Jedi Council Forums - The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)

Jedi Council Forums » Star Wars Books & Comics » Literature »

Post Reply | Active Topic Notification | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 » - ~~Previous~~ | Next | Reload

Author	Topic: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 5/13 1:07pm Subject: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	It's the LOTF finale! The moment we've all been waiting for (some for different reasons than others) is here at last! Will Jacen die? Will he be redeemed? Will he be captured by Wes Janson and his fearless tribe of Ewoks? Read and find out! Some rules: rate Invincible on a scale of 1 to 10, supplementing your rating with a review, if you want to (It's not necessary but is highly encouraged). However, please do not rate or review the book until after you've read the whole thing. Thanks. Go for it. Some previous review threads: Republic Commando: Hard Contact, by Karen Traviss Shatterpoint, by Matthew Stover The Cestus Deception, by Steven Barnes Medstar I: Battle Surgeons, by Michael Reaves and Steve Perry Medstar II: Jedi Healer, by Michael Reaves and Steve Perry Jedi Trial, by David Sherman and Dan Cragg Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, by Sean Stewart Labyrinth of Evil, by James Luceno Revenge of the Sith, by Matthew Stover Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader by James Luceno Galaxies: The Ruins of Dantooine, by Veronica Whitney-Robinson Tatooine Ghost, by Troy Denning Survivor's Quest, by Timothy Zahn Enemy Lines I: Rebel Dream, by Aaron Allston Enemy Lines II: Rebel Stand, by Aaron Allston Traitor, by Matthew Stover Destiny's Way, by Walter Jon Williams Force Heretic I: Remnant, by Sean Williams and Shane Dix Force Heretic II: Refugee, by Sean Williams and Shane Dix Force Heretic III: Reunion, by Sean Williams and Shane Dix The Final Prophecy, by Greg Keyes The Unifying Force, by James Luceno Dark Nest I: The Joiner King, by Troy Denning Dark Nest II: The Unseen Queen, by Troy Denning Dark Nest III: The Swarm War, by Troy Denning Outbound Flight, by Timothy Zahn Republic Commando: Triple Zero, by Karen Traviss Legacy of the Force: Betrayal, by Aaron Allston Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines, by Karen Traviss Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, by Drew Karpyshyn Legacy of the Force: Tempest, by Troy Denning Allegiance, by Timothy Zahn Legacy of the Force: Exile, by Aaron Allston Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice, by Karen Traviss Legacy of the Force: Inferno, by Troy Denning Death Star, by Michael Reaves and Steven Perry Republic Commando: True Colors, by Karen Traviss Legacy of the Force: Fury, by Aaron Allston Darth Bane: Rule of Two, by Drew Karpyshyn Legacy of the Force: Revelation, by Karen Traviss -----signature----- "If Havac was a pinata, when you beat him all that would come out is win." - Uli Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Sexually Ambiguous Tusken Raider™ and a Special Golden Ewok™ "Reality doesn't care if you believe it." - Boba Fett
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Darth_Monopoly Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 5/13 1:26pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	Hmm.... First off, I have to say that I have enjoyed the series thus far, and have been anticipating this book for a long time, and even managed to keep myself spoiler free! (That was tough.) And this book delivered. Pretty much everything I had hoped for, and more, all in a neat little package. The Good Pretty much everything. - I felt the characterization was spot on. - Jacen's descent into dementia I had seen coming, and Denning delivered. - Jaina finally got her chance to shine, and shine she did. - The jokes at the beginning of each chapter was a nice touch. Being the YJK fan I am, it really made what happened in this book much more meaningful. - Ben has transformed into the Jedi Knight I knew he would become. - It was nice to see that Tahiri was able to be redeemed. The explanation of flow-walking was helpful too. - Jaina's realization at the end that "Jacen had won" was excellent too. With what Daala becoming Chief of State and all. - Jag's "placement" at the head of the Moffs. - The humor was spot on as well. - Jaina and Caedus's fights, both of them. - Luke's subtle manipulations of the Force visions Caedus was having in order to blind him to Jaina was a very good twist, along with his "Force masking". - Trista and Taryn were very interesting characters. - Much more that I cannot think of at this time. - Although it was short, it was action-packed. The Bad - It could have been longer. - I felt an epilogue would have been nice, but the ending was good anyway. - I would have liked to know more about some characters, like Wedge and Gavin. Overall, I was very satisfied. 9.9/10 -----signature----- Everything I tell you is a lie.