTF was not the best of SW literature... 8/10.

 

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s65horsey 
Title: EUC Manager
SWC Lil' Sis

Registered: Jun '06
46075_Cade Skywalker
Date Posted: 5/19 12:03pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
I loved the first 2/3 of the book. I thought it was well written, the characterizations were good. I loved seeing Artoo and C3PO back and involved in some capacity. I enjoyed the Jacen jokes at the beginning of each chapter and the contrast between those and how Jacen is now. That was an excellent tool used by Denning, imo.

Leia/Jaina/Ben mission - enjoyed this part, though Ben still isn't acting like a Jedi completely which I guess makes him unique, but the hero complex in that respect is going to get old fast for me.
Jedi Council - loved seeing the interactions between the characters. I think this was my favorite part of the book because Denning was able to incorporate a lot of characters for this part and the missions. It is always nice to see people mentioned who should be. (Minor complaint about the new "Derek" Jedi Knight, we have plenty of others who could have been used including Valin, Jysella, and the ones in Betrayal.) I like how the Council was shown to be wise and powerful in that they predicted Jaina's request and had already discussed things.

Jaina/Jacen duel #1 - I thought this was good. I liked how powerful he made Jacen and I loved the idea of Luke using visions against him in order to bring him down. The technique of thinking he was fighting Luke was something different for the story (unless this has been done in comics, if so please tell me). Employing different tactics to bring down a Sith was interesting and needed. I do wonder why Jaina wasn't told about this though. Could she have ruined it if she had known? Was it necessary to keep a secret from her?

Ben's Captivity - like I stated above, I hated this part. Tahiri was never a Sith, she was pretending, imo in order for the Anakin thing. Because of this notion, which was again reinforced throughout the book with her actions and hesitants, I don't think she ever should have tried to seduce a 14 year old. That sickened me while I was reading the book. I don't think I have ever been disgusted like that before while reading a SW book. I dislike Shevu being killed off as he was an interesting character and one of Ben's only friends. I enjoyed Ben's escape though.

Leia/Han - loved them in this book. I think they were acting like they should have and I enjoyed their working with Luke and acceptance of what needed to be done. They have been written to be accepting of this for many books now, so I was glad to see that hadn't changed.

Luke - I loved this mysterious, grandmaster Luke. I think he did well to respect Ben's wishes at being treated like any other Jedi Knight and trusting in the force that he'd be able to take care of himself. Luke showed great cunning and poise in the face of the Sith and was able to outmaneuver him with those ideas. I think before I would've been ok with seeing Luke step aside, but if he's continued to be written in this capacity then I want him to stay around. I've only skimmed a few reviews after typing this up, but felt the need to add that I find it interesting people don't like this Luke. I didn't like the whiny Luke, but a cunning grandmaster, oh yeah, this is what I've always wanted.

Last 1/3 of the book was something else entirely and not in a good way:

Jaina/Jacen round 2 - This is where the book falls short imo. This duel has been coming since book 1 when he court marshaled Jaina and possibly further back because the Vong wanted it during the NJO. I was disappointed at how short it seemed while reading the book. I also was disappointed that the entire rest of the book set out to show that Jacen was irredeemable, completely, totally, no questions asked and then at the last minute bobbled and made it kinda gray. I don't think Jacen was redeemed. I agree with those that say he was still somehow doing that for himself or out of selfishness. This ending almost ruined the book for me though. I was so excited about this book and hoping for a Jacen death and to have him be a bad guy, but in this capacity he's almost like Vader again, which I didn't want. At the last minute he sacrificed himself to save his child. Which is why it is gray for me on whether he was redeemed or not.

Daala - I don't even know how to comment on this. I am flabbergasted.

Jag - I don't see Jag as being slapped into the Moff's, I kinda like this but I'm looking towards Legacy (comic) and hoping this connects the two a bit.

The score would've been higher if not for the last thought of Jacen, the Daala thing, and Tahiri seducing Ben which made me feel ill.

Overall - 8.5

 

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tjace 
Registered: Feb '08
20054_R2-D2
Date Posted: 5/19 3:22pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
I liked this book. Within the first few chapters, Denning fixed all the characterization problems with Jaina and the Mandos. Jaina is wary of them, and does not take everything Fett says as true or right. The Mandos are portrayed as the mercenaries we always knew they were, and the Jedi do not idolize them. I was so tired of hearing about them, but when Luke, Han and Leia used the Mandalorians and talked back to all that "what about the clones?" stuff, I was relieved.
Jaina is finally the Sword of the Jedi in this book. She is in no way equal to Caedus' power, but manages to keep attacking until Luke's help takes effect. The seduction scene with Ben was creepy, but he was a good character IMO, and not focused on for 200 pages. The battle scenes were good, and most everything was spot-on. Even the abrupt ending wasn't too bad because I was still dwelling on the fight, and Denning quickly wrapped up his ugly loose ends.

