beccatoria posted:Dude! Thank you for the plug! I don't actually have anything here to help you because...I'm not a Fleet Junkie and trying to be one makes me want to stab myself in the eye. Which isn't intended as a jab at you fine Fleet Junkies out there, CONTINUITY NEEDS YOU!, it's just that my brain isn't built to understand it... But since you mentioned me in the thread topic, I felt it would be bad form not to show up, say that I will be reading this thread with interest as an observer, and thank you for the plug! BFC discussion should be gearing up again with book 2 in July and obviously anything specifically pertaining to Shield of Lies is more than a welcome topic for that thread too. *makes efforts to understand complexities of Fleet Junkiehood*
Sinrebirth posted: When I encounter the Aramadia, however, I want to hurt myself. Not to say I haven't read it before, but the holes in my memory regarding the New Republic Black Fleet are irritating enough without inconsistencies. So. This is what we have.
Sinrebirth posted:This assumedly consists of a similar grouping as the Azure Hammer Command. A bona fide SSD - discounting Aramadia for a moment as it isn't a bona fide Executor-class SSD - and 57 capital ships, which I'm colloquially assuming includes, mostly, Star Destroyers. As it's nonsensical to have 57 Strike-class cruisers defending the Imperial Sector clear to Kiribi in the Colonies. This is irrelevant, factually, for now.
Sinrebirth posted:New Republic Intelligence misses 44 Star Destroyers from it's books. In an Empire spanning 25,000 ISDs alone, you'd think this is minor. But in a post-Byss Galaxy where the NR seems to have 5 fleets fielding 20 Star Destroyers and 40 Star Cruisers in each... 44 is a lot.
Sinrebirth posted:This includes 3 Super-class Star Destroyers, and 'nothing smaller than an Interdictor' i.e. 600m Immobilizer-class cruiser.
Sinrebirth posted: I propose, obviously as we have a 'corvette' in the Farlax Sector, that New Republic Intelligence was right, and wrong. Simply because there isn't anything on the books attached to the Command smaller than an 600m cruiser doesn't mean there wasn't actually - perhaps they're talking about capital ships, as in bona fide capital ships, that hazy area that treats a ship that isn't pointy or Mon Cal as special, and everything else below VSD as as numerous as sin?
Sinrebirth posted:So. 44 ships including 3 SSDs of various kinds.
Sinrebirth posted:Tyrant's Test, I believe, says the Yevetha have 29 Star Destroyers of various designs, and four which have copied I.D. signatures. This removes four Star Destroyers from the list as from the original N.R.I. Black Fleet. So, the Yevetha secured 25 Star Destroyers from the Empire, and then constructed 4 more. (And repaired the Redoubtable, of course - more on that later).
Sinrebirth posted:Composition Intimidator - Executor-class SSD Aramadia - SSD of a kind Possible SSDs? EX-F - Star Destroyer? Dreadnaught? 'Star Dreadnaught' perhaps? - Glory Imperator - Interdictor? Dreadnaught? - or is this a 600m Interdictor named Splendor of Yevetha? The rest being made up of Star Destroyers? Thoughts? I'm seeing 'sixty Star Destroyers' threw about on Wookiepedia, and I can't recall anything which suggests as much.
AdmiralNick22 posted:As for the SSD Aramadia... Not the finest example of an author doing his research.
Bly posted:I'm no Fleet Junkie, but I always thought the numbers of Black Sword Command were inflated. I mean, not even Death Squadron had 3 SSD's.
Bly posted:However, I can help you out with the EX-F. One of the books, I believe it was either BTS or SOL, calls it a "weapons and propulsion systems testbed mounted on a Dreadnaught hull," or words to that effect.
Excellence posted:Is 3 Superstars really that bad? Okay, in what way are they bad?
Daniel-K posted:Is it really asking too much for the people over at WotC to give some considerations to reality in their quest to remake canon into what they want? They landed it on the surface of the planet? And the planet has a diameter of only 9500 km? The horizon would only be about 4.3 km. You wouldn't be able to place most ships there - even placing the Lusankya required burying it.
Daniel-K posted:This is the source that the name star dreadnaught eventually came from.
Daniel-K posted:I just read that. My goodness. *rubs temples* Is it really asking too much for the people over at WotC to give some considerations to reality in their quest to remake canon into what they want? They landed it on the surface of the planet? And the planet has a diameter of only 9500 km? The horizon would only be about 4.3 km. You wouldn't be able to place most ships there - even placing the Lusankya required burying it. That's about the only option here - bury most of the craft, use support struts for the prow. Of course, that ignore the sheer idiocy of the act (you don't give a freaking starship to the guys who have shown they are a berserker civilization) and the fact that canonically the Yevetha were kept basically under lock and key until the NR got distracted by the Vong, and then the Vong glassed them. Plus gravity would be only 76% that of earth.
Daniel-K posted:It is rather nonsensical to have 57 star destroyers. Star cruisers makes much more sense. A Grand Admiral's command was basically suppossed to be able to go anywhere and topple anyone else's without breaking a sweat, including the other Great Powers. You may want to look at "Rattling the Sabre" on Domis Publica. It has a rather excellent breakdown of how oversectors and roving commands operated.