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Manisphere Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 5/13 5:49pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	This book, set alone and apart from the 9 book arc called Legacy of the Force, is fine. I say fine and not great because of its terribly abrupt ending and Han Solo remarking that Daala won't make such a bad leader. WHA??!!! Invincible, was not nearly as enthralling to me as Inferno was but it was fine. The thing I love most about this book is Ben Skywalker and his treatment by Denning. For that I give it some points. I do like how things played out with Tahiri and Ben. I also like Ben's wisdom in understanding Jacen better than most of us fan-boys and girls. Disheartened by Invincible and its very abrupt unapologetic ending, (which I maintain is the saddest EU book of all time) I picked up Solo Command moments later to reassure myself that SW books can be fun. So that's not a great sign but I got right into Solo Command. Invincible has problems. If it weren't the last book of a 2 year 9 book cycle it wouldn't be so bad. Not at all but...it was. And Invincible gives any Star Wars EU fan a handful of hopelessness. I invested what? $130 bucks or something in LOTF to end bleak, wonderless, and near hopeless. Not even a Luke Skywalker with a soul left to reassure us the readers that this galaxy is a bit safer. Cause it isn't. It's as messed up as ever just like the "real world". I just don't buy SW to remind me of here. And unfortunately for Luke and his Order things aren't going to get better for at least 100 years. If anything, this novel begs the reader to take up reading Legacy Comics. Without Legacy Comics Invincible would have been a more nebulous experience for me. That being said, I don't dislike this book. I'm surprised and disappointed by the lack of emotional catharsis in this series so it loses points for that. I don't like the idea of waiting until January for my true epilogue. Invincible was no Unifying Force and this series really needed one. So, it's a very good thing Luceno is penning Millennium Falcon. Still Invincible gets a 7/10 from me. It's been a hard book to rate actually. Had the book been fleshed out a bit more my grade would have been well above 8. LOTF as a whole gets a 7/10. The writers are better than the books they wrote.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
NelanisGhost Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 5/13 5:53pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	Manishere: Han was delirious with grief, or in shock. -----signature----- There is no such thing as revenge, you will NOT give as good as you got. There is no such thing as an eye for an eye, if you think you're the Giver, you're not. There is no such thing as regret, there is no point in placing the blame.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Manisphere Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 5/13 5:55pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	NelanisGhost posted: Manishere: Han was delirious with grief, or in shock. I sure hope so.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Sniper_Wolf Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 5/13 6:19pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	People talk about how you can never fully give up hope for redemption. This is the post no one on this board, especially me, has expected. Star by Star, despite some flaws, is the best NJO outing. Tatooine Ghost is a nice little side story. Then came Dark Nest, the only trilogy I have sworn never to reread again. Tempest and Inferno had some nice prose distracted by an illogical plot. However I should have kept my faith in Denning much like Luke kepts his in Vader's. Legacy of the Force is riddled with flaws. The exposition and climax were just bad. The rising and falling actions were meh with an exception each, oddly enough for me the last two Allston novels. Then enter the denouement. Denning finally bring backs the promise he had. Length At 299 pages the novel does appear extremely short for a nine book conclusion. Denning, very much to my surprise, cuts the plot down to what needs to be shown. Of importance notice is the point-of-view characters. Denning is very sparse in who is telling the action. Caedus, Ben, Han, and Jaina are the only narrators. Make no mistake Invincible is Jaina's novel. As someone who has considered Jaina my favorite Solo child since way back in the boondocks of like six years ago when I first read Vector Prime I am giddy with joy over Jaina stealing the spotlight. A novel that is of apt comparision is The Unifying Force, a sprawling 500+ page epic compared to Denning's brevity. Now to give Luceno the benefit of the doubt he had twice as many novels in New Jedi Order. However Luceno is busy using his standard lists while introducing new polt elements into the narrative while bring resolution to the war. Denning instead focuses on wrapping up the remaing plot threads only introducing the Remnant's nanovirus which affects future novels. As someone who has ragged on and on about how much filler there is in LOTF seeing a slimer and leaner volume makes great reading. Lord Caedus Denning also did frankly what I considered beyond impossible: Darth Caedus is finally a credible villain. The former Jacen Solo has presence, obession, darkness, and a minute slimer of good left in the void known as his soul. One little act made Caedus finally worthy of Kun, Malak, Vader, and His Imperial Majesity. Vatok is giving Caedus crap with that vaunted character shield armor Karen Traviss is so in love with. Caedus decides to shatterpoint the armor before killing Vatok. Then Caedus uses his blood to track down the hidden Jedi base. It doesn't matter that Caedus learns these skills of screen. What matters is Caedus, out of nowhere, smacks Jaina (and by extenion the reader) with a left hook hidden behind his Sith back. My god where was this cunning and surprise all the way back in book one? "Leave out the part where you suggest I'm insane. I really have no interest in your opinion regarding that." Excellence's opinion of Denning's dialogue skills As we have read many many times about our fellow Aussie going on and on about how naturally Denning's characters speak in Tatooine Ghost. For some reason it just clicked in this novel. While