The length was a small problem: this was supposed to be a grand finale, and while the 299 pages felt like it, it didn't bring everything from the whole series together. And while everyone else might automatically throw down their guns and sing kumbaya, the Corellians never would. They are one of the most stubborn cultures in the EU, and they are not about to back down and go peacefully when that same stubbornness was the reason they started the war. It should be easier to negotiate before the conflict than in the middle when it's at full swing. The death of one man, even a Sith Lord, should not be a deus ex machina in a cultural conflict like this. Also, the shatterpoint: while it was really cool, neither Jaina nor Caedus used it during the second duel, which left me wondering why Denning had her learn it in the first place.

Overall, this was a very good read and I will give it an 8.5

 

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Havac 
Title: Lit Mod of Awayness
Registered: Sep '05
13743_Han Solo
Date Posted: 5/19 3:37pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
Average score: 324.74/43 = 7.55

 

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King_of_Red_Lions 
Registered: Mar '03
41081_KDY Insignia
Date Posted: 5/19 5:01pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/19 5:06pm (1 edits total) Edited By: King_of_Red_Lions
I'll take Han and Leia's advice and believe that Caedus is not Jacen. My Jacen died fighting Omini. He was a hero. I love this character and his philosophy and his powers and I hate it that he devolved into a megalomaniac. I believed Lumiya's assertations and in the Truth of the Tassels and Jacen's grander destiny and the concept that a Sith need not be evil to rule. I suppose I was as naive as Jacen. Though Denning characterized him somewhat better in this novel - it is tragic what happened to his character. I wish it had been Jaina instead because the Solo name ends here, folks. Seriously, if I had been at the round table discussion batting around names of who should fall, I'd suggest Jaina - or another minor character.


I believe there will be consequences of the Council's decision to murder Caedus. Jaina, especially, is in danger of falling - her Manalorian training skirts awful close to the dark side. The body count around Jaina's mission to assassinate Caedus was impressive. She sliced four innocents in half with one swipe of her saber on the Anakin Solo. She slauhtered one dozen Stormtroopers while infiltrating Nickel One simply because it was necessary to ensure the secrecy of her mission. Almost on the same page, she rationalizes sparing a squad of Mandalorians because it is not Jedi-like to kill people because their presence is an inconvenience. Where was that Jedi-like mercy on the previous page? She killed guards and soldiers without a second thought. Wake up, folks - who killed more people in this novel? The evil, maniacal Lord of the Sith who cannot be allowed to live? Or the self-righteous, hypocritical Sword of the Jedi?

Fett is banned from Mandalore? Priceless. Karen Traviss must hate that - along with some of the other things Denning wrote about Fett, i.e, being out of his league matching wit and cold calculation with Luke Skywalker. One question about the nanovirus - Wouldn't it kill anyone with Jango Fett blood? There are probably many descendents of clones in or around Mandalore, including Venku. And what keeps it from hopping aboard a spaceship and spreading across the galaxy?

Hard Covers in the NJO were epic: SBS 600+ pages, TUF 500+, DW 450+ - This book was too short and had an incomplete ending - there was almost no resolution except personally between Jaina and Jacen. Denning's previous effort in the LOTF series, Inferno, was also very short. Is this the same man that brought us SBS?

Jacen dying near an incinerator created an opportunity for a traditional SW-funeral pyre - Denning did not take advantage. I especially enjoyed the imagery of the dark and light portions of the room and Jacen and Jaina dashing and dancing between the two. I for one couldn't tell you which of the yin-yang twins was the light-sider and which was the dark-sider.

I am fascinated by the Tatooine Ghost vision and what it means, exactly.

I believe Tahiri should have ran.


Daala is guilty of more atrocious crimes than Caedus but the general population - including the Jedi - accept her with open arms? Because she can't use the Force doesn't mean she should be trusted with the reins of the galaxy. And the Correlians give up just like that? Caedus wasn't the driving force behind the war. The war came first. His death does not change the principles behind which Corellia and her allies defected in the first place. I don't buy the peace.


There were many things I was disappointed in and surprised by in this book. Overall, I had a great time reading it despite its shortcomings as a finale. It was written well like all of Denning's SW novels.

