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Topic:
Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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Karohalva
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
6/8 6:12pm
Subject:
Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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Coruscant was seized by the New Republic, but was its membership in that state voluntary or involuntary? I am not suggesting it preferred Imperial warlords, only that, as far as I know, no referendum was ever taken to determine Coruscanti wishes.
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Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
6/8 6:20pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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Just judging based upon the riot scene and statue tipping at the end of ROTJ SE... I'm going to say it was a liberation.
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Karohalva
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
6/8 6:24pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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Out of a trillion beings, just a few thousand were actually seen rioting. Not convincing enough. Sourcebooks and the like all insist that Coruscant was ardently Imperial.
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AdmiralNick22
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
6/8 6:33pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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Karohalva posted:
Out of a trillion beings, just a few thousand were actually seen rioting. Not convincing enough. Sourcebooks and the like all insist that Coruscant was ardently Imperial.
Not entirely true. Keep in mind the following:
1. The Empire censored and controlled all info that was spread in the Core. The Holonet was the Emperor's private plaything.
2. Republican tradition. This world was the capital of the Old Republic for 25 millenia. The Empire controlled it for less than 30 years. Given the lifespan of people in the GFFA, almost all those alive in Coruscant when it was the center of the Republic lived to see it liberated by the New Republic.
3. The Imperial loyalists were just the people in power. And, it is well established that they fled Coruscant and linked up with the remnants of the Empire.
There is exactly zero evidence that the New Republic had trouble running Coruscant. There is no mention of large bodies of Republic troops having to be deployed to maintain order and fight pro-Imperial insurgents.
Lastly, if the EU has shown anything, it is that the Coruscanti value order more than anything. They tend to not care alot about which government is in power, so long as they are still central and still protected.
--Adm. Nick
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
6/8 6:44pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
- Date Edited:
6/8 6:46pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Charlemagne19
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Karohalva posted:
Out of a trillion beings, just a few thousand were actually seen rioting. Not convincing enough. Sourcebooks and the like all insist that Coruscant was ardently Imperial.
George Lucas' intent was it was liberation.
The EU's opinion should be considered secondary.
In George Lucas' opinion, the Empire was hated on Coruscant.
And with good reason.
The EU also agrees. When Coruscant was liberated, the citizens butchered everyone in the Imperial Palace. Even innocents. Why? Because they were hated like the Bathists in Iraq.
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Alpha-Red
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
6/8 7:56pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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No offense but....I think the portions of EU that hold some amount of realism and are already well-established should have the final say, and George Lucas's opinion should be considered secondary >_>
If the citizens of Coruscant were that impassioned about their cause then there would have been a mass migration as they go off to fight for the Rebel Alliance. Coruscant would have been a massive insurrection right in the heart of the Empire. If Coruscantis were so hostile to Imperial control, then Ysanne Isard's little insurgency would never have been able to get off the ground. No number of intelligence or terrorist operatives can hold back public opinion on that scale.
Finally, the celebration scene on Coruscant makes no sense. If people kept their Rebel sympathies hidden for twenty years then they would know better than to congregate out in the middle of nowhere and allow the Imperials to simply mow them down. You also do not include a happy-happy celebration scene if you're going to have the Empire come in and shut down the party right afterwards.
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Lord_Hydronium
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
6/8 8:03pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
- Date Edited:
6/8 8:04pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lord_Hydronium
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Charlemagne19 posted:
George Lucas' intent was it was liberation.
The EU's opinion should be considered secondary.
In George Lucas' opinion, the Empire was hated on Coruscant.
Is this based on something Lucas actually said, or is this using the Chuck-brand Author-Intent-Psychic-Powers™ again?
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
6/8 8:33pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
- Date Edited:
6/8 8:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Charlemagne19
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Lord_Hydronium posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
George Lucas' intent was it was liberation.
The EU's opinion should be considered secondary.
In George Lucas' opinion, the Empire was hated on Coruscant.
Is this based on something Lucas actually said, or is this using the Chuck-brand Author-Intent-Psychic-Powers™ again?
George Lucas put it in the movie. Are you actually going to argue that a celebration on Coruscant in the movie, represents a small minority even when George Lucas pans over the entire city with confetti?
Why do people want Coruscant not to cheer?
Why do we want them mourn the Emperor?
Why can't it be the fall of communism?
You know, which is WHAT THIS IS A VISUAL CUE TO? I dislike EU fanon that tries to change the movies.
The Empire was a universally hated Tyranny. Naboo, Coruscant, Tatooine, Bespin, and Endor are the most diverse planets imaginable yet they all celebrate the Emperor's death. He destroyed Alderaan. That's like murdering the whole of Switzerland or Chicago.
Would YOU mourn a President who did that?
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Furyan_Jedi_13
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
6/8 8:58pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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The Empire was a universally hated Tyranny. Naboo, Coruscant, Tatooine, Bespin, and Endor are the most diverse planets imaginable yet they all celebrate the Emperor's death. He destroyed Alderaan. That's like murdering the whole of Switzerland or Chicago.
Would YOU mourn a President who did that?
Personally, I wouldn't. If anything, that just made more people hate the Emperor even more.
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The_Four_Dot_Elipsis
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
6/8 9:05pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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Charlemagne19 posted:
I dislike EU fanon that tries to change the movies.
Considering Coruscant was added in 97 to be a "Hey, look at this neat planet from the upcoming prequels" that's a touch unfair.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
6/8 9:09pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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The_Four_Dot_Elipsis posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
I dislike EU fanon that tries to change the movies.