a few dumb metaphors and similies are still present the dialogue in Invincible is very smooth for an EU novel. Take Caedus' revelation to Tahiri about the flow walking. Now that's some of the best dialogue I have ever seen in SW, EU or film. I say again why the hell wasn't this back all the way in book one? Luke Skywalker, realpolitik Not only does our Grand Master has a spine the Luke in this novel by far is the most pragmatic incarnation of Mark Hamill. Although not physically active in Caedus' down fall Luke is the puppet master in this novel. Using the Mandalorians for distractions, driving Caedus ape **** because of Luke's tampering with visions and the projection over Jaina, not telling Jaina and Leia about how Ben was supposed to be captured, wow this is great. LOTF claimed to show a more ambigious war, Luke finally does it. He knew what had to be done to stop Caedus, and by god did Luke do that regardless of what anyone thought. Good characterization of Luke while showing the lightsaber is not always the most powerful tool at a Jedi's disposal. I'm still not entirely sold on the whole "Oh Luke will go dark if he stops Caedus" though Jaina makes up for it. The Sword of the Jedi If Jaina fans did not have a nerdgasm while reading this novel then I'll challenge their Jaina fandom. Funny how Revelation trashes Jaina to have her best post-NJO novel follow it. Jaina clearly knows what must be done to end the war, but deep down inside she really does not want to. Jaina still holds onto the sliver of hope that Jacen still exists until the big reveal about Caedus' blood. Jaina holding her fallen brother after Caedus' death was sad yet so artfully done. Jaina learning shatterpoint and whipping several Jedi at the same time rocked so hard. Mando'a I know you invented this incarnation of bucketheads KT, but Denning out did you this time around that it almost makes up for having Jaina train with Boba in Revelation. Denning took the good from the Traviss incarnation, added a few shots of the old school Mandalorians, and created a truly interesting creation. The raport between Jaina and Boba was excellent. Also of notice is when Boba comes to see Jaina after the first Caedus duel. If KT were writing that scene all the characters would bow in awe over Boba's truthful analysis of the Jedi treatment of clones during the Clone Wars. "We know how they treated the clones." "Probably because they had a sense of who the clones were really serving," Leia countered. "Blind obedience deserves even less respect than mercenary-" And that little exchange illustrates the difference between Denning and Traviss. Denning actualy shows a counterpoint leaving the reader to decide what to believe. Does the final LOTF book make up for the Mandalorians inclusion in the series? I'm not sure, but at least Denning does not make them so annoying and preachy this time around. Mortal Kombat[b] The fights kicked all kinds of *** in this novel. Jaina's infiltration of Roche, especially the first Jaina/Caedus duel, and the final duel in Anakin Solo's trashcan were suspenseful, original, and intelligently thought out. Really, blocking a grenade with a dead buckethead made me want to squeal all night. No typical saber smacking is present in this novel. Caedus shrugging off his arm getting cut off just makes it so much better. [b]Ben and Tahiri The only signficant subplot in the novel brought great resolution to two plots honestly I felt was stupid from the get go. Tahiri seducing Ben made for great laughs besides illustrating the essential difference between Tahiri and Caedus (I'll explain later on). Ben finally did live up to the legacies of his parents. His actions show a great man in the making. Showing Tahiri only followed Caedus based on false hopes over Anakin is a nice change from your standard "I'm an evil sadist" Sith routine. Humor Aaron Allston, please read this novel. Maybe you can learn a thing or two. The novel is filled with pitch black humor helping to keep the novel from turing too dark and depressing. In contrast to Allston's random diatribes Denning uses the humor to advance the plot, show characterization between people that really deep down hate each other, and lightening the tone. Epigraphs and Flashbacks I almost wanted to cry every time I started a new chapter. Traviss' epigraphs are nice little info tidbits in her novels. Denning's epigraphs create a dualism between past and presence to help illustrate the depths Jacen had fell into his dark fall. The contrast between childhood innocence and adult realism gives depth to Caedus when he really needed it. The flashbacks do the same thing. Flashbacks are uncommon in the EU. Usually flashbacks are used in the case of time jumps, Rule of Two, or filling in backstories like Darth Krayt. Denning's brief flashbacks has the same effect his epigraphs have. Denning, where you truly stoned during Dark Nest and the earlier LOTF novels only to finally become sober? The Death of Darth Caedus and Redemption This is the big one. Simply put Caedus had to die. Many posters on this board are going "Why is Caedus not given redemption?" Contrasting Tahiri and Caedus illustrates the difference. Tahiri is revolted over Shevu to the point that she returns to the light. Going back to Bloodlines Jacen is revolted over killing his prisoner only he never stops. Caedus views everyone except Allana as an enemy. The only time Caedus wants to stop for a brief moment is when his daughter is in the line of fire instead of wanting to stop over the countless murders Caedus did. First thing an alcoholic must do to stop their addiction is to admit they have one. Caedus never admited