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Topic:
Slave I has Turbolasers?
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Daniel-K
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
6/29 4:07pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
- Date Edited:
6/29 4:09pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Daniel-K
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UltimateMandalore posted:
I am reading bloodlines and Boba Fett states that Slave I is armed with Turbolasers. On page 119 the 4th paragraph it says "If anything went wrong, he had the firepower of a small warship to get out of trouble-turbolasers, ion cannon, torpedoes, and concussion missiles." I looked on wookiepedia but no mention of turblasers. Is this true or just an error?
Oh my, a continuity error in a Traviss book? I never thought I would hear of such a thing. I don't believe you - next you will try to tell me that Bloodlines has a hyperdrive only propel the ship at 50% the speed of light. 
Yeah, it is a screwup. The fact that that same line also claims that a personal transport has the same power as a small warship should have been a real good tipoff that you should ignore it.
rumsmuggler posted:
qft.
QFT = "Quoted For Truth". SO you are supposed to quote something when you use it.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
6/29 4:26pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
- Date Edited:
6/29 4:29pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
rumsmuggler
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Daniel-K posted:
rumsmuggler posted:
qft.
QFT = "Quoted For Truth". SO you are supposed to quote something when you use it.
What the frak are you going on about? Did you not see the reply above it?
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Robimus
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
6/29 5:16pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
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[quote=Daniel-K]Oh my, a continuity error in a Traviss book? I never thought I would hear of such a thing. I don't believe you - next you will try to tell me that Bloodlines has a hyperdrive only propel the ship at 50% the speed of light.
Yeah, it is a screwup. The fact that that same line also claims that a personal transport has the same power as a small warship should have been a real good tipoff that you should ignore it.
How is it a screw up if snub fighters from Dark Empire had Turbolasers? Pages 102 & 103 of the Dark Empire WEG source book. Please tell why you think its a screw up?
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Daniel-K
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
6/29 6:22pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
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rumsmuggler posted:
What the frak are you going on about? Did you not see the reply above it?
You didn't quote him.
Robimus posted:
Daniel-K posted:
Oh my, a continuity error in a Traviss book? I never thought I would hear of such a thing. I don't believe you - next you will try to tell me that Bloodlines has a hyperdrive only propel the ship at 50% the speed of light.
Yeah, it is a screwup. The fact that that same line also claims that a personal transport has the same power as a small warship should have been a real good tipoff that you should ignore it.
How is it a screw up if snub fighters from Dark Empire had Turbolasers? Pages 102 & 103 of the Dark Empire WEG source book. Please tell why you think its a screw up?
Slave 1 is not an A-9 Interceptor. It does not mount TLs. It is a screw up.
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Robimus
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
6/29 6:38pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
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Daniel-K posted:
Slave 1 is not an A-9 Interceptor. It does not mount TLs. It is a screw up.
Right, Slave 1 is bigger than an A-9. I just don't see whay it wouldn't work. If they can mount them on an A-9, they can mount them on a Firespray. A-9's are 7.4 meters, Slave 1 is just over 21 meters in length and much bulkier. I don't see how this is a mistake at all based on the info I have available.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
6/29 8:15pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
- Date Edited:
6/29 8:20pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
rumsmuggler
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Daniel-K posted:
rumsmuggler posted:
What the frak are you going on about? Did you not see the reply above it?
You didn't quote him.
I don't have to quote him bud. We aren't playing by any structured rules here.
There shouldn't be any problems mounting small TL's on Slave I. They should have the proper weapons tech by the time of LOTF to make turbolasers to fit smaller ships. They are probably expensive as hell, but Fett can afford them.
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Daniel-K
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
6/29 9:23pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
- Date Edited:
6/29 9:25pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Daniel-K
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rumsmuggler posted:
I don't have to quote him bud. We aren't playing by any structured rules here.
Whatever floats you boat. I was just pointing out it makes you look like one of those guys who uses terms without knowing what they mean.
rumsmuggler posted:
There shouldn't be any problems mounting small TL's on Slave I. They should have the proper weapons tech by the time of LOTF to make turbolasers to fit smaller ships. They are probably expensive as hell, but Fett can afford them.
If we are talking about in theory mounting a TL on a ship that size, no it shouldn't be an issue. The problem is that the armament of Slave 1 has been established already. TLs are not a part of it. If we are talking why Slave 1 could not be modified, the issue is the power plant. The A-9 is specifically said to had a special power plant to handle the draw for its heavy laser cannons, and the Hornet Interceptor ones are said to be unstable as all get out and also require a special power plant. More to the point, the higher the yield the greater the recoil; look at the mounting position for the laser cannons. Fire something with more power there and you are going to send the ship into a spin.
Robimus posted:
Daniel-K posted:
Slave 1 is not an A-9 Interceptor. It does not mount TLs. It is a screw up.
