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Topic:
What will fix SW after Legacy
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
6/24 4:57pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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Jedi Ben
One thing I do find puzzling is that there is a section of SW fandom that seems adamantly opposed to any sort of timejump forward where the big three are concerned. It's as if the notion that: There was peace, they didn't have any more aggro, they enjoyed the rest of their lives and died, isn't good enough. what's wrong with letting 'em ride off into the sunset?
Actually, I wouldn't have minded this at all after VotF, JB. In fact, that's what I thought we were getting with the Thrawn Duology: the final written story of the Big Three; a happily ever after for them; and through Luke and Mara's vision, a peak at possible imaginary futures. I expected the publishers to take a huge time jump from that point and write about a completely different cast of characters, perhaps some descended from the Heroes of Yavin, Hoth, and Endor.
However, now that the characters have lost so much and have merely survived, not really triumphed, I'm not yet ready to let the OT characters go. I feel they need one more story, a "last hurrah" as heroic characters, one more adventure that shows their best qualities and reminds all of us why we found them so appealing in the first place. And I'd like the story to have a happy ending; one that puts these characters in a hopeful place for the future, one where we can be satisfied that they're getting the peaceful and happy "rest of their lives" that they've earned. One where the readers know that the characters will be "okay". It doesn't need to be a galaxy-spanning conflict either, just a good story with the OT characters written in-character and as true heroes.
Then the authors can move forward a hundred years or more and allow the years between that final story and Legacy to be peaceful, stable, and happy ones.
And I hope we never find out how or when Luke, Leia, and Han die.
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Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
6/24 5:12pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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The problem with a Last Hurrah of the Big Three is this... it wouldn't be a last hurrah. Short of them literally riding to their deaths on tauntauns the books would be so damned successful that they'd say to themselves "90 is the new 50" and just keep putting them in more adventures. It would get to hte point where they'd have to come up with some contrived reason why they aren't present in Legacy being in the unknown regions on some silly adventure for retiree Jedi and smugglers while the youngens do all the heavy lifting back home.
Luke's last hurrah should have been TUF. That should have been Leia's too, and she should have been a Jedi Master by then... let alone having been re-declared, for the third kriffing time, a Jedi Knight. It takes courage to step away from the bread n butter of Star Wars... and I don't think LFL has the nerve. If you recall, Dark Nest was billed as the last hurrah for the big three. It was the second time we got that last hurrah/passing the torch note. It didn't happen. Luke truly showed he was the Jedi Grand Master in Invincible... but at what cost? None of us considers that storyline fitting as a last hurrah and a time for them to pass the torch. Who do they pass it too?
It's time to leave the Big Three and their kids alone and just move on. It really is. If they have to stay between 40 ABY and 137 ABY then do the Ossus Project and Sith-Imperial War. Two Skywalkers to work with there doing big things. Outside that... there's still like 2000 years of nearly completely untouched continuity between KOTOR and Darth Bane. 3 thousand if you count the fact that the New Sith Wars have only ever been told around the end with the Army of Light and Brotherhood of Darkness wars.
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AdmiralNick22
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
6/24 5:30pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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dizfactor posted:
ChildOfWinds posted:
While I will forever love the heroes of the Original Trilogy, I am becoming more and more of the opinion that we need leave them behind and focus on new characters in EU novels.
Yet if we got those "well-done stories, with sufficient action to hook people and a long-term vision" with the heroes of the Original Trilogy, I still think that people would enjoy reading them.
I think that the point Nick and others have been making is that the time period in question is already too crowded, and the story potential of the Big Three is basically exhausted. The characters don't seem old and worn out, they are old and worn out.
You're saying that the problem is that the stories about the Big Three are poorly written. We're saying that the stories are poorly written because they're about the Big Three, and there just isn't much that can be done with them or their time period. The stories that are capturing people's attention are about new characters and new situations and time periods, which give creators the freedom to explore new territory and have characters that grow and change. So much has already been written about Han, Luke, and Leia that it's like a straitjacket for writers.
Exactly. I will go even one step further- the health and future viability of Star Wars depends on getting away from the Big Three. We literally have two decades of EU works that revolve around the Big Three. The time is fast approaching to retire them. That is not to say that we cannot drop in and visit them from time to time (in the form of single novels, not arcs). But if the Star Wars Expanded Universe is to continue to be viable, a new cast of characters needs to be developed and focused on.