6.5/10

 

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canadianjedimama 
Registered: Jan '08
46075_Cade Skywalker
Date Posted: 5/19 5:01pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/19 5:12pm (1 edits total) Edited By: canadianjedimama
I've been trying to write a review for this book for close to three weeks, but I just can't figure out what to say or exactly how to say it.

I just want to give Becca's review a huge applause . I feel very much the same way, although I'll never be able to express it so well.

But it bugs me that I haven't typed this up every time I flick over to Lit, so here it goes:

I LOVED this book. And I hated it. It shocked me, made me laugh and made me cry. I finished it and just sat there holding it, wondering WTK?

And that was awesome.


THINGS I LOVED: Jaina's newfound sense of maturity. It was nice to see her actually act like a 30 year old woman who knew what she was about, instead of a spoiled selfish teenager.

Leia was just totally badass in her undercover mission with Ben and Jaina. It's taken 40 freakin' years, but she's finally coming into her Jedi heritage. Praise the Force!

Jacen, still insane but not crazy. That coupled with his truly frightening repetoire of Force Tricks was absolutely fantastic.

The Jacen/Jaina duels were absolutely wicked. The ferocity with which they were written is chilling. There is no doubt at all from the first line that these are battles to the death. My mouth was literally hanging open reading them.

Luke Skywalker's badassery knows no bounds. I love that he's not wallowing anymore. Yee Haw!



THINGS I HATED: That all that space battling and political intrigue from the previous novels was dropped like a hot potato. Dammit! Why did I have to read all that if it was only going to be a "Oh well, this is what happend" line in the final book. A bit of a "grrrr" moment for me. And I'm not even a Fleet Junkie.

The whole Ben/Tahiri...thing. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that it was nothing more than a ackbasswards attempt to showcase the depth's of Ben's moral centre, how he was never in any real danger of fall into the darkness, but sheesh...I can't read the bloody thing without hearing "Mrs. Robinson" playing through my head. And that just ain't right. I think I would have preferred Ben back in the Embrace of Pain than that...but meh.

Luke Skywalker's badassery knows no bounds. Yeah, you're reading this right, I both hated and loved Luke in this book. I'm glad he's not all emo anymore BUT I find it hard to reconcile the farmboy from ANH to the coldly calculating and manipulative Jedi Master we have here. The ruthlessness with which he just...decides...how the galaxy should be run. A tiny bit too much like old Palpy for my taste. Only without the wrinkles. *shudders*

The Death of Jacen Solo. Yeah, you're reading this right, too. I didn't want Jacen to die. I think it was a huge cop out on the part of the editors to do this. There was soooo much more potential in leaving him alive. Stripped of the Force, vulnerable, badly beaten, incarcerated...whatever. But ALIVE. Was it too much to ask? Apparently. *sigh*


WHAT SHOCKED ME: The graphic nature of the duel scenes. Denning is a master of writing the fight scene in Star Wars. Hands down. But Jacen springing up like Hellraiser during the final fight with Jaina. Dude...I almost tossed my cookies. I don't think that was quite necessary. Unless of course he was trying to match Jacen's outward appearance with the state of his soul, then well...okay. But I think that I'm probably reading too much into it there.


WHAT MADE ME LAUGH: Leia "charming" her way through the crowd during the Coruscant mission. And Jaina wondering what her sixty year old Mom has got that she doesn't...how long a list do ya want, Jaya?

Jaina propositioning both Jag and Zekk after her head injury...priceless.

And the Battlesun Odessy reference...very funny.


WHAT MADE ME CRY: The little jokes of Jacen's and the flashbacks to the YJK were poignant and heartbreaking. How far he's fallen...broke my heart. Jaina, realizing at the last second, that he'd stopped fighting, he'd given up trying to preserve his own life...but that she couldn't stop.

Then her sitting, broken and near death herself, cradling his head in her lap and whispering to him.

cry I literally had tears pouring down my face.


LUKE SKYWALKER AND THE STAR DESTROYER OUT OF LEFT FIELD: I love Jag Fel. Anybody who know me knows that but seriously, what in the nine Corellian hells is up with making him head Moff????? He goes from Jedi civilian employee to King of the Heap? Are you kidding me? Although the ease with which both he and the Moffs acquiesced to this...plan...of Luke's is highly suspiscious. As well as how they call him Commander Fel...I smell a C-O-N-SPIRACY.

But that's a whole 'nother book. wink


DAALA AS COS: Um..yeah. It's stupid. I hate it. And...yeah. That's all I have to say about that.


