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Topic:
To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Havac
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 10:18pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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I don't know, I think you can be seduced by the undercover lifestyle without being a despicable person. Like Corran with the Invids, it's just easy to fall into the lifestyle, easy to get a little too far into the character you play, a little too easy to justify things. I like that angle, honestly; it just felt that the execution really let it down.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 10:32pm
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
- Date Edited:
5/13 10:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Charlemagne19
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Havac posted:
I don't know, I think you can be seduced by the undercover lifestyle without being a despicable person. Like Corran with the Invids, it's just easy to fall into the lifestyle, easy to get a little too far into the character you play, a little too easy to justify things. I like that angle, honestly; it just felt that the execution really let it down.
Too much of the story felt like the story was attempting to excuse Ulic's evils.
It was trying to say he wasn't in his right mind so he wasn't REALLY corrupted. Which rings false. Did the fact he killed his brother REALLY shake him out of the poison (or did it just run its course at THAT moment?) or was the poison long since gone by that point and it was just Ulic's own greed/ambition/pride driving the juggernaut of the war at this point? For me, I go with B. Ulic Qel Dromel voluntarily through himself over the side of slippery slope to indulge a decadent lifestyle of authority and power.
He became Scarface while infiltrating Scarface's organization.
Edit:
Actually, with a request towards Master Keralys, I'd love to make this a Ulic Qel Dromel and Exar Kun thread because the stories are meant to parallel one another (Revan and Malak should also have their stories linked).
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/14 5:41am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Considering darksiders' tendency to seek justification, I wonder if we're meant to think that Ulic used the poison as a crutch...
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Excellence
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/14 6:01am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Havac pretty much summed up my feelings on the matter. Qel-Droma's fall looked absolutely ridiculous. Desire for sex led to republic conquest? It was the transition that was flawed.
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/14 6:16am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Excellence posted:
Desire for sex led to republic conquest?
Did you see the prequels? 
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 6:57am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
- Date Edited:
5/14 7:03am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Charlemagne19
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Excellence posted:
Havac pretty much summed up my feelings on the matter. Qel-Droma's fall looked absolutely ridiculous. Desire for sex led to republic conquest? It was the transition that was flawed.
To be perfectly sleazy about it, Aleema senses that she's gone about as far as she can go with her sick co-dependent relationship with her brother and instead prostitutes herself to the man that she figures can give her more. In Ulic's case, he wants Aleema and gets Aleema but the price is that he murders her brother Satal (a person he wants to kill anyway). Afterwards, being thoroughly tainted by the fact that he's effectively become King of Keto and seemingly 'conquered' Alema.....he discovers that he no longer feels any particular reason to overthrow the Krath.
That Ulic has the weakness of a sexy woman filling his head with dreams of grandeur isn't exactly unprecedented in world history. It was, frankly, the only way many women could wield influence in many parts of the world.
Except, now Ulic Qel Dromel know that the Jedi won't leave "his" kingdom alone. Furthermore, Marka has filled his head with the prospect of greater glories untold and the power of the Sith beyond even Aleema's own dreams.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:06am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
- Date Edited:
5/14 7:07am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ulicus
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[ Pedant ]Satal is Aleema's cousin[ / pedant ]
Unless I'm wrong about that as well. My brain's a little foggy today.
I'd bring up the "Dromel" thing, too, but I've grown to accept that as part of your charm. 
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:11am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Ulicus posted:
[ Pedant ]Satal is Aleema's cousin[ / pedant ]
Unless I'm wrong about that as well. My brain's a little foggy today.
I'd bring up the "Dromel" thing, too, but I've grown to accept that as part of your charm.
In my case, it's the fact that I haven't read the comics in ten years and I'm operating from how they sounded in my memory.
Charles only bothers to research when he's lightsaber of truthing.
*checks Wookieepedia*
And it seems she is in fact his cousin. Which makes some of the subtext just slightly less squicky.
Slightly.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:51am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Charlemagne19 posted:
And it seems she is in fact his cousin. Which makes some of the subtext just slightly less squicky.
Slightly.
Maybe they were cousins AND siblings. 
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:52am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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So what you're saying the whole incestuous subtext thing was actually a Keto family tradition?
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:53am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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I find it interesting that Ulic only realizes what he's doing when he kills his brother Cay.
Only post then does he shake out of his dark side play acting.
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/14 7:57am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
- Date Edited:
5/14 7:58am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
BobaMatt
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Same goes for Mr. Skywalker, though.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
And that's part of the reason I don't think Ulic's realization that he's a piece of crap is enough to say he's gone back to the light.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/14 8:01am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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BobaMatt posted:
Same goes for Mr. Skywalker, though.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
And that's part of the reason I don't think Ulic's realization that he's a piece of crap is enough to say he's gone back to the light.
Fair point. Though Vader stays dark, in part, because Sidious is all he has left. Ulic isn't in anywhere near as bad a situation.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/14 8:08am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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BobaMatt posted:
Same goes for Mr. Skywalker, though.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
And that's part of the reason I don't think Ulic's realization that he's a piece of crap is enough to say he's gone back to the light.
Ulic's redemption is his turning on Exar Kun, renouncing his Empire, and spending the rest of his life in atonement.
Not in killing his brother.
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Master_Keralys
Title: Lit Mod of Ferociously Furious Fury
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/14 8:11am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Good discussion! I'm going out looking for a job; I'll be back later to chime in.
Charles, no, this is staying the Ulic thread; the Exar one is probably up next, though, for precisely the reason you brought up.  I want to deal with characters independently; you're more than welcome to reference Kun, of course, but I think he deserves his own thread, because his fall is particularly interesting.
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