Author Topic: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread
Darth-Ghost  5690 posts
Registered: Oct '03
48129_Anakin Skywalker (42109)
Date Posted: 7/3 12:38am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 7/3 12:47am (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth-Ghost
Havac posted:
The Evil Thingy In The Maw can be the main threat without the Lost Tribe being a red herring. Perhaps the Lost Tribe join the Jedi in fighting the Evil Thingy. Perhaps they're both equal-level threats, with two major threats confronting the heroes at once. Perhaps the Evil Thingy is the main threat, but the Lost Tribe plays a major supporting role, along the lines of Alema in LOTF. Perhaps the Evil Thingy is the main threat for the first half, and the Lost Tribe the main threat for the second half. Perhaps the Lost Tribe allies with the Evil Thingy, and they become one threat. I wouldn't go so far as to say the Lost Tribe is a great big red herring just because the Evil Thingy (hypothetically) gets top villain billing.


We really need a name for the Evil Thingy. tongue I don't want to get my hopes up about the Abominor being the Evil Thingy, and the Celestials being the Silentium, but it would be so damn cool! (It would explain the Fizz in the Dark Nest books)

But yeah, I am expecting/hoping that the Lost Tribe eventually allies with the Jedi (perhaps in FOTJ#5, ALLIES?) to help defeat the Evil Thingy. It would be cool to see the other Force Cultures, like the Aang-Tii, Baran Do, Fallanasi, Dathomir Witches, etc., all joining forces in battle too. Maybe even seeing the One Sith help them out, from behind the scenes. Maybe even see the Yuuzhan Vong re-enter the stage to help.



My list of things to explore after LOTF were:
-Ancient Powers (Celestials/Architects, Sharu, Gree, Columi, Kwa, Killiks, Rakatans)
-Unknown Regions (Chiss, Vagaari, whatever else is in there!)
-Other Force Cultures (especially the Aang-Tii)
-Jacen Solo's 5-Year Journey
-more Yuuzhan Vong
-the Silentium-Abominor conflict
-past Sith wars in more detail
-more Force Ghosts
-more of the droids
-the mystery of Vergere (and Lumiya)
-the Anzati
-survival of the Confederation in some form


So many of my wishes are in FOTJ already, it would be so cool if some more got in!

Zorrixor posted:
I'm expecting the Maw threat to be the main one too, yeah. What amazes me is that they'd pay JJM just to write a free tie-in purely about a red-herring, but maybe the Lost Tribe will acutally end up having more to do with Crosscurrent or something? I can understand Precipice has probably helped FOTJ snare some extra interest, even if it is a red-herring, but it still just strikes me as an expensive red-herring.

As far as the Mind Drinkers go... didn't the blurb say they had become some kind of outer body spirits? That would make me think they're not Anzati... but I suppose it's possible they are Anzati who have reached a new level or something. I'm expecting an all new race though, tbh.

As for the Abominor idea... I like that. Maybe trapped inside the Maw is the Beast Planet:

tongue

The Celestials being the Silentium could be rather neat too. I was reading their wiki page the other day, and noticed how they were rumoured to have been behind the creation of the Sharu a long, long (999,999 BBY or something?) time ago. That puts the Vong-Machine war one seriously long time ago. It'd be nice though if they did indeed turn out to be a race we already "know" but "don't know", if you get my meaning. The Silentium are an enigma that I've long wanted explored.

But... I really, really like Dan Wallace's suggestion that they're not the nice guys they make themselves out to be, but kind of "the cosmic overlords who think they know best". So, if they do bring the Silentium into things, then while I totally think having something about them pretending to be the "good guys" and working with the Galaxy to stop the Abominor; I think it'd then be good as a set up for a backstabbing by the Silentium in the subsequent series (something along the lines of: the mortal races have proven they cannot be trusted by naively having awoken the Abominor after all this time).

Wait, having just written "cosmic overlords"... Celestials? I'm in. mischief tongue

I also very much like your suggestion of Denning returning to Raynar and having him spill the beans of what he learnt from his time in the Colony. thinking


I'm sure the Lost Tribe will be very important addition, just not the main threat. They are a distraction fro mthe true enemy, but will still have a major role to play. Have we ever seen the story of the redemption of an entire planet populated by born-Sith, or any single born-Sith being redeemed?