his addiction. Because of that minor thing Caedus is incapable of redemption. Therefor Caedus had to die to save the galaxy. The Bad There is a few things I did not like in the novel that prevents it from reaching perfect status. First I wondered why the Moffs are always present at these battles. You already know the second one. Chief of State Daala is just flat out stupid in or out of context. Go reread KJA's EU novels. Tell me that person is going to become chief of state. Verdict Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Invincible gave beautiful resolution to a stinking corpse of a series. Denning reminds the world, despite a really big stupid in the last four pages, that he can actually write. Love, hate, hopes, dreams, obessions, deaths, light, and dark permiate this novel. A beautiful and rewarding tragedy with hope that far excels the standard tie-in novel I can give this novel no less than 8.5/10. I'm watching you now Denning. If you devolve back into bugs I'll be most unpleased. -----signature----- Winner of a Super Golden Ewok™ award. I name you Sword of the Jedi. Always you shall be in the front rank, a burning brand to your enemies, a brilliant fire to your friends.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 5/13 6:51pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	Overall, I give it a 5.5/10 (Re-posted from Invincible discussion thread) I was a little disappointed with the book. It seemed to be for serving no other purpose than hastily ending the series. Jacen is killed, the Empire put under Fel, the Alliance reformed at Luke's direction, and Daala the new Chief of State. As for the Confederation, you get a feeling that they suddenly disbanded without any good explantion. Let me clarify one point- I am not complaining that Caedus is defeated, the GA restored, or that the Jedi are once again the saviors of the galaxy. I have been wanting those things to happen all along. However, the way it was handled was, IMO, not well and to rushed. Not only that, but the sudden amnesia people seem to have. For the love of the Force, when did Daala become a sane, benevolent leader? Han Solo actually tells Jaina not to worry, arguing that Daala may be a good leader for the GA. Wait, wasn't Han tortured by Daala? Apparently he can forgive and forget with ease. Like I said- I am thrilled that the Galactic Alliance is rid of Jacen. I am thrilled that the GA and Confederation will be at peace. I am also happy that Luceno is writing the Millenium Falcon novel. It is up to him to sort things out and explain how the galaxy is back at peace again. I have faith that Luceno can do it. One last thought on Daala. She acts out of character, to be sure. She sounds like any of the sane, level headed GA senators we have heard in the past, other than her veiled hint that the galaxy did not need the Jedi to always sort things out. Which begs the question- why did Denning decide to use Daala? With all the choices out there, it just seems like a poor one. Unless he did it as a huge joke, it doesn't make much sense. Anyways, I am happy that we can move forward out of LOTF. I am opptomistic about the future of the EU. But... you do get a sense that LOTF served no other purpose than to kill a few characters and then return to post-NJO galactic norms. That is the biggest mystery of all. Troy Denning is still one of my favorite authors. I don't assign all the blame to him, especially considering the fact that a multi-author series is not easy. --Adm. Nick -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi Antilles/Celchu 08
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 5/13 8:03pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	Average score: 30.9/4 = 7.73 -----signature----- "If Havac was a pinata, when you beat him all that would come out is win." - Uli Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Sexually Ambiguous Tusken Raider™ and a Special Golden Ewok™ "Reality doesn't care if you believe it." - Boba Fett
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
PointGiven Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 5/14 12:00am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	Just finished it. I think it worked well as an in between novel but certainly not the end of the series. However it wasn't as bad as the spoilers made it out to be The Good "Blondie" Jaina Solo- Finally a Jaina-centric novel! I really don't count Revelation as she was there to make the Mandos look good. But here she stands up and outwits the aforementioned Mandolorians. She Ben Skywalker- He was great, again. One of the good things that came out of the series was Ben and his emotional journey. His interactions with Tahiri were great and foreshadowed him taking a more proactive role. I didn't see anything about him being a Jedi Knight, but I may have missed it The Hapan twins- they were a riot, and their interactions with Ben and Zekk were hilarious. They really knew their business too with their confrontation with the Hapan general near the end Darth Caedus- Man he finally demonstrated some powers and acted like a legit Sith Lord. Inferno and Fury he was a raving maniac and he made a quite a few dumb mistakes in Revelation. But here he acted well, leaving the Moffs to their fate and ripping through the Mandos which leads me to my next point. The Shatterpoint was a great power to give him and I literally laughed when he shattered Roeghr's beskar armor Denning's portrayal of the Mandolarians- They aren't written as the saviors and conscience of the universe but as flawed beings. They arrogantly walk right into Caedus's trap and get the crap kicked out of them, a welcome