Right, Slave 1 is bigger than an A-9. I just don't see whay it wouldn't work. If they can mount them on an A-9, they can mount them on a Firespray. A-9's are 7.4 meters, Slave 1 is just over 21 meters in length and much bulkier. I don't see how this is a mistake at all based on the info I have available.
1) length isn't the issue; power, internal bracing, center of mass, and heat dissipation would be. If you want to drag this into a tech discussion I really recommend giving a bit more thought to your arguments. Length is irrelevant.
2) It is a mistake because the armament of Slave 1 was previously established. A "small warship" is, charitably, something the size of a strike cruiser.
3) the A-9 got retconned to mounting heavy laser cannons instead of TLs because other people caught the screw up in the DESB. Closest thing you have now is the "turbo-charged laser cannons" on the Hornet interceptor, which are specifically cited as being unstable and requiring a special power system with extra capacitors.
4) The most damming argument against why it wouldn't work (aside from other canon) would be recoil. T=F*cosA*L where L is the length of the spar they are mounted on, F is the force of recoil, and A is the angle they are fired from, and T is the torue it experiences. Wouldn't be that big a deal, but the same book here also puts the yield strength of durasteel at 80 kg/m^2, about the same as rubber. Anything of appreciable strength there is going to spin the ship like a top at best and rip it apart at worse.
Look, Bloodlines claims, among other things
* Durasteel has a yield strength of 80 kg/m^2. That is less then wood, and about that of rubber. Also note that these are the wrong units for yield strength, strength is force over area, not mass over area.
* The top speed of an X-wing is a shade over 2000 m/s (for reference to make it to the Death Star in time the X-wings had to hit a peak velocity of 10% the speed of light or 30,000,000 m/s in ANH)
* Humans can take thousands of G's uncompensated (Boba should have been a red paste when he tried it)
* Hyperdrives are slower then the speed of light (2 instances of this)
* The quote that started this thread.
Without even going into anything else, it should be pretty clear that as a source of technical data, Bloodlines fails. Need I remind you this also the book that claims Boba Fett was 13 at AotC - not as a typo or printing error, but as part of the fleshing out of a character's backstory. Drawing facts from it is iffy in the extreme.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
6/29 9:35pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
- Date Edited:
6/29 10:49pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
rumsmuggler
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Daniel-K posted:
rumsmuggler posted:
I don't have to quote him bud. We aren't playing by any structured rules here.
Whatever floats you boat. I was just pointing out it makes you look like one of those guys who uses terms without knowing what they mean.
Ok..
Thanks for pointing that out, but I could care less how I seem to look to most people.
Daniel-K posted:
rumsmuggler posted:
There shouldn't be any problems mounting small TL's on Slave I. They should have the proper weapons tech by the time of LOTF to make turbolasers to fit smaller ships. They are probably expensive as hell, but Fett can afford them.
If we are talking about in theory mounting a TL on a ship that size, no it shouldn't be an issue. The problem is that the armament of Slave 1 has been established already. TLs are not a part of it. If we are talking why Slave 1 could not be modified, the issue is the power plant. The A-9 is specifically said to had a special power plant to handle the draw for its heavy laser cannons, and the Hornet Interceptor ones are said to be unstable as all get out and also require a special power plant. More to the point, the higher the yield the greater the recoil; look at the mounting position for the laser cannons. Fire something with more power there and you are going to send the ship into a spin.
Power plants can be changed..
More to the point, the higher the yield the greater the recoil; look at the mounting position for the laser cannons. Fire something with more power there and you are going to send the ship into a spin.
There are other places to mount cannons(Jangos rapid fire cannons in AOTC weren't the cannons mounted on the bottom of the ship) and the recoil isn't a major problem. They have ways to work around that.
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W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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Robimus
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
6/29 11:07pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
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Daniel-K posted:
length isn't the issue; power, internal bracing, center of mass, and heat dissipation would be. If you want to drag this into a tech discussion I really recommend giving a bit more thought to your arguments. Length is irrelevant.
Slave 1 is as wide as it is long, and I did mention "bulkier". It's center of mass wouldn't make any difference when compared to the A-9. One could easily assume these issues are compensated for.
2) It is a mistake because the armament of Slave 1 was previously established. A "small warship" is, charitably, something the size of a strike cruiser.
And thus could never change, not even in the 37 years between ESB and LOTF  The small warship part is subjective. If a Skipray Blastboat can be classified as a capital ship(HOTE Source), it could be reffering to that, or even a Corellian Corvette. Just assuming what size of "war ship" Traviss is reffering to is wide open. Look at how different computers and other technologies are from 1971 till 2008. What ate up entire rooms in 1971 now fits in our lap.
3) the A-9 got retconned to mounting heavy laser cannons instead of TLs because other people caught the screw up in the DESB.
If you could point me to the Retcon. I am attemping to provide sources.
4) The most damming argument against why it wouldn't work (aside from other canon) would be recoil.
This is based on the assumption that their is only one size of Turbolaser in the entire galaxy, and that the tech has not changed at all in 37 years. Even the Star Wars Encylopedia(dated I'm sure) doesn't state that they are exclusive to one function, just that they are usually mounted on capital ships or surface based installations. The same source states they have built in cryogenic cooling units.