Yeah, the Mind Drinkers seem to have a technique similar to Force-Ghosting. Maybe it's not the Anzati, but it sure does sound similar to them.

Maybe they are related to the ageless race that could predict the future, mentioned in MILLENNIUM FALCON?

Or maybe they are the Sorcerors of Rhand, mentioned in SHADOWS OF MINDOR?

The Celestials/Silentium actually being worse than the Abominor/Maw-Evil-Thingy would be a good twist too.



Darth-Ghost posted:
Time to start the speculation on ABYSS by Troy Denning, due out on August 18!

(The next book, BACKLASH by Aaron Allston, won't come out until January.)


Front Cover: Leia Solo


Back Cover: Ghost of Mara Skywalker





Back Cover Blurb:
Peace is the way of the Jedi.
But with deadly enemies
on every side, war may
be the only way out.






Luke and Ben Skywalker arrive in the mysterious part of space called The Maw in search of more clues as to what caused Jacen Solo's downfall into the dark side. But they are not the only ones exploring The Maw: a Sith Master and her apprentice arrive there, too, having followed the delinquent ancient Sith ship found by Ben in The Legacy of the Force - and they're thrilled to find Luke there, because they are determined to kill him. But there's another powerful being hiding in The Maw. It's enormously strong, purely evil, and it has its own plans for Luke Skywalker...





Tensions are heightening across the galaxy as more Jedi Knights seemingly go insane and anti-Jedi sentiment, fed by fear and mistrust, spreads from world to world. Han and Leia Solo have their hands full helping the Jedi Order keep the affected Knights out of the grip of government security—whose only solution is to freeze the offenders in carbonite.

Meanwhile, Luke Skywalker and his son, Ben, arrive in the mysterious part of space called the Maw, in search of more clues to whatever it was that caused Jacen Solo's fall to the dark side. It is here, in the Maw, that they will confront the members of a lost Sith tribe who are determined to kill Luke. And it is here, too, where Ben will meet the Force ghost of his dead mother, Mara Jade.








Following a trail of clues across the galaxy, Luke Skywalker continues his quest to find the reasons behind Jacen Solo’s dark downfall and to win redemption for the Jedi Order. Sojourning among the mysterious Aing-Tii monks has left Luke and his son Ben with no real answers, only the suspicion that the revelations they seek lie in the forbidden reaches of the distant Maw Cluster. There, hidden from the galaxy in a labyrinth of black holes, dwell the Mind Walkers: those whose power to transcend their bodies and be one with the Force is as seductive and intoxicating as it is potentially fatal. But it may be Luke’s only path to the truth.

Meanwhile, on Coruscant, the war of wills between Galactic Alliance Chief of State Natasi Daala and the Jedi Order is escalating. Outraged over the carbonite freezing of young Jedi Knights Valin and Jysella Horn after their inexplicable mental breakdowns, the Jedi are determined to defy Daala’s martial tactics, override Council Master Kenth Hamner’s wavering leadership, and deal on their own terms with the epidemic of madness preying on their ranks. As Han and Leia Solo, along with their daughter Jaina, join the fight to protect more stricken Knights from arrest, Jedi healers race to find a cure for the rapidly spreading affliction. But none of them realize the blaster barrel is already swinging in their direction–and Chief Daala is about to pull the trigger.

Nor do Luke and Ben, deep in the Maw Cluster and pushing their Force abilities beyond known limits, realize how close they are–to the Sith strike squad bent on exterminating the Skywalkers, to a nexus of dark–side energy unprecedented in its power and its hunger, and to an explosive confrontation between opposing wielders of the Force from which only one Master–good or evil–can emerge alive.







Original FOTJ series preview:

In this new era, Luke Skywalker finds himself battling control of the very order he founded. After Jacen's fall to the dark side, much of the galaxy sees Jedi Knights as rogue soldiers too dangerous and unstable to leave unfettered. It is a view shared by Chief Daala, who has sworn to bring the order under government control--or disband it entirely.

