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Topic:
To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Master_Keralys
Title: Manager:
-Lit
-EUC
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/13 1:31pm
Subject:
To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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This wasn't a one-time thing, folks! Here we continue to examine the fall to the dark side of various characters.
We spent a week or so discussing Jacen Solo's "fall," and I suspect we can continue doing so in greater depth and detail in the weeks ahead as Invincible is released today and the spoiler period will end in a month, at which point discussion will be much more open.
Right now, though, it's time to bust out our very dear friend, Ulic Qel-Droma.
What was the context in which he fell?
What were the major contributing factors to his fall?
In what sense can we say that he fell, was corrupted, or didn't really fall at all?
I don't have the original sources available... but you do. So get cracking!
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God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself.
The craziest story ever told.
The truest.
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 1:34pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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He was intended to be similar to Anakin, and I think he fits pretty well. Ulic was the type of guy who liked to be the hero, who wouldn't tolerate people that didn't agree with him, and who had a tendency to take all the guilt for things that he couldn't control.
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The Clone Wars is OT quality good. Really. Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds. As Father and Son (An AU RP) - Looking for a few good replacements...see profile for info. http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
5/13 1:55pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Ah, Ulic Qel-Droma....A fool, but a likeable one.
All the pieces were laid out and we knew from the notes of Dark Empire that Ulic's attempt to conquer the dark side from within would fail - it's what marked out Luke and Anakin, that they succeeded. So the stage is set for a fall.
TOTJ:KOTOR did an excellent job of establishing the characters of Ulic, Cay and Tott, not to mention Nomi Sunrider, as well as Ulic's Master, Arca Jeth. The sequel, TOTJ:TFNU, brought the cast together to battle King Ommin, who falls, yet elsewhere Freedon Nadd empowers the Krath. So we come to TOTJ:DLOTS, an excellent story that has the distinction of introducing the EU to Korriban in a splendidly creepy fashion.
It's notable that Ulic becomes wounded and the wound refuses to heal, due to it being from the dark side. It could be said he is not in full health and nor thinking clearly. In the aftermath of the Krath attack upon Deneba that slays Arca, Ulic vows to infiltrate and conquer the dark side. A promise made in a time of emotional distress is hardly a wise move, yet in the following days Ulic will not be persuaded and heads for Cinnagar. He ends up getting into the Krath but is captured and pumped of Sith poison to force him to succumb to the dark side. In a duel with Satal Keto, Ulic kills him and realises his mission can only end in his death. It is here he decides to commit to it, despite what it entails, despite the poison and grief that drives him.
It is at the finale of DLOTS that Ulic truly falls, as in battle with Exar Kun, he beholds a vision of the Sith and that Dark Lord emblazes their mission into both his and Kun's mind. It's interesting as to how much of their decision to take over the galaxy is theirs and how much is due to a subtle dark side coercion, for it is a very quick conversion. Only moments before they were both set on killing each other, both had arrived at this point by killing people, who they told themselves deserved it, although Kun's acts were the darker.
Cue TSW, where Qel-Droma is attacking the Republic in lightning strikes, Ulic's mission to conquer the dark side is gone. Even at his trial following his capture at the Battle of Corusant, he is unrepentant and says nothing of conquering the dark side - Ulic is truly wedded to the notion of restoring the rule of the Sith. It is only later, on Ossus as a devastating supernovae conflagration approaches, that Ulic is snapped out of his dark side fixation but it takes the death of Cay Qel-Droma to do it! Following this horror Nomi strips Ulic of the Force permanently. Ulic leads the Jedi to Yavin where they defeat Kun but he manages to survive, to be defeated millennia later by Luke's students.
And that was where the story ended until Redemption, which details how Ulic ends up training Nomi's daughter, how he faces his past and recognises his sins and in end, dies yet is granted redemption by the Force. I'd like to think he was granted it due to training Vima, that she in turn will go on to undo much of the legacy of pain he left the galaxy in his time as Dark Lord.
So what of his fall? Given the Sith poison and Sith intervention, I'd say Ulic Qel-Droma did not voluntarily fall to the dark side so much as be pushed over the edge, yet once he fell he pursued it with absolute devotion that saw him kill his brother. He renounced numerous attempts to bring him back from the brink before his fall due to being so convinced of his mission - was the dark side even then subtly amplifying Ulic's sense of ego? More than possible, but none of this can amount to more than a set of factors for limited mitigation, they get nowhere near cause for absolution.
What this did very well was give Ulic a very plausible rationale for his actions, it all had a logical sense - which is another thing to be wary of, the dark side doesn't rely solely upon emotions. At the same time it didn't hold back in showing the consequences of a Jedi's fall. Ulic also was the kind of character who saw what happened to others as being unable to also happen to him! When shown a holocron tale of a student who also tried to conquer the dark side but instead slew the Sith master he apprenticed himself to, Ulic dismissed it. It also sets up the idea that, whatever an individual may think, once you are in the dark side, you become as the dark side wishes you to. For Ulic in TSW is utterly different to how he was in DLOTS.
