| Author |
Topic:
What will fix SW after Legacy
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marmkid
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
6/24 10:35am
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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is rebooting an actual possibility?
or just disgruntled fans hopes?
because even if they started over, there would then be a whole new set of books to complain about
the story will never be universally accepted, and as with most things, the most vocal tend to be those with problems with it
i have enjoyed almost all the books i have read, and i see no need to reboot anything
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Sirius_Scott
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
6/24 11:52am
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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Jedi_Master_Luc posted:
They need to ignore the fans, flesh out any inconsistancies and or canon errors then put the whole damned era on the shelf. With KOTOR (THOUSANDS of years before ANH) and Legacy (130+yrs after ANH), there's no longer any (good) reason to keep playing in an already crowded sandbox, IMHO. New eras. New Stories. NEW HEROES!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I've been saying this for damn near a year, and its nice to see that someone else feels the same way.
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
6/24 12:53pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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Rather than phrase this as 'ignore the fans', better to take a leaf out of Legacy's book: Namely, Legacy isn't so much about ignoring the fans, as winning them over.
This is literally all that is needed, there is nothing magical about the success and wide appreciation for KOTOR and Legacy. They are well-done stories, with engaging or interesting characters, with sufficient action to hook people and a clear long-term vision.
If the work is good enough, it'll win people over and succeed to a great degree, nothing more is needed.
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AdmiralNick22
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
6/24 1:54pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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Jedi Ben posted:
Rather than phrase this as 'ignore the fans', better to take a leaf out of Legacy's book: Namely, Legacy isn't so much about ignoring the fans, as winning them over.
This is literally all that is needed, there is nothing magical about the success and wide appreciation for KOTOR and Legacy. They are well-done stories, with engaging or interesting characters, with sufficient action to hook people and a clear long-term vision.
If the work is good enough, it'll win people over and succeed to a great degree, nothing more is needed.
Well said, Ben. 
Both Miller and Ostrander are absolutely fantastic examples of authors who are capable of craftly tremendously exciting, engaging, and inventive stories. I chalk this up mostly to their skills as a storyteller, but they also have one other advantage that is sometimes overlooked.
Freedom.
Seriously, the advantages to setting a story 4000 years BBY or 137 years ABY is freedom to chart your own stories. Moreso in Legacy, but even KOTOR has very little to compete with, other than the games themselves and some tidbits from the NEC.
While I will forever love the heroes of the Original Trilogy, I am becoming more and more of the opinion that we need leave them behind and focus on new characters in EU novels.
--Adm. Nick
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
6/24 2:13pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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AdmiralNick22 :
While I will forever love the heroes of the Original Trilogy, I am becoming more and more of the opinion that we need leave them behind and focus on new characters in EU novels.
Yet if we got those "well-done stories, with sufficient action to hook people and a long-term vision" with the heroes of the Original Trilogy, I still think that people would enjoy reading them. We already know that the heroes of the OT are appealing. Fans CAN be won over again if the stories are engaging and, I think, hopeful again.
Many of us, I think, are simply frustrated with the dark, pessimistic, depressing storylines we keep getting in the post-RotJ era from Del Rey. I'd like to see the OT characters in heroic roles and rousing adventure stories again. I'd like to read satisfying, positive endings to stories again. There should be a payoff for the heroes at the end of the novels beyond mere survival. I think all of the doom and gloom is making the readers weary and the characters seem old and worn out.
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marmkid
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
6/24 2:38pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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this has been mentioned by others, but maybe if they went back to a shorter format
shorter stories, maybe not necessarily galaxy-spanning events
they could explore the time right after the NJO, with efforts shown to clean up after the vong
Jacen going off on his 5-year journey is begging to be a book or trilogy
Vergere and Lumiya background?
Ben's early times with Jacen right after the DN trilogy?
even Leia's training with Saba could be expanded on, though i guess we saw a lot of that?
Kyp, Kyle, Corran, everything they have been doing before this last war started?
but i agree, if done correctly, there is plenty to explore with the OT cast
it doesnt always need to be a huge story arc spanning years and years to be good
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
6/24 2:52pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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ChildOfWinds posted:
While I will forever love the heroes of the Original Trilogy, I am becoming more and more of the opinion that we need leave them behind and focus on new characters in EU novels.