But the greatest threat to the Jedi remains unseen, a faceless menace even more lethal and insidious than the Sith who have plagued the Jedi for millennia. Awakened by Jacen Solo during his five-year odyssey, this hidden peril is reaching out from the darkest corner of the galaxy, assaulting Jedi Knights in ways that even Luke has yet to perceive--but which he must quickly thwart if he is to have any hope of redeeming the New Jedi Order.














Speculation time:


ABYSS reminds me of "Byss," with Palpatine in DARK EMPIRE.

I think both the Lost Tribe of the Sith and the Mind-Walkers are red herrings, there is something else in there.

Could these Mind-Walkers be the Anzati?

The real question is: does Daala know? She was in the Maw for years too, developing very-advanced superweapons, and she emerged in the was against Darth Caedus with the "Maw Irregular Fleet."

These Force-crazed Jedi were there in the Maw too, during the Yuuzhan Vong Invasion.

Ben is presumed to be safe, because he withdrew from the Force, but you never know.

What did Jacen know about it, how did he "awaken" it? What does it want with Allana?

With Raynar Thul having been spared by Luke and in the Jedi Temple, and the Killiks claiming they helped build the Maw... could he have some information on the Celestials or the true purpose of the Maw?

Will we find out what the nanotechnological "Fizz" was?

Were the energy bogeys on Kessel working for the Celestials?

Could the evil being hidden in the Maw have been trapped there by the Celestials, and have been freed after the destruction of Centerpoint Station?

The Tribe are called the 'Protectors' by the Keshri, and the Jedi are called the 'Protectors' by the Killiks. Will Jedi and Sith, along with the Aang-Tii and Baran Do (and possibly other Force cultures), have to join forces to defeat this threat?

Is this the same mysterious presence linked to Tython, hinted at in the previews to upcoming THE OLD REPUBLIC game?

Is this the same threat linked to the book CROSSCURRENT, going back to the Great Hyperspace War with Naga Sadow?

Will it be connected to the the untitled NOMI SUNRIDER novel, which takes place between the Great Sith War with Exar Kun and the Mandalorian Wars?

Is this threat responsible for the de-evolution and decay of the Kwa, Sharu, Killiks, Rakatans, Gree, Columi, and other powers of the Pre-Republic Era? Could the Celestials/Architects have contained it in the Maw, being responsible for letting the Republic not face the same threat for 25,000o years?

Could the Celestials be the Silentium, and the threat in the Maw be the Abominors?


Also, where was Lumiya between BETRAYAL and her last appearance in Marvel Comics?

Both Lumiya and Daala were missing Imperials, presumed dead for years. Lumiya starts a war. Daala comes out as ultimate winner of the war. Lumiya hinted that a plot would be continued, even if she died, and she was not talking about the One Sith.

Could Vergere have sensed something was amiss with the Maw when she returned, and visited during that "missing year"?

 

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Zorrixor  4299 posts
Registered: Sep '04
42757_Prince Xizor
Date Posted: 7/3 12:50am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 7/3 12:54am (2 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
Hmm... Allies... the Lost Tribe? That actually might work. It would fit what seems to be the constantly abandoned idea that they keep floating around but never doing (e.g. the original TFU ideas, the constant teasing in TOR of "Can Light and Dark co-exist?", and so on).

If TOR does end up doing what I'm expecting ("The Emperor is everybody's threat"), then the Lost Tribe could be a nice bit of foreshadowing... or fore-future-shadowing... or whatever you'd call that. tongue

I predict the Circle of Lords to be evil...but you may be onto something that the bulk of the lower castes will be fairly ordinary. Not "light" by any means, but perhaps no more "dark" than the Jensaarai when they were discovered. If we get something like the Circle of Lords allying with the Evil Thingy in an "Make us Gods and you can eat our minions!" situation, then having the rest of the Lost Tribe redeemed en masse could be pretty novel.