relief after they almost took him down in Revelation (and which I have blocked out in my mind and have decanonized) The Bad "Angel Eyes" The Ending- Too rushed. I was completely taken off guard by the "death" and return of Allana/Amelia. It took place in like 20 pages and threw me off guard. Completely unstatisfying. The end of the war came also as a surprise with a truncated speech by Daala. Even the final lines seemed unworthy of a finale. Compare it with The Unifying Force The Confederation (or lack thereof) I was under the impression a Civil War was going on. Instead we get the Remnant attacking a neutral species and Caedus and the Remnant going after the Jedi. The only mention is of Corellian fleets being tied up by Bwua'tu. I also rather Turr Phennir be CoS but whatev Daala- Seriously? I guess everyone has a short memory of the terror she caused, particuarly Han and his "give her a chance" Forgot about that torture huh? My only guess is that this will drive Jaina into Jag and the Remnant's arms Niathal- So did she die? Caedus reflects the Bwua'tu destroyed her fleet but did she go down too Slamming Jag Fel- sure he got some positive moments but there were some unneccesarry criticisms of him such as from Ben. We know Denning is a Zekk fan but come on which leads me to my next point Zekk- First we barely give him some screentime other than some brief flirtations that will come to naught, then we make him disappear. I sense Denning will be pushing for a new book or series having Zekk link up with Krayt, but that's just my theory. The Ugly "Tuco" Tahiri seducing Ben- Ick. Maybe if he was 17 but he's 14. He's one year older than my brother! And she's 30! Though I did like The Graduate reference "Are you trying to seduce me?" Made me think Ben was Dustin Hoffman for a sec. The needles in Caedus's face- I could handle his hand being sliced off by Jaina in the first duel and being stabbed in the torso and having his Achilles Heel severed by Jaina but that sucked for him Overall I'd give it a 7.4 on its own merits but a 6 in tying a series up, but the 7.4 counts for this review. -----signature----- Proud Obama Campaign Worker. FIRED UP AND READY TO GO!!!
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 5/14 2:07am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/14 2:23am (2 edits total) Edited By: xx_Anakin_xx
	I knew when Troy Denning was scheduled to write the final book that the killer of the Solo boys had been unleashed and Jacen would die. Still, for some really dumb reason, I thought just maybe he wouldn't do it. But he did, of course. I realized it was over when Chapter three the introduction did not change; we were reading Jacen's Eulogy - a lot of stupid Jokes from when he was 14 and 15. This was in tremendously bad taste and no it did not serve to help me hate him even though it made me feel the author was giving it a good try to make me do so. Well before I get to the finer points, I can only hope that the 6 needles in Caedus' face somehow caused his body to undergo some medical miracle and they bring him back because the way he went out was an abomination to Star Wars. The good: ~Denning finally displayed Jacen with constant power that was equivalent of someone claiming to be a Sith Lord (more on this below). ~Denning took time to undo all of the travesty that the previous book had wrought: the Jedi were uplifted to their proper status in Star Wars as the most powerful force. The Mandos and GAG were put in their place and lo and behold even Mirta and Boba Fatt - er Fett were banned from Mandalore - funny stuff. ~Luke IS ANAKIN SKYWALKER'S SON! Oh my goodness, if nothing else, this was the one brilliant thing the book did, it recovered Luke Skywalker. He is supposed to have all of the Midos of his father, but had seemed entirely too helpless till now. Suddenly he has come into...well...everything...all at once. But hey, better late than never and better a little unrealistic to make up for the sham of his past existence. Lord of shatterpoint lore, meditative disguise, Force projection, Force vision projection and excelled visions. This indeed does seem more like what Anakin Skywalker would have been without the injuries, so kudos for that. ~Han and Leia were actually participating having finally come out of their dazed stupor from the last book. ~Despite Caedus'last split second...um...well dunno what it was...some kind of return to Jacen who loved his daughter more than anything in the world, including his own survival or Sithhood...he didn't become a Force Ghost, so he's hanging with Anakin Solo somewhere and I imagine them having a pretty good time. Yeah if that doesn't make sense, it made as much sense as Jacen's ending so whatever. ~Denning didn't wipe out Jacen's entire line...we have Amelia THE BAD ~Ben is a Jedi? Did I miss something in the last book? It's altogether possible, but I didn't think I was that ditzy. ~So terribly sad, but although Jacen had the powers that could raise him to Sith status - JACEN WAS NOT A SITH LORD. Sorry. There is no way a Sith would ever say: "Starting today, Darth Caedus was going to rule not through anger or fear or even bribery, but as every true Sith Lord should, thorugh patience and LOVE and pain." NOR "Caedus needed to hold on to that love whatever it cost him, to cling to that love even as it tore his heart apart." (page 42) OKAYYYYYYYYYYYYY . Palpatine, Bane...well geez the whole lot, all rolling in their graves in disgust that the Jedi are referring to this guy as a Sith. LOVE AND NO ANGER????? Luke took a hit on that one, he should have realized. The one good thing is that Lucas' vision was not disturbed; Anakin Skywalker