Yet if we got those "well-done stories, with sufficient action to hook people and a long-term vision" with the heroes of the Original Trilogy, I still think that people would enjoy reading them.
I think that the point Nick and others have been making is that the time period in question is already too crowded, and the story potential of the Big Three is basically exhausted. The characters don't seem old and worn out, they are old and worn out.
You're saying that the problem is that the stories about the Big Three are poorly written. We're saying that the stories are poorly written because they're about the Big Three, and there just isn't much that can be done with them or their time period. The stories that are capturing people's attention are about new characters and new situations and time periods, which give creators the freedom to explore new territory and have characters that grow and change. So much has already been written about Han, Luke, and Leia that it's like a straitjacket for writers.
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marmkid
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
6/24 2:58pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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dizfactor posted:
ChildOfWinds posted:
While I will forever love the heroes of the Original Trilogy, I am becoming more and more of the opinion that we need leave them behind and focus on new characters in EU novels.
Yet if we got those "well-done stories, with sufficient action to hook people and a long-term vision" with the heroes of the Original Trilogy, I still think that people would enjoy reading them.
I think that the point Nick and others have been making is that the time period in question is already too crowded, and the story potential of the Big Three is basically exhausted. The characters don't seem old and worn out, they are old and worn out.
You're saying that the problem is that the stories about the Big Three are poorly written. We're saying that the stories are poorly written because they're about the Big Three, and there just isn't much that can be done with them or their time period. The stories that are capturing people's attention are about new characters and new situations and time periods, which give creators the freedom to explore new territory and have characters that grow and change. So much has already been written about Han, Luke, and Leia that it's like a straitjacket for writers.
I agree, when the context of the story is a huge 9 or 20 book arc like the NJO and LOTF was. But if its a smaller scale story or conflict, maybe concerning one planet or something, there can still be life for the big 3. They dont need to be saving the entire galaxy from death every year anymore, i totally agree with that.
There is still potential for them though, but there should be a mix of them and a bunch of new or as-yet undeveloped charactors
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vong333
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
6/24 3:44pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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In order to fix SW after or before legacy of whatever starts with a complete re-evaluation of the way stories are made and distributed. We need to stop with the outside fiction coming out on hyperspace, magazines and stuff like that. Second we need to stop with coming out with essential guides that by the time they are released are already outdated. The novels need to be just reduced in numbers to maybe two or three a year. One thing that I truly enjoyed with Zahns books was that the time frame though long, brought out what I consider to be the best books written that actually capture the true feel of the star wars OT characters plus the EU Universe. A big chunk of star wars novels that have been released in the last 13 years, with the exception of the movie novilaztions of the prequels, are really crap. The comic books, well can't say too much their, but it bothers me that efforts have not been made by Dark Horse for direct to dvd series. Heck, they have been producing comic books of star wars for 17 years. wouldn't you think its time that they start going in that direction?
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
6/24 3:45pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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One thing I do find puzzling is that there is a section of SW fandom that seems adamantly opposed to any sort of timejump forward where the big three are concerned. It's as if the notion that: There was peace, they didn't have any more aggro, they enjoyed the rest of their lives and died, isn't good enough.
It's good enough for MGS4, why not SW?
I find the notion we should have a full accounting of a fictional character's life from birth to death truly odd, what's wrong with letting 'em ride off into the sunset? The other oddity is I don't see it elsewhere. Trek fans may have once bemoaned TNG's 80 year jump forward and some may still do, but the bulk of them don't. Shannara is another long-running fantasy series that does regular timejumps, as does Feist's Riftwar. In neither case is timejumping deemed controversial, only in SW EU does this problem seem to arise.
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/24 3:53pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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In Star Wars characters are more important than in many other fictional universes, where the world itself tends to be more important and characters are often replaced with new ones. In SW it's not the fictional universe that many people follow in SW, but the characters. The universe is just the background for their adventures.
I think this is also one of the problems with DR, which doesn't seem to understand this. They think that they can kill characters and give their roles to a new one, believing that people read the novels for the universe and not the characters. That people want more stories overall, not more stories about a basic cast of characters. And when there's outrage because of character deaths, they are then baffled and in denial.
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
6/24 3:59pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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I've certainly had my share of the Big 3. Since the movies ended, they've been treated as characters from a WB cartoon; they always end up back where they started. No matter how often Coyote gets smashed up in episode 45, he'll be all healthy in #46 and still chasing the Road Runner.