And... Yuuzhan Vong help too? If it does end up being the Abominor... then yes, yes, yes, and yes again. Seeing the Vong revenge on the accursed machines of their nightmares? Oh kriff yes! grin

I'd totally forgotten about that original FOTJ solicitation (in... was it SoM?) that said the threat Jacen awoke was a threat to the Force itself. Now, so far a few Jedi just going crazy is hardly a threat to the Force itself... but something that wanted to kill everybody would fit that bill. And usually killing everybody doesn't exactly work when it'd mean Mr. Evil Thingy killing himself too...

...but when Mr. Evil Thingy is an evil race of machines? Yeah... killing all life becomes a genuine possibility. mischief whistling

If this does happen though... I can hear the "Mass Effect rip-off!" and "Salvation rip-off!" whiners already though. plain

Especially consdering the Silentium being the Celestials would mean robots had been behind everything in history. But, hey, if it works for Mass Effect... tongue

 

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Liliedhe  482 posts
Registered: Feb '09
14356_Depa Billaba
Date Posted: 7/3 12:51am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread
I read the VIP thread over on the starwars.com forums and some of Sue Rostoni's comments on Blood Oath got me thinking - that because of Zekk's involvement in FOTJ the publication of the book can't be delayed indefinitely...

Originally, Blood Oath would have been published around the time of Outcast. So it got me thinking: Maybe Omen was so short because a plot had to be cut out? Maybe a plot with Zekk as an important character? Maybe about Hapes, and the hinted at tension with the Imperials... Just a little conspiracy theory^^.

 

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Zorrixor  4299 posts
Registered: Sep '04
42757_Prince Xizor
Date Posted: 7/3 2:16am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 7/3 2:18am (2 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
Plot cut out? Hmm... while it seems unlikely that would happen so late in a book's release window, it would certainly help explain the length.

Anyway: another though about the Lost Tribe and it "maybe not being so evil". Thinking about the way it is organised, you've got the Circle of Lords, who seem to be the unseen figures who the lower castes fear, and then you've got the lower castes themselves, who seem pretty normal.

That, in a rather ironic way, is in fact a parallel of the original Sith Empire itself. If the original crew of the Omen were meant to be moderately "normal", then what has happened is as their numbers regrew history repeated itself; the Sith Empire grew up again, with the Sith Lords on the top, and the meaningless armies of minions on the bottom.

If so, then the idea that only the Circle of Lords are the truly evil "Naga Sadow" ones definitely seems feasible, and Vestara and all the rest of the ordinary plebs no more the "cackling evil guys" than most of the original crew.

 

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T-boy-wan  621 posts
Registered: Jun '06
Date Posted: 7/3 2:19am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread
Oh, its totally Waru in the maw tongue He had plans for Luke in Crystal Star.

 

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Darth-Ghost  5690 posts
Registered: Oct '03
48129_Anakin Skywalker (42109)
Date Posted: 7/3 2:24am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread
Aren't the Charon of <<Otherspace>> mentioned in OMEN?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Charon

 

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Zorrixor  4299 posts
Registered: Sep '04
42757_Prince Xizor
Date Posted: 7/3 2:26am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 7/3 2:30am (2 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
I think Waru is why I actually really like the Abominor idea. For some reason, I find the idea of a superpowered organic lifeform appearing out of nowhere silly; but I don't have that problem with an imprisoned sentient doomsday machine.

I guess it's just because the supreme organic story has been done, whereas the machine story has--thus far--barely been touched in Star Wars. To just discover this big Force monster just sounds too Waru-like to take its seriously, I guess. Evil machines also seem to be the "in thing" right now for sci-fi stories. tongue

Kinda like how when the Vong first came out the "in thing" was more biotech and freaky alien species with weird looking organic ships. I assume a lot of that stemmed from Babylon 5.

EDIT: THEY MENTIONED THE CHARON?! shock praying

OMG. I thought everyone had forgotten about the Charon. I've been looking at them for years thinking "Once they get done with the Vong, then the machines, then they can finally get to the main course: the organic biotech arachnids who also use machines."