Overall, I'd give this book an 8.5/10. It loses a whole point for chumping-out and killing Jacen. Another half point off for the whole fleet/Daala debacle. My feelings overall: Get the book. Read it. You know you want to. And you will love it. I have forseen it.

peace
CJM

PS..My apologies if this is incoherent....it was written during while my three year old was having a temper tantrum because I wouldn't give her a Rolaid. Don't ask. rolling_eyes

 

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bkbva 
Registered: Nov '05
46075_Cade Skywalker
Date Posted: 5/19 5:06pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
First time reviewer, just felt I wanted to add a thought or two.

As a stand alone book, it's not bad. It's full of action and it's a very quick read. That's good.

As the ending of a nine book series of a few thousand pages, I ask, exactly what's the payoff of the last two years of reading? I think this is a bad habit of Denning's -- he gets the action going real well, but when he gets to the climax and denouement, he's lost. It was this way at the end of Dark Nest, too. "Oh, you mean I need to write an ending?"

I won't go into the details; others have done that much better than I could. Many of them have gone into incredible detail of what they find wrong, and then give what appears to me to be an inflated score.

This book is nothing more than average. And I'm probably being generous.
On a scale of ten, average equals the midpoint of:
5/10

 

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The2ndQuest 
Title: :
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-Lit Mod of Death

Registered: Jan '00
45729_Ithorian "Hammerhead"
Date Posted: 5/19 5:20pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/19 5:55pm (1 edits total) Edited By: The2ndQuest
bkbva posted:
I think this is a bad habit of Denning's -- he gets the action going real well, but when he gets to the climax and denouement, he's lost. It was this way at the end of Dark Nest, too. "Oh, you mean I need to write an ending?"


Dark Nest'S ending could be written off as "a setup for LOTF", but as the end of LOTF, I do agree the lack of resolution in some areas is...irritating, especially given how enjoyable a read the book is overall.

 

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Havac 
Title: Lit Mod of Awayness
Registered: Sep '05
13743_Han Solo
Date Posted: 5/19 5:33pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
Average score: 344.74/46 = 7.49

 

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LordRevan19 
Registered: Mar '05
39860_Yoda
Date Posted: 5/20 1:28am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/20 1:35am (1 edits total) Edited By: LordRevan19
I just got done reading the book. As I was walking into Borders I was expecting to pick up a hardcover book that was about the same size as Betrayal if not more, and was disapointed to pick up 299 pages that was supposed to be the finale of a 9 book series. But, as the old saying goes don't judge a book....In the end, I liked it. I loved the fight scenes between Cadeus and Jaina, especially the last one. It was a good book, but I was left wanting more but I guess the author did his job then. I was happy that Allana and Mirta didn't die. One of my favorite parts of the series that I really enjoyed was the Boba Fett/Mandalorians story. I felt like we didn't get any closure with Boba, just that he can't return to Mandalore and we didn't see his reaction to Mirta still being alive. All in all, great series and a good ending. I don't feel too robbed or anything, just not enough Boba Fett lol Can't wait for the new Millenium Falcon book.
7.5/10


Good Stuff

 

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morrison85 
Registered: May '05
43726_Shado Vao
Date Posted: 5/20 2:27am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/20 2:43am (1 edits total) Edited By: morrison85
My first impression of the first pages was : are they really dedicate a whole book for the planning how and who takes Caedus down?
I liked to see Isolders half sisters , good fun .
fortunately I could see that it the first attempt was over and the book wasn't finished.(Although it was a pretty good attempt.I found the Ben /Tahiri scenes a bit corny.(Like: what?! she is not going to seduce a 14 year old o.O)
Although Luke helped Jaina a bit with projecting himself to Jacen I was still considering him a wanker there, or maybe the force is a wanker there,(in making him a sith in his visions) tongue
I wondered where suddenly the Moffs had the nanokillers from . Wasn't that a weapon by the chiss originally?
I don't think it was necessary to change Allanas name, Tenel ka was safe on the academy so should allana be.

I liked the outlook, I wonder how long it is to millenium Falcon . If the time is stable for a considerate time, how many years are that? imo it should be more than ten years after all the old republic was for ages, but yet that would made han too old huh? I'd like some more Ben action in that book too.

All in all i'd give it a 7/10

(By the way i don't think it was a bad series, inbetween the books of legacy i ve read dark nest and it was pretty boring and pointless for me.. only good thing was allana to be born and the second hints of darker Jacen)

 

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