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Topic:
was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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JediJones420
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
6/25 10:08am
Subject:
was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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Ever since Episode II, I have been intrigued by the character of Sifo-Dyas and his role in the creation of the clone army....according to Wookiepedia, he had the gift of precognition...
Do you guys think it was possible that Palpatine had an direct influence on Sifo-Dyas' visions...through his dreams (like Palpatine did with Anakin) or by projecting his own visions of the jedi's upcoming demise on Sifo-Dyas (sort-of like what Luke does to Jacen in Invincible), to bring him into action....
this is from the Wookiepedia page on Force Visions:
However, the Jedi warned that the future was always in motion, and that the events were only possible. As such, interpreting a vision by oneself was generally considered dangerous.
Considering the fact that the Jedi Council didn't know about the army until it was ready to march...Sifo-Dyas acted alone on his visions....but why? Something as big as having visions about the destruction of everything you know and love...you'd think he'd be screaming about it to anyone who listens. So how far did Palpatine's influence have hold over Sifo-Dyas' actions?
Thoughts, comments, analysis? :-)
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timmoishere
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/25 10:33am
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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Sifo-Dyas was acting independently. Sidious learned of Sifo's plans and decided to let him go along with it, since the army would be useful in the future. After Sifo had placed the order, Sidious ordered Dooku to kill Sifo, as well as erase Kamino from the Jedi archives. Then Dooku found Jango Fett and the rest is history.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
6/25 10:43am
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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yep..
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
6/25 11:11am
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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Why did they scrap the: "Sifo-Dyas was an alias used by Sidious" plan again? That was a lot better.
I like the idea that Sidious was influencing Sifo-Dyas visions, however. Anything to get him involved with the Clone Army's creation again would make me happy.
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
6/25 11:48am
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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timmoishere posted:
Sifo-Dyas was acting independently. Sidious learned of Sifo's plans and decided to let him go along with it, since the army would be useful in the future. After Sifo had placed the order, Sidious ordered Dooku to kill Sifo, as well as erase Kamino from the Jedi archives. Then Dooku found Jango Fett and the rest is history.
More accurately, Sidious told Dooku that Sifo-Dyas was acting independently. I think the balance of probability still is that Sidious was behind the whole thing somehow, simply because there's no explanation of how Sifo-Dyas would have paid for the thing, or explanation why he would want it in the first place.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
6/25 12:02pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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sabarte posted:
timmoishere posted:
Sifo-Dyas was acting independently. Sidious learned of Sifo's plans and decided to let him go along with it, since the army would be useful in the future. After Sifo had placed the order, Sidious ordered Dooku to kill Sifo, as well as erase Kamino from the Jedi archives. Then Dooku found Jango Fett and the rest is history.
More accurately, Sidious told Dooku that Sifo-Dyas was acting independently. I think the balance of probability still is that Sidious was behind the whole thing somehow, simply because there's no explanation of how Sifo-Dyas would have paid for the thing, or explanation why he would want it in the first place.
Was Sifo-Dyas an early candidate for Sidious' Apprentice, perhaps?
We're told he was scouting around following Maul's death, after all. Courting the great and powerful like, uh, urm... Vergere. 
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
6/25 12:08pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
- Date Edited:
6/25 12:16pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
sabarte
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Eh, he heavily implies that Dooku was chosen to be courted as a replacement even before Maul got himself killed in EGTTF, IIRC. But that may just be Sids puffing himself up 
Seriously, Dooku's head and shoulders above other possible candidates - literally. 
I'd be amused if Sifo-Dyas also betrayed Dooku in some way, because that's totally the story of his life.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
6/25 12:58pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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sabarte posted:
Eh, he heavily implies that Dooku was chosen to be courted as a replacement even before Maul got himself killed in EGTTF, IIRC. But that may just be Sids puffing himself up
Well, following Maul's death, his first thought isn't: "Time for Dooku to step in" but rather, "I need to find a new apprentice". In the TPM novel, anyway. Though, granted, this probably has more to do with Dooku not existing OOU at that point.
My assumption, going with this "replacement courting" thing, is that Sidious had a whole bunch of candidates on the go but that, yes, Dooku was the number one choice. There was always the possibility that the Dook would say "no", after all.
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
6/25 2:44pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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Ulicus posted:
Why did they scrap the: "Sifo-Dyas was an alias used by Sidious" plan again? That was a lot better.
Was that really the original plan? Inbetween 02 and 05, I assumed it to be the case, but then I was extremely confused that it wasn't mentioned again in ROTS.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
6/25 2:51pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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SuperWatto posted:
Was that really the original plan?
Seems so. He started out as "Sido-Dyas"
SuperWatto posted:
Inbetween 02 and 05, I assumed it to be the case, but then I was extremely confused that it wasn't mentioned again in ROTS.
Yeah... I think it's probably something they dropped before the release of AotC. Originally, neither Obi-Wan or anyone else had heard of: "Sido-Dyas", whereas Obi-Wan obviously has heard of Master Sifo-Dyas in the final screenplay.
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Darth-Ghost
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
6/25 3:05pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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My personal guess is that Sidious was looking into both Dooku and Syfo-Dyas as possible apprentices, to test Darth Maul's power and worthiness.
Then Darth Maul died, so Sidious decided to arrange a fight between these two as Maul's possible replacements. Winner becomes his new apprentice, loser... dies.
He found Vergere stumbled onto him too, and was grooming her to be an early test for Dooku to "deal with," but then she betrayed Sidious and ran off with the Yuuzhan Vong before he could have Dooku kill her as another one of his tests.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/5 8:44pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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sabarte posted:
or explanation why he would want it in the first place.
His visions of the coming crisis.
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/5 8:49pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
His visions of the coming crisis.
That's an explanation that's not really an explanation. Most people don't respond to visions of disaster by ordering a clone army and associated fleet with no way to pay for it.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/5 9:03pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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I don't understand the point of Sidious supposedly lying to Dooku about Sifo ordering the army. If in fact Sifo had not made the initial contact, when Dooku got involved he would have found this out.
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/5 9:10pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
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I'm not saying Sidious was lying about the army being ordered. I'm saying that the idea that Sifo-Dyas did it completely on his own beggars belief.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/5 9:17pm
Subject:
RE: was Sifo-Dyas influenced by Sidious?
- Date Edited:
7/5 9:18pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Arawn_Fenn
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Oh, he definitely may have been influenced. 
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