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Topic:
To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 6:53am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Master_Keralys posted:
So... his fall to the dark side, anyone? Or are we all about discussed (disgust?) out on that one?
- Keralys
What is there to add?
We covered why.
We covered how.
When is pretty straight forward.
Where is pretty straight forward.
What? Well what, what?
To what extent we also discussed.
are you trying to lead us toward something? 
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:05am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Master_Keralys posted:
So... his fall to the dark side, anyone? Or are we all about discussed (disgust?) out on that one?
I don't have my books/trades with me, so I can't do any of the "in depth" (to the extent I go in depth) stuff I might've otherwise.
Jedimarine posted:
I don't think another "I am your father" moment is what this galaxy needs.
How about "You're like the Son I never had!" 
No, not good enough. 
Revan being the love child of Nomi Sunrider and Ulic Qel-Droma, conceived on Rhen Var, is the only thing that will make me happy.
He's the "Main Character" of the KotOR era... Nomi and Ulic were the main characters of the TotJ era.
We know Revan picks up the Qel-Droma robe, we know Revan reminds Jolee of Nomi....
It makes so much sense!
And, with that, I'll end my off-topic rant. Sorry Ker. 
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:06am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Master_Keralys posted:
So... his fall to the dark side, anyone? Or are we all about discussed (disgust?) out on that one?
- Keralys
There is strangely little controversy about the fact Ulic abandoned the Jedi for drugs, sex, and power.
I do have to ask though....
Why does Ulic become such a complete NUT by The Sith War?
The Dark Side?
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:13am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Oh now my head hurts...cause now I'm thinking about an encounter between Vima Sunrider and Revan.
Oh SNAP!
Vima, Revan, Exile, Ulic in a single sequence! 
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:16am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Charlemagne19 posted:
I do have to ask though....
Why does Ulic become such a complete NUT by The Sith War?
The Dark Side?
Charlemagne19 posted:
drugs, sex, and power.
____________
Honestly...yeah the darkside...but probably a conjunction of extremes that come with the darkside...when nothing is moderated, there is only so much strain on the brain you can maintain.
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:17am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Charles posted:
Sorry my tone was rude.
Accepted 
Charles posted:
And that was an internal monologue
"How would he know she planned the whole thing?"?
Marine posted:
these boys are at or near 15 years old, and they are still quite relevant.
I think that bodes well for at least what we DO have of them...whether you are satisfied with how much or not.
True.
Charles posted:
That's hardly a small amount of information
Perhaps it is for you. I prefer characters that have some sort of personality... Anything. For me, the (human) characters in TOTJ are all very similar. 'Ulic is from Corellia' tells me nothing. And you can write 'Ulic is struggling!' in the caption, but I want to see him struggle... I want to see 'this is what it's like to be Ulic Qel-Droma'.
Charles posted:
No, the art isn't up to the same photorealistic standards of today but it was leaps and miles above what was going on elsewhere t the time
No, Charles. I stalled buying it for ten years because I've always thought the art was particularly poor. Better looking comics have been created since Little Nemo, 1914.
Look, I'm not saying the stuff is bad. Just saying that I don't think it's the best, either - but that it could be expanded upon and still be made part of the best.
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Master_Keralys
Title: Lit Mod of Ferociously Furious Fury
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:20am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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No, carry on as you were. There was a question that popped into my head last night, but I can't remember for the life of me what it was.
Perhaps this will serve in the meantime: what was it about his fall and his insanity that made him nonetheless able to return? What distinctive trait allowed him that remorse, that ability to "snap out of it<' so to speak? Because others who have been driven mad by the dark side had no such ability, it would seem... 
- Keralys
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:24am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
- Date Edited:
5/15 7:26am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Charlemagne19
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Superwatto posted:
Perhaps it is for you. I prefer characters that have some sort of personality... Anything. For me, the (human) characters in TOTJ are all very similar. 'Ulic is from Corellia' tells me nothing. And you can write 'Ulic is struggling!' in the caption, but I want to see him struggle... I want to see 'this is what it's like to be Ulic Qel-Droma'.
What more personality do you want exactly? Ulic is dripping with personality. He's a tense, crazed, and frustrated warrior. He's got a romance with Nomi Sunrider born from mutual attraction and her sense of loss. The dudes got a weird attraction to the bad girl Aleema and a personal grudge that he wants to settle with Satal Keto and does.
He's basically Anakin Skywalker before we met Anakin Skywalker.
(In all actuality, it's possible Lucas might have drawn some elements from the series since Lucas actually DID read the comic books of Star Wars----bizarrely never reading the novels)
I think part of the problem is the fact these guys are Jedi. They're not jokesters. They're terminally serious at all times and only Nomi gets to show much in the way of feeling and emotion (not to be sexist but unfortunately she fills "The Chick" see TV tropes role for the series). It doesn't mean that they don't have emotion (all of the Jedi Masters are serious, wise, and stoic but also very distinct personalities).
I'm not saying the series couldn't have gone another six issues. However, we get to see "This is what its like to be Ulic Qel Droma" and that's Star Wars: Redemption. We also get to see Ulic Qel Droma totally blow his Jedi Trials.
I loved that Arca had to bail him out from the mission that should have made him a Jedi Knight.
Master_Keralys posted:
No, carry on as you were. There was a question that popped into my head last night, but I can't remember for the life of me what it was.