Without even going into anything else, it should be pretty clear that as a source of technical data, Bloodlines fails. Need I remind you this also the book that claims Boba Fett was 13 at AotC - not as a typo or printing error, but as part of the fleshing out of a character's backstory. Drawing facts from it is iffy in the extreme.
Is there an effort being made to claim that Traviss/Editors didn't make mistakes, no. Not at all. But this turbolaser issue is not that clear cut. If Dark Empire made errors in 1993, why not include them along side Bloodlines?
Most Star Wars books have continuity errors of some kind or another, this is not exclusive to Traviss, though I admit her retcon's have been difficult at times. We are at the mercy of the authors if we want to be or not. I await your response as I admit my sources may not be up to date, but they are still sources none the less.
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TIEPilot051999
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
6/30 6:43am
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
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Daniel-K posted:
Oh my, a continuity error in a Traviss book? I never thought I would hear of such a thing.
That's what I was gonna say.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
6/30 7:32pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
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Daniel-K posted:
* Hyperdrives are slower then the speed of light (2 instances of this)
You're kidding me. That's really in the book?
And nobody caught it at the editorial level?
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Havac
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/1 6:05pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
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Daniel-K posted:
rumsmuggler posted:
There shouldn't be any problems mounting small TL's on Slave I. They should have the proper weapons tech by the time of LOTF to make turbolasers to fit smaller ships. They are probably expensive as hell, but Fett can afford them.
If we are talking about in theory mounting a TL on a ship that size, no it shouldn't be an issue. The problem is that the armament of Slave 1 has been established already. TLs are not a part of it. If we are talking why Slave 1 could not be modified, the issue is the power plant. The A-9 is specifically said to had a special power plant to handle the draw for its heavy laser cannons, and the Hornet Interceptor ones are said to be unstable as all get out and also require a special power plant. More to the point, the higher the yield the greater the recoil; look at the mounting position for the laser cannons. Fire something with more power there and you are going to send the ship into a spin.
Because certainly the same series (possibly the same book; I don't recall precisely) establishing that nothing in the ship was original anymore, short of the seat, has no impact on whether older stats for the ship apply.
Because certainly Boba couldn't have bought a new power plant to go along with his new turbolasers.
Because certainly Star Wars lacks inertial compensators.
In short, I'm not seeing your argument.
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Mange
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
7/2 3:04pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
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Havac posted:
Daniel-K posted:
rumsmuggler posted:
There shouldn't be any problems mounting small TL's on Slave I. They should have the proper weapons tech by the time of LOTF to make turbolasers to fit smaller ships. They are probably expensive as hell, but Fett can afford them.
If we are talking about in theory mounting a TL on a ship that size, no it shouldn't be an issue. The problem is that the armament of Slave 1 has been established already. TLs are not a part of it. If we are talking why Slave 1 could not be modified, the issue is the power plant. The A-9 is specifically said to had a special power plant to handle the draw for its heavy laser cannons, and the Hornet Interceptor ones are said to be unstable as all get out and also require a special power plant. More to the point, the higher the yield the greater the recoil; look at the mounting position for the laser cannons. Fire something with more power there and you are going to send the ship into a spin.
Because certainly the same series (possibly the same book; I don't recall precisely) establishing that nothing in the ship was original anymore, short of the seat, has no impact on whether older stats for the ship apply.
Because certainly Boba couldn't have bought a new power plant to go along with his new turbolasers.
Because certainly Star Wars lacks inertial compensators.
In short, I'm not seeing your argument.
Because certainly the specs for the Slave I (post-AOTC) was established by a multitude of sources. 
I don't buy the "bought a new power plant" argument either. A small ship such as Slave I would be fairly limited.
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JEDIGUNSHIP
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
7/2 3:12pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
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It's a "scout ship", so room is already limited. Turbolasers are larger than the ship itself, so it would need to carry around much smaller batteries in order to fly.
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
7/2 3:17pm
Subject:
RE: Slave I has Turbolasers?
- Date Edited:
7/2 3:22pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthBoba
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Sorry, but turbolasers are not larger than Slave I, as I pointed out last page.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/AT-AT#Beyond_Endor
Beyond Endor
Sometime after the Battle of Endor, the Empire replaced the AT-AT's lasers and blasters with light turbolasers, easily capable of defeating many highly protected defensive weapons emplacements.
During the reborn Emperor Palpatine's insurgency in a clone body from 10 ABY to 11 ABY, the Empire developed a new variant of the AT-AT that was equipped with the most powerful Imperial turbolasers and the new X-80 power cells. These were deployed during an attack on New Alderaan. During the battle, they vaporized many buildings, gun emplacements, and starfighters.[21]
They can be made small enough to fit on an AT-AT's head; that's plenty small to fit on Slave I.
and yo! new edit: They can be made small enough to be handheld weapons:
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