truly did destroy the Sith and even the EU has been unable to ressurect one. ~I cannot even describe how terrible the final battle between Jaina and Jacen was. I cannot believe 7 books were built up leading to THAT. I was disgusted, completely and utterly disgusted. And if the action hadn't already been the worst yet, Caedus going out SCREAMING to Tenal Ka to take Allana way from danger was the icing on the cake. And only then does Jaina freeze and realize - but whoops, her blade was already at his heart, LOL. Horribly written, just like Anakin Solo's death. Really I cannot understand why they let Denning write death scenes, he has no talent in that department at all. Zilch. Especially since the last time Allana was in danger, Caedus did ALL in his power to get to her - escaping Luke! But for some reason, he ran out of force lightning or good common sense and couldn't do crap. How can the powerful Jacen just become a comoplete dumbcluck in the Force all of the sudden? Did the author feel I wouldn't notice? I will likely write more on this later, it is the part that is most upsetting and I am still too wound up to write about it prolifically. ~Somewhere around pages 36-38, the Jedi lose all sense of what being a Jedi means. Jaina asks if they mean for her to capture her brother. A resounding no - kill him! (Mace Windu anyone?) And worse, they admit that when debriefing Allana they discovered he fees betrayed and misunderstood - (Clue anyone?). Luke agrees there is no good in him (Oh how quickly we forget*) - and why give us the Allana cry at the end and all the love talk from Caedus? The Jedi just seemed bonkers, out of touch and totally wrong. They honestly sounded like a group of Dark Jedi talking about it. And for a Mother and Father, Han and Leia were just pitiful in that scene - he is NOT Jacen our son, but some other dude. Right, cool, the same DUDE you changed the diapers for when he was a kid, remember? Cold-Hearted horrible group of people, every last one of them. At this point, I was 100% gunning for Caedus, but EU had vered and taken a sharp right, as they often do, so I should have suspected it was coming. Still, Denning did well bringing the Jedi back from what Traviss had done, I had some hope, but it was...dashed on those pages. Sadly, it served as the rationale for the entire book and on that level it failed big time. ~Daala is the new alliance chief of state. Right. I can't even talk about this right now it is so absolutely inane. ~The family sat laughing and joking with Jaina at the end ~ reminder: your only son just died. Some might say they had accepted that he was already dead - but you know what? That is a bunch of crap. ~What happened to Jacen's body? Who cares? Sad stuff. ~We are, as I feared, left with Jaina, Ben and Allana - perhaps Tahiri and Jag as future protagonists and no enemy. ~Zekk is floating in space. Jaina does not have to choose. Nice way to make that happen and she didn't seem all that broken up about it after an initial out burst - but she was terrily sad for Mirta ~Han Solo is the death kneel of the Skywalker legacy - his blood obviously tainted the mix because his kids just can't hang on. The one left was always my least favorite and I really wish they'd killed Jaina instead of either of the others that is why: ~the worst: Jaina survived. Now we will have to live with her agony on top of her already repulsive personality. The ONLY means of saving this situation is to hand it over to Stover, whose Traitor single-handedly brought me back into the fold after Denning's last death scene fiasco in Star by Star. I don't know what he could do, but the man is a genius, so I can only think that he could pull them from the mire once again. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I am sure I will have more later, at the moment I am still trying to digest this latest EU catastrophe as I see it. I will also have to wait a day before rating because at the moment I am sure it would be tainted by my just-finished-the-book horrified outlook. As for the writing itself, Denning is talented and does keep one entertained. He has a nice flowing style and I chuckled a bit which is always nice. As usual, he has the correct SW outlook, so apart from the divergences I pointed out above, he keeps things pretty canon in as far as the power structure and the supremacy of the Force. He is a bit descriptive at times in a boring way (take a lesson from Stover on how to do that well - the man can go on describing for 10 pages and it remains interesting - Denning loses me mid paragraph). Denning does seem to lose track as he writes at times which is a bit disconcerting. I don't think he realizes when a subject is "complete" - he either goes overboard or comes up way shallow at times. Leaving Jacen laying in the disposal room ??? The battle was won by the Jedi - how'd that happen??? Tenel Ka had no reaction to Jacen's death??? Ben??? Luke??? did anyone give a crap about losing this dude other than Jaina??? Where is Ben at the end??? It made me think that Denning really felt that everything was wrapped up nice and tight, but there were so many lose ends I was gravely dissatisfied at book's end. Star Wars is a Legacy of Hope and should leave one with an uplifting feeling at a series end. But here, I was just depressed. -----signature----- "Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must" "You will try"
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