Perhaps this will serve in the meantime: what was it about his fall and his insanity that made him nonetheless able to return? What distinctive trait allowed him that remorse, that ability to "snap out of it<' so to speak? Because others who have been driven mad by the dark side had no such ability, it would seem...
I think Ulic was honestly never quite able to make that tie severing that Anakin Skywalker was able to make. Anakin killed Padme, he was tortured/deformed by Obi Wan, and his mother was already dead. Ulic Qel Droma is still tied to Nomi Sunrider and Cay Qel Droma. He just chooses to basically ignore them as something that's in his way. However, Ulic never really considers KILLING THEM because they're ties back to his past.
The faceless nobodies don't mean anything to him.
It's only that Cat GETS UP IN HIS FACE and tries to stop him that Ulic fights him.
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:25am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Being cut off from the force is the biggest part of it.
It's like going "cold turkey"...he had to have the strength to not only overcome rejecting the darkside, but complete force withdrawal.
Something tells me, without the force at you beckon call, the ability to deal with inner demons might be clearer to you. If nothing else, it keeps those "moments of weakness" from causing a relapse into the black.
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Master_Keralys
Title: Lit Mod of Ferociously Furious Fury
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:27am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Sure, I'll grant you that. But where did the inner strength come from? Undoubtedly being stripped helped him to have those moments pass, isntead of consuming him... but there is nonetheless a curious blend of strength and endurance there. WHy didn't he completely despair?
Also, note the parallel between Anakin's appearance to Jacen in Traitor and whasisface's appearance to Ulic...
- Keralys
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God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself.
The craziest story ever told.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:28am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
- Date Edited:
5/15 7:30am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Charlemagne19
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Jedimarine posted:
Being cut off from the force is the biggest part of it.
It's like going "cold turkey"...he had to have the strength to not only overcome rejecting the darkside, but complete force withdrawal.
Something tells me, without the force at you beckon call, the ability to deal with inner demons might be clearer to you. If nothing else, it keeps those "moments of weakness" from causing a relapse into the black.
I'm not sure.
I don't think when you renounce the Dark Side you tend to bounce back all that often. Ulic was already shattered emotionally and physically by Cay's death.
I think he would have had almost the same reaction had he killed Nomi.
I intend to bring up later in the next thread that Exar Kun never actually intends to kill Master Vodo until the last minute. Vodo just forces the issue.
Master_Keralys posted:
Sure, I'll grant you that. But where did the inner strength come from? Undoubtedly being stripped helped him to have those moments pass, isntead of consuming him... but there is nonetheless a curious blend of strength and endurance there. WHy didn't he completely despair?
Also, note the parallel between Anakin's appearance to Jacen in Traitor and whasisface's appearance to Ulic...
- Keralys
Ulic was always a strong Jedi Knight. Ulic was probably the best Jedi Knight in the Order. Again the Anakin parallels exist. Ulic was the guy who defeated King Ommin, he destroyed Satal Keto, and he slew Warb Null the Sith Knight. We're talking a man who slew three Dark Siders before he fully made the transition to all out Sith Lord.
The problem is Ulic really can't differentiate between great deeds and just deeds.
It's like people who can't tell the difference between a Great Hero and a Great Conqueror.
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:32am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Define "bounces back"?
I think redemption makes clear he doesn't "bounce back"...he is remorseful...he is broken and weary...he doesn't proceed to say "Kyp Durron" levels of normalcy ever again in his life.
redemption doesn't mean "all better".
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:32am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Charles posted:
He's a tense, crazed, and frustrated warrior.
Well, hats off to your deduction skills... Are you sure that's not hindsight? Were you aware of this when you first met him in the comics?
Charles posted:
I'm not saying the series couldn't have gone another six issues. However, we get to see "This is what its like to be Ulic Qel Droma" and that's Star Wars: Redemption.
I agree. I don't know what came over KJA, but he shoulda had it a coupla years earlier.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:38am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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SuperWatto posted:
Well, hats off to your deduction skills... Are you sure that's not hindsight? Were you aware of this when you first met him in the comics?
I was in high school when I bought those comics, Superwatto but yes I had the idea that Ulic Qel Droma was supposed to be Anakin Skywalker even then. The idea had been built in my head what Anakin Skywalker was supposed to be like by all the background information and certainly that was very well realized.
Great Warrior. Seduced by the Dark Side of the Force.
I mean, the comic has Ulic constantly bowing his head going "I'm sorry master arca" and more. I give credit also to the voice acting by David Scott Gordon though for forever marking my impressions of Ulic's character.
But yes, Tales of the Jedi was made in an era when everyone "Knew" what Star Wars' characters were all about. They functioned very strongly on archetypes of good and evil and a lot of the controversies that make some of the Tales of the Jedi scenes seem nonsensical didn't exist.
Why was Ulic Qel Droma a psychopathic Sith Lord? He gave into anger. That means he automatically turned evil. Giving into anger was like becoming a Vampire in those days. You became Chaotic Evil.
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 9:17am
Subject:
RE: To Fall So Far, pt. II: Ulic Qel-Droma
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Charlemagne19 posted:
Why was Ulic Qel Droma a psychopathic Sith Lord? He gave into anger. That means he automatically turned evil. Giving into anger was like becoming a Vampire in those days. You became Chaotic Evil.
those days? Seems to have a decent track record now...it just takes longer for them to fall now. 
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