Daniel-K posted:the 5th fleet doesn't mean there are only 5 fleets. Command regions are independent of fleet size and strength. Further, the NR just got badly mauled in Shadowhand and favors a decentralized sector strong, federal weak approach.
Daniel-K posted:Plus you may want to think of it as 44 WMDs running around loose - a star destroyer or greater can execute aBDZ without more then a trivial expenditure of effort.
Daniel-K posted:Incorrect quote. It was nothing smaller then a Victory class. Which is why the EX-F is the source for the term star dreadnaught - it was a dreadnaught that was not a dreadnought class heavy cruiser/star frigate. The interdictor in the capture sequence is likely a Dominator subtype of the Imperial class, or the EX-F is equipped with gravity well generators (quite possible given its testbed role)
Daniel-K posted:A possibility, though it could also be that the corvette was not part of the black fleet, but assigned to the shipyards.
Daniel-K posted:With the caveat that at that time SSD meant only Executor class star dreadnaughts, sure.
Daniel-K posted:It doesn't give a count for duplicate IDs IIRC. We are simply told that they copied the ships exactly, without fully understanding what they were doing.
Daniel-K posted:Major Sorren mentions three ships specifically when they lot their takeover, I always figured those were the other Executor class ships.
Daniel-K posted:Indeed not. And perhaps the most offensive bit of this nonsense from WotC is that KMac was one of the few writers to actually try and work out all the physics and plausibility with a galaxy spanning supercivilization.
Daniel-K posted:Yes. And since there were no star frigates in the black fleet, it means that dreadnaught is not being used to describe the familiar 600 meter craft, but some kind of battleship. This is the source that the name star dreadnaught eventually came from.
DaggerSword posted:Well, the Executor could apparantly land or at least hover in an atmosphere in Marvel 63: The Mind Spider.
DaggerSword posted: Since the Aramadia appears to be a much smaller ship, given its illustration on the map, it's conceivable they found some room for it.
DaggerSword posted:Just look at those core ships in AOTC, multiple kilometers of starships sitting on Geonosis just fine.
DaggerSword posted: And those were active vessels, not museums. The less said about the Republic allowing this towing from Byss to N'zoth, the better.
DaggerSword posted:The Executor itself was called a dreadnaught as early as Darth Vader Strikes.
Sinrebirth posted:I can't comment on the planetary tidbits, per se. I could imagine the NR not noticing a few things in the Fey'lya years, of course.
Sinrebirth posted:I've read it, but star cruisers/destroyers is irrelevant for the purposes of the discussion. More of an aside than anything else. I doubt there's just 57 Star Destroyers/cruisers. Smaller vessels wouldn't be necessarily counted as obviously. As standard deployment to a sector (24 SDs, 1600 combat vessels, 800 supply vessels) implies a ratio of 1 Star Destroyer: 100 minor vessels. Thus, 57 Star Destroyers and 5700 support craft strikes me as capable of defeating a Great Power like the Hapans. But that is an aside.
Sinrebirth posted:I'm not sure if the traditional 'sector fleet' exists anymore post-Shadowhand, outside of the Remnant - and even then post-Vong War not necessarily in the Remnant. Command fleets are most certainly independent, but it's fairly clear, post-Byss, that the organised 'sector fleet' pooled by local forces doesn't exist - otherwise systems would have been more capable of defending themselves during the Yuuzhan Vong War, and the subsequent wars. Considering almost every system was almost 100% reliant on the New Republic Defence Force - the Five Fleets.
Sinrebirth posted:Ah. I recall now. I don't believe there is any proof in the text that the EX-F has gravity wells? Though I vaguely recall the EC - not NEC - suggested an Interdictor had joined the Pellaeon Empire? So the EX-F is more likely the next 'Super Star Destroyer'?
Sinrebirth posted:And the shipyards belonged to Black Sword Command - no?
Sinrebirth posted:Possibly, in this position... an SSD is a generic term (as it is N.R.I and the text specifically describes the Intimidator as an Executor-class Star Destroyer...?) covering the umbrella 'Bigger Than An ISD' term that seems to exist? With the Megador a 'Super-class' Star Destroyer yet only 5 times more powerful than an ISD II? (Attempting to not start an SSD debate, here)
Sinrebirth posted:Four was the count we were given in Tyrant's Test, when counting the Yevetha strength early in the novel. 96 capital ships, 29 Imperial Designs, 4 of which were copies, and the balance being thrustships. I don't have the books handy, but I've gone over those figures more times than I care count.
Sinrebirth posted:*tries to recall* Intimidator and... Harramin? I'm not too clear, here.
Sinrebirth posted:Point. Yet, he gave the NR 11,000 member worlds... I always treat this as the NR being somewhat invalidated as a galactic government after the Emperor returned, and it having enough worlds to 'control' the 3/4 that weren't Imperial at this point per the Cracken's Threat Dossier.
Sinrebirth posted:Which arguably the Beauty of Yevetha invalidates, as a corvette...?
Sinrebirth posted:A single SSD has the potential to lay waste to fleets. Arguably, not a single one has fulfilled that potential as far as we can tell, but the Iron Fist engaged a Hapan armada, and the Rebel Fleet that survived Endor was 80% crippled with the Executor, after all. So... it's the potential. They require a tremendous amount of resources focusing upon them.
DarthBoba posted:Man, damaged beyond repair. I wonder the fang did that to something that size.