Dark Horse has acchieved this with Legacy. Many thought that the NJO series would be the last hurrah for the Big Three. It wasn't. IMO, Del Rey needs to make sure any post-LOTF novels focus on the next generation. We need novels to focus on Ben, Alanna, Jaina, Fel, and others. Hell, the young characters we have encountered thus far could easily assume larger roles. We have young Horns, hotshot Antilles flying for the Galactic Alliance, and other younglings that can be expanded on.
In fact, if the post-LOTF years (prior to 127 ABY) are to be less focused on galactic-scale wars, what better way to retire the Big Three than to give them some well deserved rest?
--Adm. Nick
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Master-Chief-Kenobi
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/24 5:56pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
- Date Edited:
6/24 6:01pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master-Chief-Kenobi
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The big 3 are too popular to retire. And unfortuantly the YJK/ NJO cast is not interesting enough to take over. Anikan Solo could have replaced Luke but he's the only one of the sky-solo kids that could do that & that includes Ben. What del rey needs is to move away from skywalkers. Luke is my favorite character but it's boring story-telling to make ALL of his & leia's decendants the only powerful jedi & biggest hero's of their era's. Focus on developing non-skywalker jedi like Kyp Durron, & Valin Horn.
You want a new generation of star wars characters to do novels on? Do a movie or tv series set hundreds of years after even Legacy. There's your new stories. Without tv or movie product to tie a new generation to its gonna be hard to get enough people to buy into it that they can retire the big 3.
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
6/24 6:11pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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AdmiralNick22 That is not to say that we cannot drop in and visit them from time to time (in the form of single novels, not arcs).
I actually would prefer that "last hurrah" story that I mentioned above to be a single novel, a duology, or a trilogy. Unfortunately, it seems that Del Rey prefers to do long story arcs instead. 
Also unfortunately, I think that Master Chief Kenobi is right too. I don't know that any of the current younger generation characters can carry a book series alone. I think Del Rey may have made a huge error in killing off Anakin Solo and turning Jacen dark.
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GoA
Registered:
Dec '07
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Date Posted:
6/24 6:27pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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Master-Chief-Kenobi posted:
The big 3 are too popular to retire.
I don't know why people insist this to be the case.
I mean, are we, on this forum, a complete opposite of the "real world", that the majority on here represent the minority away from the boards? Because, from what I've read, it seems that the majority on this forum are more in favor of seeing the Big Three retired. It's the minority on here that want them around.
So unless we're like the Bizarro world, I'm not sure why people think that stories without the Big Three will flop, or won't attract the attention of SW fans.
Again, it's a different genre (video games), but look how popular the Revan character is, all because of one single video game. KOTOR had nothing at all to do with the Big Three, or their lives or story, yet the game sold well, and it produced one of the most popular non-movie characters in the SW universe.
So, if that's possible, why is it so impossible that they can retire the Big Three and still sell well?
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
6/24 6:42pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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ChildOfWinds posted:
I don't know that any of the current younger generation characters can carry a book series alone.
Thankfully, books are only one part of the EU.
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Master-Chief-Kenobi
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/24 6:45pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
- Date Edited:
6/24 6:48pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master-Chief-Kenobi
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GoA posted:
Master-Chief-Kenobi posted:
The big 3 are too popular to retire.
I don't know why people insist this to be the case.
I mean, are we, on this forum, a complete opposite of the "real world", that the majority on here represent the minority away from the boards? Because, from what I've read, it seems that the majority on this forum are more in favor of seeing the Big Three retired. It's the minority on here that want them around.
So unless we're like the Bizarro world, I'm not sure why people think that stories without the Big Three will flop, or won't attract the attention of SW fans.
Again, it's a different genre (video games), but look how popular the Revan character is, all because of one single video game. KOTOR had nothing at all to do with the Big Three, or their lives or story, yet the game sold well, and it produced one of the most popular non-movie characters in the SW universe.
So, if that's possible, why is it so impossible that they can retire the Big Three and still sell well?
Cause the last time Lucas tried that we got Jar Jar & Whinekin Skywalker. I'm dreading the public reaction this august. Yeah, Indy 4 wa a huge hti the but the rediculous amount of complaining i Heard about it only because Lucas name was attached made me want smack someone.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
6/24 6:47pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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Master-Chief-Kenobi posted:
So, if that's possible, why is it so impossible that they can retire the Big Three and still sell well?
Cause the last time Lucas tried that we got Jar Jar & Whinekin Skywalker. [/quote]
I'm not sure why you think there have been no new characters introduced since 1999.
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Master-Chief-Kenobi
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/24 6:49pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
- Date Edited:
6/24 6:53pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master-Chief-Kenobi
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dizfactor posted:
Master-Chief-Kenobi posted:
So, if that's possible, why is it so impossible that they can retire the Big Three and still sell well?