dgxxx Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/14 5:39am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	xx_Anakin_xx I think you are missing the score -----signature----- The Force is strong in Peru too! Unofficial #EU Chatkiller.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Day-dreamy Registered: Nov '07	Date Posted: 5/14 6:02am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	OK, after I read a few spoilers I was a little afraid to even open the book - conclusion: If you can avoid it, don't read them. It wasn't at all that bad. I think Invincible is one of the best books in the series. The good: Jaina - all I have to say is: Finally! What they did to her in the previous novels was unforgivable and stupid. I know Caedus was supposed to be the main character of the series but that doesn't mean she chouldn't get more space for developing her character. Ben certainly did. In Invincible she finally goes on missions by herself, thinks for herself and isn't acompanied by Jag or Zekk (mostly). She also continues the family tradition by cutting off Caedus' arm. It's Jaina-centric novel, but that's not really surprising. I just hope that in the future novels they don't make her think about what she did every third sentence. Ben - he's certainly living up to the Skywalker name. Denning can somehow write him as a mature young man but at the same time adds little bits typical for 14 year old boy he is. I'd like to read more about him. Caedus - in the previous 8 novels he really didn't seem like "one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time" as is said on the cover. In Invincible he finally does. He displays great Force powers and also confidence in his actions. But he also continues to act crazy and quite delusional. I didn't like him even as Jacen so I have no problem with his death. Tenel Ka's cousins - this book certainly needed a funny element. They interaction with Ben and Zekk was great. Connection between Revelation and Invincible - at the beginning of the book, Jaina was still with Mandalorians and helping them. This might seem like a silly thing but with Revelation it looked like Traviss skipped a book. To all beings in the galaxy was somehow revealed that Jacen was a Sith and all we learned was that the Mandalorians were invincible. C3P-O and R2 - I always like to read about them. They are just on few pages but their presence still makes it more Star Wars like The Jedi - fighting (especially on the Anakin Solo), training (Luke teaches Jaina - yay), consulting (Saba - ) - per above The bad: No ending - or at least a short ending. We don't know what happened to Caedus' body, what did the Jedi do with Tahiri; how Luke, Ben, Tenel Ka and Allana reacted to his death; nothing about Tenel Ka's sudden decision to leave Allana with Leia and Han. Epilouge would be nice. Zekk missing - there is nothing good coming out of this (except Jaina and Jag getting together again) Daala as a new Chief of State - we all know it's riddiculous. After Caedus' death I was hoping to read more about Ben and Jaina. But apparently, the next novel is going to be about Han, Leia and Allana. That's really disappointing - so the're just going to replace Jacen with Allana? Still, I enjoyed the whole book. It kept me thrilled to the end so I think it deserves 9 out of 10. -----signature----- "Told you we should have been flying the Falcon -" "In the Falcon, we never would have persuaded them that you weren't aboard." Han and Leia, Fury
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 5/14 9:10am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	Average score: 47.3/6 = 7.88 -----signature----- "If Havac was a pinata, when you beat him all that would come out is win." - Uli Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Sexually Ambiguous Tusken Raider™ and a Special Golden Ewok™ "Reality doesn't care if you believe it." - Boba Fett
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
GrandMasterKatarn Registered: Feb '08	Date Posted: 5/14 9:59am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 5/14 11:18am (4 edits total) Edited By: GrandMasterKatarn
	THE GOOD Luke takes a backseat in this book (Finally! It's about freakin' time). Fett+the Mandalorians team up with the Jedi at Nickel One. Jaina vs Jacen (Anakin Solo). The Jedi war council. Fett and Mirta not being allowed on Mandalore because of the Fett assassin nanokillers. Jaina refusing to let go of Jacen's body when Jag tries to rescue her. THE PRICELESS! Daala as CoS. Jag ruling the Moffs. Daala insisting that half the new batch off Moffs are female. Taryn Zel coming onto Zekk and his reaction. Ben redeeming Tahiri. The flashbacks. Jaina telling herself that Jacen's not dead, that he'll live forever in her heart. "Saba, Kyp, and Kyle were standing around the table behind the Moffs, lightsabers in hand but not ignited. The rest of the Masters were busy taking Caedus's command staff into custody." (pg 289, Invincible) I loved that scene. THE BAD Zekk's disappearance. Jacen killing Isolder. Tahiri killing Shevu. THE STUPID Han and Leia raising Allana. Luke knowing how to use shatterpoint. Han and Leia in denial. The Ugly Tahiri using seduction to get information out of Ben. Overall score 8.5 out of 10 (just because Kyle's in the book ) -----signature----- Revan+Bane+Exile = Kyle Katarn "Expletive: Damn it, master, I am an assassination droid... not a dictionary!" - HK-47 "My first apprentice was a female Twi'lek named Jaden Korr" - Kyle Katarn
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
