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Topic:
Yuuzhan Vong Language Thoughts
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Carnage04
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
6/7 9:59pm
Subject:
Yuuzhan Vong Language Thoughts
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I was thinking about the later NJO books....specifically when Shimmra takes command on Coruscant and has sessions addressing the members of the higher Castes.
I would assume that they are speaking to each other in their native tongue with the writer essentially "Translating" their words to Basic. That works out fine except....
Omini. Am I to believe that Onimi is speaking in Rhymes in the language of the Vong and they just happen to also translate into Rhymes in Galactic Basic? It seems unlikely that the Yuuzhan Vong would invade the galaxy, trying to destroy the culture of the infidels yet adopt their language for use amongst themselves.
I know this is kind of silly and nitpicking but I was wondering if anyone else has given this minor issue any thoughts?
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Carnage
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Lord_Hydronium
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/7 10:20pm
Subject:
RE: Yuuzhan Vong Language Thoughts
- Date Edited:
6/7 10:21pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lord_Hydronium
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The "translator" presumably picked words that would reproduce the same rhyming scheme in English while keeping the same general meaning. They do the same thing when translating rhyming poetry to foreign languages in the real world.
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Jeff_Ferguson
Registered:
May '06
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Date Posted:
6/8 12:28am
Subject:
RE: Yuuzhan Vong Language Thoughts
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It's not that infeasible to assume that you can translate rhymes from one language into another. The best real-life example is Dante's The Divine Comedy, which uses the rhyme scheme terza rima --- originally written in Colloquial Italian, it has several different translations into English. I have Inferno, Purgatory, and Paradise in excellent translations by Dorothy L. Sayers, who, in her introduction, lays out examples of her translations versus previous ones. She writes:
So I climbed to those dread shoulders obediently;
"Only do" (I meant to say, but my voice somehow
Wouldn't come out right) "please catch hold of me."
which was translated by a man named Binyon as:
On those dread shoulders did I then get hold.
I wished to say, only the voice came not
As I had meant: "Thy arms about me fold."
Clearly, to translate a rhyming epic poem, you have to take some liberties with the text while still maintaining its spirit and translating it as faithfully as you can, as is illustrated by not only the various translations of Dante's text, but the fact that a rhyming epic poem can be translated at all and still maintain rhyme. In this rhyme scheme, the rhyming syllable in the middle line of a stanza is the rhyming syllable of the first and third lines of the next stanza. Imagine how difficult that would actually be to translate, while maintaining the same rhyme scheme.
Essentially, my point is that it's perfectly logical to assume that Onimi's songs could rhyme in both languages.
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Jedi-Sith
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
6/8 6:26pm
Subject:
RE: Yuuzhan Vong Language Thoughts
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I've actually always wondered about that.... both the real world application and that scene....
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Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
6/8 7:17pm
Subject:
RE: Yuuzhan Vong Language Thoughts
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Jeff_Ferguson posted:
It's not that infeasible to assume that you can translate rhymes from one language into another. The best real-life example is Dante's The Divine Comedy, which uses the rhyme scheme terza rima --- originally written in Colloquial Italian, it has several different translations into English. I have Inferno, Purgatory, and Paradise in excellent translations by Dorothy L. Sayers, who, in her introduction, lays out examples of her translations versus previous ones. She writes:
So I climbed to those dread shoulders obediently;
"Only do" (I meant to say, but my voice somehow
Wouldn't come out right) "please catch hold of me."
which was translated by a man named Binyon as:
On those dread shoulders did I then get hold.
I wished to say, only the voice came not
As I had meant: "Thy arms about me fold."
Clearly, to translate a rhyming epic poem, you have to take some liberties with the text while still maintaining its spirit and translating it as faithfully as you can, as is illustrated by not only the various translations of Dante's text, but the fact that a rhyming epic poem can be translated at all and still maintain rhyme. In this rhyme scheme, the rhyming syllable in the middle line of a stanza is the rhyming syllable of the first and third lines of the next stanza. Imagine how difficult that would actually be to translate, while maintaining the same rhyme scheme.
Essentially, my point is that it's perfectly logical to assume that Onimi's songs could rhyme in both languages.
I've seen such translations with Chinese and Sufi(thus Arabic and Persian) poetry too. Takes some imagination to do it though, and could slightly alter the meanings...
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Carnage04
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 10:56pm
Subject:
RE: Yuuzhan Vong Language Thoughts
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Jeff_Ferguson posted:
It's not that infeasible to assume that you can translate rhymes from one language into another. The best real-life example is Dante's The Divine Comedy, which uses the rhyme scheme terza rima --- originally written in Colloquial Italian, it has several different translations into English. I have Inferno, Purgatory, and Paradise in excellent translations by Dorothy L. Sayers, who, in her introduction, lays out examples of her translations versus previous ones. She writes:
So I climbed to those dread shoulders obediently;
"Only do" (I meant to say, but my voice somehow
Wouldn't come out right) "please catch hold of me."
which was translated by a man named Binyon as:
On those dread shoulders did I then get hold.
I wished to say, only the voice came not
As I had meant: "Thy arms about me fold."
Clearly, to translate a rhyming epic poem, you have to take some liberties with the text while still maintaining its spirit and translating it as faithfully as you can, as is illustrated by not only the various translations of Dante's text, but the fact that a rhyming epic poem can be translated at all and still maintain rhyme. In this rhyme scheme, the rhyming syllable in the middle line of a stanza is the rhyming syllable of the first and third lines of the next stanza. Imagine how difficult that would actually be to translate, while maintaining the same rhyme scheme.
Essentially, my point is that it's perfectly logical to assume that Onimi's songs could rhyme in both languages.
That's pretty cool. I never thought of it in that manner.
Although, given the nature of the Vong language and how...different the interpretation of words such as "Peace" are....I still think it's unlikely that they could translate across like that. After all, some of the languages of today take parts from old languages....Languages that were created by human tongues and spoken by human tongues. I think it's a fair assumption that it would be more difficult to maintain a rhyming scheming across physiologically different species because of the phonetic noises each is able to create.
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Carnage
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