Considering Coruscant was added in 97 to be a "Hey, look at this neat planet from the upcoming prequels" that's a touch unfair.
True.
Though it wasn't until recently that the Empire was portrayed as being mourned by nearly anybody.
The HTTE books had Coruscant snuggly under the New Republic.
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
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• JCC
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/8 9:24pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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Nick: You're forgetting one crucial detail. The Empire and the Republic are one and the same. What is this business about 30 years? This tradition of the Republic is the tradition of Coruscant, and the Empire was the culmination of Coruscant's role as the head of the galaxy.
We know for certain that the Emperor was adored, venerated, and even thought of as a demigod by the populace on Coruscant. We know that Coruscant was ardently pro-Imperial and was the one place where Imperial ideology was fully accepted.
We've known this since the old EU, and it's repeatedly confirmed in the new EU.
At best, the populace was indifferent to the Rebel occupation of the planet and knew better than to revolt, but it's most certainly an occupation.
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reagan64
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
6/8 9:28pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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Charlemagne19 posted:
The HTTE books had Coruscant snuggly under the New Republic.
The scenes on Coruscant in those books were all set in the Imperial Palace, ie. the bastion of the New Republic's authority, or otherwise involved the inner circle of that heirarchy. We don't get what the man on the street thinks. That's like watching The West Wing and saying that everyone in the country supports Bartlet.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
6/8 9:36pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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reagan64 posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
The HTTE books had Coruscant snuggly under the New Republic.
The scenes on Coruscant in those books were all set in the Imperial Palace, ie. the bastion of the New Republic's authority, or otherwise involved the inner circle of that heirarchy. We don't get what the man on the street thinks. That's like watching The West Wing and saying that everyone in the country supports Bartlet.
Occam's Razor.
The Rogue Squadron books also had it clear that the majority of people supported the New Republic.
It helped that Kirtan Loor's Imperial Resistance was also a bunch of baby killers.
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DarthKuriboh
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
6/8 10:09pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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GrandAdmiralJello posted:
Nick: You're forgetting one crucial detail. The Empire and the Republic are one and the same. What is this business about 30 years? This tradition of the Republic is the tradition of Coruscant, and the Empire was the culmination of Coruscant's role as the head of the galaxy.
We know for certain that the Emperor was adored, venerated, and even thought of as a demigod by the populace on Coruscant. We know that Coruscant was ardently pro-Imperial and was the one place where Imperial ideology was fully accepted.
We've known this since the old EU, and it's repeatedly confirmed in the new EU.
At best, the populace was indifferent to the Rebel occupation of the planet and knew better than to revolt, but it's most certainly an occupation.
Wow. hi, my name is reality. Too bad we've never met.
okay now that I've gotten that out of my system, to say that the emperor was venerated BY FREE WILL OF THE CITIZENRY is absolutely the single most incorrect thing possible. We know the SENATE, under the mind control power of the dark side, was willing to let Palps name himself emperor. The citizenry of Coruscant saw him as the "guiding power" of the Republic's victory in the Clone Wars, without ever knowing that he CAUSED it. And I tend to think about it (and probably correctly) in the sense of the citzenry knew better than to revolt against the EMPEROR thanks to his loads of clone troopers and his well known love of orbital bombardment.
Also don't forget, Coruscant also had that system of artificial air scrubbers that Palps had made and controlled, so that if there were an insurrection he could cut off the air supply, and strangle Corsuscant. they say he kept it secret. But did he really? Terror tactics were the emperor's tea and crumpets. he LOVED terrorizing the populace of every planet under imperial control.
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Nobody145
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
6/8 10:39pm
Subject:
RE: Coruscant: occupation or liberation?
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If this were an optimistic EU, I'd say it was liberation. Right now, with the way things are going, with how we have occasional discussions in EU novels where people wish the Empire was still in power (mainly in discussions relating to the YV War), the answer isn't so clear-cut.
I'm with Charlemagne on this mostly though. The Special Editions had celebrations on Coruscant, with the people tearing down a statue of Palpatine as soon as news of his death spreads, so I think its implied that people liked the Alliance killing Palpatine.
In the EU, however, in the Wraith Squadron novel Iron Fist, a pilot mentions his resistance cell leaked the news, leading to cheering masses in one of the Coruscant's plazas before the Imperials shot the crowd. And it does kinda make sense that the oppresive Empire wouldn't like people celebrating in the streets the death of the ruler on the galactic capital planet. But I still miss the simpliicity of just thinking everybody hated Palpatine.
During the Rogue Squadron novels, there didn't seem to be much problems with New Republic people moving through the normal streets, although that was during the Krytos plague, so there were bigger things to worry about. Later on, though, Jaina and Jacen were friends with Zekk, one of Coruscant's underdwellers, and there wasn't too much danger (well, no more than whenever the Solo children were kidnapped). Its not like the New Republic government had to deal with frequent protests against their rule. At least during the Bantam era of books.
After VotF... well, everybody has something to whine about. During LotF, they had Bothan assasins and Corellian terrorists everywhere it seemed. At least during Legacy era, the Empire conquered Coruscant, and then the Sith took over, and there aren't frequent protests, but Sith governments tend to be the ones who gun down everybody in the general area of protestors, whether they're protesting or not, so that's probably why there arne't more protests. At least during the early years of the New Republic, there didn't seem to protests. I just hope they don't ruin that image in upcoming books.
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