It's the same with the big three. Because the OT is the one thing we all know, that's what the EU must always still connect to. That's why MF is a coupla years after LotF; because grieving big 3 won't resemble the ROTJ big 3. That's a real shame for anyone who wants more than a hundred similar adventures. For the benefit of attracting new readers, and for the need to hang on to one of the most visible aspects of the OT, the characters of the big 3 after ROTJ will never develop. It's a Catch-22; if the big 3 change, people will be upset, and if the big 3 don't change people will be upset.
Best thing, in my opinion, would be to leave them alone altogether.
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Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
6/24 4:07pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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Jedi Ben posted:
One thing I do find puzzling is that there is a section of SW fandom that seems adamantly opposed to any sort of timejump forward where the big three are concerned. It's as if the notion that: There was peace, they didn't have any more aggro, they enjoyed the rest of their lives and died, isn't good enough.
It's good enough for MGS4, why not SW?
I find the notion we should have a full accounting of a fictional character's life from birth to death truly odd, what's wrong with letting 'em ride off into the sunset? The other oddity is I don't see it elsewhere. Trek fans may have once bemoaned TNG's 80 year jump forward and some may still do, but the bulk of them don't. Shannara is another long-running fantasy series that does regular timejumps, as does Feist's Riftwar. In neither case is timejumping deemed controversial, only in SW EU does this problem seem to arise.
YES! I'm an avid reader of Shannara and Brooks has managed to have people loving characters while moving away from them and making them love new characters. Sure, from the Movies into the distant future I think there should continue to be Skywalkers at the center of the story. They'd be like the lost descendents of Jesus from the whole Holy Blood Holy Grail and Da Vinci Code thing. Only here it's a verifiable fact that this family is descended from the Jedi Messiah.
I don't even think every Skywalker has to be Force-sensitive at this point. In Shannara there's Ohmsfords all over the place and as their lineage has gotten more distant from the first to have innate magic less and less of them have had innate magic abilities. There's only one character that I can think of that Brooks really has done much expanding on and that's one full novel, one short story, and recently a graphic novel.
Time jump. Give the ABY period a rest until Legacy runs it's course(which could be a long time, hopefully) and then plunge into another jump forward. A new generation perhaps distant from Cade by a couple generations.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
6/24 4:30pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
- Date Edited:
6/24 4:32pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
dizfactor
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Rouge77 posted:
In Star Wars characters are more important than in many other fictional universes, where the world itself tends to be more important and characters are often replaced with new ones. In SW it's not the fictional universe that many people follow in SW, but the characters. The universe is just the background for their adventures.
I think that's true for a shrinking minority of fans. Most fans follow the universe primarily and characters secondarily. The balance of SW fandom has been tipping towards fans of "a galaxy far, far away" and away from fans of "the Adventures of Luke Skywalker."
If you looked at that fan poll of the best things about SW, the top slots were almost all elements of the setting and not characters. If you look at the comics, the consistent best sellers are the ones that feature new characters and new corners of the timeline. Look at all the blockbuster video games of recent years and tell me how many of them feature new characters from Kyle Katarn to Revan versus how many focus on the adventures of Luke Skywalker.
The novels have been the most resistant corner of the EU to this trend, but even now it's starting to crack. The biggest breakout writer of the past few years has been Traviss, who cemented her spot in the lineup on the strength of the RepCom books.
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"You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat."
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Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
6/24 4:41pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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You know, I love the Adventures of Luke Skywalker... but there comes a point where there's just been too many, and unfortunately the adventures have become wars more devastating than the war in which he made a name for himself.
I want Millenium Falcon to just wrap up the Big Three era and jump ahead if it MUST be done, give us the Ossus Project and the Sith-Imperial War. We still know woefully little about Kol and Nat Skywalker that's not immediately relevant to the Legacy comics. The only thing I can hope for is that John Ostrander saying he's collaborating with Troy Denning on something has to do with the Ossus Project and/or the Sith-Imperial War and Han, Luke, and Leia are out of the picture and let to fade into the twin sunset.
Why not some New Sith Wars books set in the 1,000 years prior to even the Darth Bane story starting. That's a LONG LONG LONG time period for there to be tales of Jedi and Sith fighting each other. Mandos getting into it. Fleet battles etc. All we know of the New Sith Wars in detail is what in the DB books and JvS.
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