Cause the last time Lucas tried that we got Jar Jar & Whinekin Skywalker.
I'm not sure why you think there have been no new characters introduced since 1999.[/quote]
Because for most people who've seen the movies there is no EU beyond the video games & maybed the thrawn trilogy, and even then thats only a small amount of people compared to those who've watched the films. The new series could overwrite the current clone wars EU continuity enterily and almost noone will care beyond us who post on the internet cause they don't know or care this material exists.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
6/24 6:56pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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Master-Chief-Kenobi posted:
dizfactor posted:
Master-Chief-Kenobi posted:
So, if that's possible, why is it so impossible that they can retire the Big Three and still sell well?
Cause the last time Lucas tried that we got Jar Jar & Whinekin Skywalker.
I'm not sure why you think there have been no new characters introduced since 1999.
Because for most people who've seen the movies there is no EU beyond the video games & maybed the thrawn trilogy, and even then thats only a small amount of people compared to those who've watched the films. The new series could overwrite the current clone wars EU continuity enterily and almost noone will care beyond us who post on the internet cause they don't know or care this material exists. [/quote]
Right. What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about retiring the Big Three from the EU material.
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Master-Chief-Kenobi
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/24 7:04pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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dizfactor posted:
Master-Chief-Kenobi posted:
dizfactor posted:
[quote=Master-Chief-Kenobi]So, if that's possible, why is it so impossible that they can retire the Big Three and still sell well?
Cause the last time Lucas tried that we got Jar Jar & Whinekin Skywalker.
I'm not sure why you think there have been no new characters introduced since 1999.
Because for most people who've seen the movies there is no EU beyond the video games & maybed the thrawn trilogy, and even then thats only a small amount of people compared to those who've watched the films. The new series could overwrite the current clone wars EU continuity enterily and almost noone will care beyond us who post on the internet cause they don't know or care this material exists. [/quote]
Right. What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about retiring the Big Three from the EU material.[/quote]
And i'm saying the best way to do it is through another non-novel medium. The KOTOR video game gave us the very succesful & popular KOTOR comic series. The future legacy-era is ripe for novels exploring its back story & behind the scene actions that arent directly involved with the main plot. Why not do something on the founding of the jedi order & the replublic & its early struggles to unite the galaxy under one banner. Do say a dvd movie then follow up with comics, games, novels etc. Whatever it is, do a movie or video game to get peoples attention then do a follow up novel series once you've got their attention. Remember more people know who Kyle Katarn is then Jacen Solo and Kyle is not nearly as important to the story.
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
6/24 7:24pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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I would love itif the big three were around for years and years, but their time to shine has passed.
You can disagree with me, but let them have their retirement. They have overstayed their presense in the eu, still at the frontlines while the other characters are pushed into secondary roles.
However, I hope that DelRey puts some thought into how they plan to kill the 3, if they do it. Give them an honorable death, not something stupid like being crushed by a moon.
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Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
6/25 7:34pm
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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Master-Chief-Kenobi posted:
The big 3 are too popular to retire. And unfortuantly the YJK/ NJO cast is not interesting enough to take over.
Hence the necessity for not only retiring the Big 3, but jumping beyond even the generation of their children. Move onto their children's children or the children's children's children. Or just wait until after Legacy runs its course and give us a generation beyond Cade Skywalker.
Seriously, if there's anymore to tell from Millenium Falcon to the Ossus Project and the Sith-Imperial War it's the Ossus Project and the Sith-Imperial War. It's not what happens with Luke, Leia, Han, Jaina, Allana and Ben. I love Ben, but I don't need another galaxy spanning civil war to see him develop into the kind of Jedi Knight and Master that his father is. I don't even need to know his story after LOTF. When it comes to wars I'm way more interested in the 5 years of warfare that led to Krayt taking over the second Empire and the exiling of the GA, Jedi and the Felpire.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
6/26 2:22am
Subject:
RE: What will fix SW after Legacy
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Master-Chief-Kenobi posted:
Remember more people know who Kyle Katarn is then Jacen Solo and Kyle is not nearly as important to the story.
I disagree. Because more people know who Kyle Katarn is than Jacen Solo, Kyle Katarn is more important, but more importantly there is no "the story." It used to be that the EU had one "main story" - the continuing adventures of the Big Three post-ROTJ. However, that is now just one story among many, and many of those stories are more well-known and thus more important. The post-ROTJ novels are only "the main story" to a dwindling number of fans who don't seem to have realized that they're not the only game in town anymore.
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