JB
-----signature-----
Howe: Why?
Castle: So they can't walk away. So they can't
profit from the pain they've caused.....
Howe: And no second chances...
Castle: I don't do redemption.
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MistrX
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:07pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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I've always liked the falls that begin with good intentions, the road to hell that the heroes never realize that they're on. Ulic's fall is a classic example of that.
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"The only thing more insane than falsehood is truth."
We are well and truly forked.
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Solus
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:09pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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I heard somewhere that Legacy of the Force was intended to be about Ulic and Exar Kun. I hope that they decide to make a series about them.
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Bob Barr 2008
If you love freedom then research Bob Barr
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Fettster
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:12pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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I'll have to reread Tales of the Jedi tonight, but I do find it interesting that the original intention for Ulic was to die unredeemed and unrepentant--thank the Force KJA took it in the direction he did instead, because Redemption is one of my all-time favorite EU stories.
And this is probably one of the only times I'll admit to enjoying anything by KJA, so take note. 
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:19pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Fettster posted:
I'll have to reread Tales of the Jedi tonight, but I do find it interesting that the original intention for Ulic was to die unredeemed and unrepentant--thank the Force KJA took it in the direction he did instead, because Redemption is one of my all-time favorite EU stories.
I wouldn't say he was unrepentant at the end of TSW, he was utterly broken by his killing of Cay, it was why Nomi was able to force-strip him. TSW left Ulic's final fate open.
-----signature-----
Howe: Why?
Castle: So they can't walk away. So they can't
profit from the pain they've caused.....
Howe: And no second chances...
Castle: I don't do redemption.
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:25pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
- Date Edited:
5/13 2:27pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
SuperWatto
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I agree with the Fettster word for word.
Ulic Qel-Droma... Most tragic death of all fallen Jedi?
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Trandoshan flatcakes!
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:33pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
- Date Edited:
5/13 2:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Charlemagne19
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While the whole idea that the Sith poison was affecting his mind seems clear, I also like the idea that Ulic is also acting pretty much of his own free will in other areas. Call me crazy but I really enjoyed Aleema Keto's role as the seductress in Ulic Qel Dromel's fall. It's not a terribly original idea that a woman can lead a man to temptation (its one of the oldest of the book), but the whole back and forth where Ulic thinks he's seducing HER rather than the reverse was a fairly adult/clever bit of subterfuge in a series that's usually about bright and pretty explosions.
Going from the perspective that Ulic is acting of his own free will with the possible exception of being high on "Sith Drugs" for the murder of Satal Keto, the simple fact is that its relatively easy to see that he was driven by the anger and resentment that we thought would form the crux of Anakin Skywalker's fall to the Jedi. Honestly, the idea that the Dark Side was warping his brain in some respects does seem to be the only way you can justify some of his decisions unless you want to expand the role of Aleema leading him down the path of the conqueror far more than was on screen. After all, Ulic's entire quest was driven by his need to revenge Master Arca (though he might have considered that done when he killed Satal Keto).
Still, for a prideful Jedi Knight like Ulic, it must have stung royally to have essentially the Jedi Knights come to Teta and more or less state that they think he's failed and betrayed his oaths. Worse, it was done with Nomi Sunrider as the first one to "betray" him in such a fashion and his brother too. The fact that his romantic love interest more or less found him in bed with a psychotic Lucretia Borgia-like figure (victim of propaganda as she was in RL, not so much in Star Wars). It had to be a moment of genuine shame turned to angry defense.
Really, by the time that Marka Ragnos' spirit shows up, Ulic has already crossed numerous lines in the pursuit of his mission (not the least being the murder of an innocent miner). I think one interesting thing to note is that after Satal Keto is dead there's absolutely nothing preventing Ulic from killing Aleema.
Really, it seems after murdering Satal that Ulic just went back and hoped into Aleema's bed. Murder is not the way of the Jedi but for his mission to be the destruction of the Dark Siders, he's really got no opposition whatsoever if he just wanted to slay her. Thus, by the time the Jedi show up, there's no real intent left by Ulic to destroy his lover and her organization. He's 2nd in command and really Marka only recognizes Ulic has already become a Dark Jedi.
Interestingly, I note that Ulic is a Dark Lord of the Sith but Aleema is passed over. I think this is probably because Ulic is a figure that operates because of his own strength and Aleema is pulling the Woman Behind the Man option. The Sith respect nothing if not power and its easy to see that once Ulic loses his twisted affection towards Aleema (I wouldn't call it love by any stretch of the imagination), she's history.
Ulic certainly wasn't shedding any tears when he sent her to her death (of course she'd already betrayed him by then). It's interesting to speculate whether or not the Dark Side allowed him any momentary regret for such a murder and it contributed to his realization he'd lost everything soon afterwards or whether he'd become so hardened by the Dark Side that it was like smashing an insect.
Of course, re-reading Exar/Ulic's relationship, you could definitely do some fanfic there too. At least on Exar's side. So yes, maybe it was KJA's influence, but there's a substantial sexual element to Ulic's fall that you usually don't find in Star Wars.