jedimaster203 Registered: Dec '99	Date Posted: 5/14 5:58pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	I really don't have a problem with Luke knowing how to use the Shatterpoint. He's a prodigy of the force, and he's not a natural with it as Mace was. That being said, I loved this book. I read it in one day. Denning managed to make both Luke and Caedus competent, which I'm highly appreciative of. I actually miss Jacen Solo. He was one of my favorite characters until LotF. I've been following his character arc since YJK. I was pleased to see a sliver of redemption for him at the end. RIP, Jacen, you poor misguided soul. Anyways, just a small nag...At the beginning of the book, there is a typo on Jaina's name :P It said "Jana", for that, I'm deducting .01 points. 9.99/10 -----signature----- A vote for Obama is a vote for defeat. Support Victory MCCAIN 2008 -The lions in their dens tremble at his approach-
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
DarthPandemonium Registered: Sep '07	Date Posted: 5/14 6:05pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: INVINCIBLE (Spoilers)
	Well just finished the book and decided to do a review. Let me just say i've been on the line with LOTF loved some books hated others. Also I had high expectations for this book which may be why I have more bad things to say about it then good. The Good: Darth Caedus Dark Lord of the Sith - Caedus finally came into his own in this book. Taking out Mandos like nothing, making the Moffs fear and respect him and of coarse breaking Prince Isolder's neck. He also whipped out some sweet force powers including lightning and shatterpoints. Megador and Dominion - I'm not a big fleet junkie but I have to admit I love me some Super Star Destroyers. Jaina Sword of the Jedi - It was nice to see Jaina embrace her destiny and realize she was the one to beat Caedus. She also showed some impressive abilities that allowed her to keep up with Caedus in both fights. Tahiri Alive - Well this one is pretty self-explainatory... i'm glad Tahiri's still alive I figured she'd die. The Bad: Redemption in Star Wars: This is where it gets ugly. Jaina and Jacen have had limited interaction through the entire series and not once not ONE time does Jaina even try to turn Jacen from the darkside this entire book. Now I understand why Luke would not want to forgive Jacen but comeon he forgave friggin Darth Vader and unless you count the half a try in Revelation he never tried to redeem him once either not even before he knew Caedus killed Mara. Now this became a problem for me through the series. This is because Luke has known Jacen since he was a born... he was his master and his uncle. He watched him grow up and doesn't even try but OH he goes as far as put his life on the line for Vader a man he never knew as Anakin Skywalker just as a Dark Lord of the Sith. It's pretty sad that Luke can forgive 2 murders of millions maybe billions(Kyp,Vader) but can't forgive his nephew because he happened to kill one person with the last name Skywalker. Which brings me to my next point. Bad Characterizations - This point has plagued LOTF the whole series. The Jedi in this book should not be able to call themselves such. Now don't get me wrong Caedus should have been taking out but capture should have been Plan A instead they send his sister to assassinate him. If that's not bad enough first she tries killing him with a sniper rifle while he's fighting Mandos and has no idea she's there. Then she sneaks up on him and gives him a lightsaber in the gut for his trouble. This is not the way of the Jedi both instances Jaina attacked without being provoked at all... and to beat all it's her twin brother and she doesn't show one ounce of remorse untill she cuts his arm off or kills him. Then after she kills him Han and Leia walk in and show no emotion what so ever. This was their son for crying out loud. I could go on and on with this point but i'll end it here. Heres the keys to the Empire Jag - Well Luke spares the Moffs and then pretty much makes Jag Emperor for no real reason at all other then for future plot reasons. Heroes and Villans??? - In this book I found myself actually rooting for Caedus not only to live but to win. The reason for this is the NJO being overly hypocritical. Luke and his order want Caedus dead no exceptions I mean Luke, Jaina, Kyp, and Kam never had any brushes with the darkside so whats Jacens deal?? During the Jaina-Caedus fight the dialouge made it seem as if Jaina was the one who turned. I'm not sure why Troy did this but I felt way more for Jacen during the book than any one else. I know Caedus did bad things but at least he understood he was doing it for a reason, felt bad for things he had to do or had done and had come to terms with his ends justify the means mentality. The NJO had him murdered then forgave everyone else in the galaxy all the while sitting on their high horse. Oh yeah Daala's a good guy now too. Plot holes - Tassels anyone??? The end of the Solo line? - Anakin and Jacen are gone Jainas going to be a Fel soon so unless Han and Leia pop a couple more puppies out good-bye Solos. Jaina 2-0 - I didn't like the fact that Jaina got the best of Caedus in not one but two duels. First taking his arm and then his life and all she got for it was a couple shocks, bruises, and a broken arm... and she did this by out doing him with the force and her saber. The point of Mando'mania in Revelation was what exactly..... Well I could prob go on forever but I better end I give Invincible a 5.5 -----signature----- "You've failed, your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." -Luke "So be it...Jedi." -Emperor "Are u even listening to yourself, Jacen? Do u even know who you are anymore?" -Kyle Katarn "I do. It's you who have no idea who I am." -Darth Caedus
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 » - ~~Previous~~ | Next | Reload

Jedi Council Forums » Star Wars Books & Comics » Literature »