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Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:34pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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IMHO
Ulic is the best portrayed "fall" in the entire saga.
You tie that in with Exar Kun's "corruption"...all other's must attempt to match!
The most remarkable thing about Ulic's fall is that you never really stop supporting him...other fallen heroes are alienated, both from their in universe friends and out of universe fans...others are just pitied for the tragedy (Anakin).
Ulic is not "pitied"...but he's not reviled...he simply is a character that you knew would unfold before you...and you anticipated it...to dread or joy.
Toss in the redemptive story for Ulic...which was complete...but not a "welcome back to the gang" type of fraud.
They wish Anakin Skywalker was half the character Ulic was and is.
_______
Oh...and I hated TOTJ for the first 5 years of it's existence, and still not overly impressed with the series as a whole...but this part...Ulic and Kun...they nailed.
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GO SEE "THE DARK KNIGHT"
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Manisphere
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:37pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Jedi Ben kind of sums up everything in such a succinct manor that all I can say is that the Sith poison is a Light Side "handicap" given to Ulic so early that I don't think we can compare him to anyone else who fell including Exar Kun who was also duped into joining the Dark Side or at least doing it the way Freedon Nad wanted him to.
How would a Jedi of any era fare under Sith poison from a recipe probably long forgotten? Unless you were a master at self healing, which is impossible using the Dark Side, I think the best Jedi would be corrupted.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:38pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Manisphere posted:
Jedi Ben kind of sums up everything in such a succinct manor that all I can say is that the Sith poison is a Light Side "handicap" given to Ulic so early that I don't think we can compare him to anyone else who fell including Exar Kun who was also duped into joining the Dark Side or at least doing it the way Freedon Nad wanted him to.
How would a Jedi of any era fare under Sith poison from a recipe probably long forgotten? Unless you were a master at self healing, which is impossible using the Dark Side, I think the best Jedi would be corrupted.
I think Sith poison just enhances emotion, it doesn't corrupt by itself.
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Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:39pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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I fully agree with Marine posted:
Oh...and I hated TOTJ for the first 5 years of it's existence, and still not overly impressed with the series as a whole...but this part...Ulic and Kun...they nailed.
but must counter Marine posted:
you never really stop supporting him
with Charlemagne19 posted:
Really, it seems after murdering Satal that Ulic just went back and hoped into Aleema's bed. Murder is not the way of the Jedi but for his mission to be the destruction of the Dark Siders, he's really got no opposition whatsoever if he just wanted to slay her. Thus, by the time the Jedi show up, there's no real intent left by Ulic to destroy his lover and her organization. He's 2nd in command and really Marka only recognizes Ulic has already become a Dark Jedi.
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Trandoshan flatcakes!
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Fettster
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:47pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Jedi Ben posted:
Fettster posted:
I'll have to reread Tales of the Jedi tonight, but I do find it interesting that the original intention for Ulic was to die unredeemed and unrepentant--thank the Force KJA took it in the direction he did instead, because Redemption is one of my all-time favorite EU stories.
I wouldn't say he was unrepentant at the end of TSW, he was utterly broken by his killing of Cay, it was why Nomi was able to force-strip him. TSW left Ulic's final fate open.
Not that, I mean when originally planned--the Dark Empire endnotes aren't clear on Ulic's fate, but what I said was the original plan, before KJA and Kun got involved. Veitch said in an interview that he had outlined a different plan for Ulic's eventual fate, and that he liked it better than what we ended up getting, but then he and KJA started working together to link JAT with TotJ.
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:56pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Ah, that plan, ah yes, quite agree - there Ulic becomes an utterly despised figure for all time.
-----signature-----
Howe: Why?
Castle: So they can't walk away. So they can't
profit from the pain they've caused.....
Howe: And no second chances...
Castle: I don't do redemption.
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Manisphere
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/13 2:58pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Charlemagne19 posted:
Manisphere posted:
Jedi Ben kind of sums up everything in such a succinct manor that all I can say is that the Sith poison is a Light Side "handicap" given to Ulic so early that I don't think we can compare him to anyone else who fell including Exar Kun who was also duped into joining the Dark Side or at least doing it the way Freedon Nad wanted him to.
How would a Jedi of any era fare under Sith poison from a recipe probably long forgotten? Unless you were a master at self healing, which is impossible using the Dark Side, I think the best Jedi would be corrupted.
I think Sith poison just enhances emotion, it doesn't corrupt by itself.
It enhances any emotion or just negative ones? If it enhances all emotions it isn't innately an evil poison or even Sith-like. Sith poison sounds more like LSD. There are good trips and bad ones and if you hang out only with dark siders you're gonna have a bad trip. Something like that?
If Ulic was on a precipice, I'm assuming the poison simply made his decision making easier and faster. Easier and faster because he has no emotional reason to want to go dark. He basically had no hate to feed his hate so the poison manufactured anger. This is what I'm guessing Veitch and Anderson meant and wanted. (I don't know why I'm so hung up on the Sith poison thing? )
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