Seriously, I've always felt that if the Vong are Act I, and the Silentium Act II, then the third and final Act III should definitely be the Charon as the apocalyptic locust plague and harbingers of Armageddon. tongue

 

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Darth-Ghost  5690 posts
Registered: Oct '03
48129_Anakin Skywalker (42109)
Date Posted: 7/3 2:33am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 7/3 2:35am (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth-Ghost
I haven't read the book yet, all 4 copies at my library are already taken out, but someone mentioned it in the thread.

As much as people hate Waru, I would love for him to be retconned into being related to some other menace, in a way that makes sense out of CRYSTAL STAR (if that's possible). tongue

 

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Havac  14250 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 7/3 1:36pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread
The Charon are never mentioned.

 

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Daala  397 posts
Registered: Apr '99
46149_Inara Serra
Date Posted: 7/3 2:22pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread
And after the Killiks I have had my fill of Bug Problems. Han would totally agree.

 

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DarthIktomi  1380 posts
Registered: May '09
19073_Luke and Mara Family
Date Posted: 7/3 5:24pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread
Darth-Ghost posted:
As much as people hate Waru, I would love for him to be retconned into being related to some other menace, in a way that makes sense out of CRYSTAL STAR (if that's possible). tongue

Actually, I can:

The Crystal Star never happened. It was a psychological weapon designed by the Empire to make New Republic authorities' heads explode.

 

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Valin__Kenobi  1013 posts
Title: Author:
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji

Registered: Mar '04
48742_General Grievous (63009)
Date Posted: 7/16 1:43am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 7/16 1:48am (3 edits total) Edited By: Valin__Kenobi
Zor, I hate reading your posts in this thread because they just get my hopes up for all kinds of amazing things that will never come to pass. frustrated tongue

Although I did want to single out one part for extra awesomeness:

Zorrixor posted:
But... I really, really like Dan Wallace's suggestion that they're not the nice guys they make themselves out to be, but kind of "the cosmic overlords who think they know best". So, if they do bring the Silentium into things, then while I totally think having something about them pretending to be the "good guys" and working with the Galaxy to stop the Abominor; I think it'd then be good as a set up for a backstabbing by the Silentium in the subsequent series (something along the lines of: the mortal races have proven they cannot be trusted by naively having awoken the Abominor after all this time).


Vorlons/Shadows, anyone?

whistling



Similarly, I'd kill for a series featuring the "Centerpoint aliens" coming back out of the Maw to try to lord it over the "primitive" peoples of the galaxy again, after tens of millennia in hibernation. Maybe bring the Silentium back from the Rim to deal with them.

(I hope the Celestials, Architects, Silentium, Rakata, etc. don't ALL get retconned into the same race, since there's plenty of room, literally billions of years, in that era for a bunch of mysterious, near-godlike species mucking around the prehistoric galaxy.)

 

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Zorrixor  4299 posts
Registered: Sep '04
42757_Prince Xizor
Date Posted: 7/16 4:17am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 7/16 4:20am (2 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
Yeah, the whole Vorlon/Shadow conflict is what I've always loved about the Vong/Silentium+Abominor divide. Sure, the Vorlons and Shadows are both basically "biotech", but they're still idealogically opposed in many, many ways. And, much like the Silentium (going by Dan Wallace, at least), the Vorlons also are the "good guys" who are actually not all that good after you really get to know them. They're more the cosmic king makers who insist on poking their over-advanced oars in and interfering because "they know best".

Totally weird thought I had the other day... has anyone ever considered how Zonama Sekot is a very bizarre combination of not only super advanced biotech, but also mega advanced technology as well? I mean... a flying planet? That's way beyond anything we've seen, not counting fully mechanical constructions like the Star Forge and Death Star. The closest I can think are perhaps Hethrir's worldcrafts, but even they I always felt were more like "miniature planets".

But... a fully flying planet!? From a certain point of view, that is melding of the Vong biotech we're familiar with, and the super advanced technology we've been hinted at with the Silentium and Abominor. Which is rather interesting in the way it suggests Zonama Sekot has potentially returned to the technological state from pre-organic vs. machine war, which may in fact mean the new generation of Zonama Sekotian Vong could be super advanced in both fields.



Imagine that being Zonama Sekot flying behind Coruscant then tell me the true Yuuzhan'tar doesn't have both uber biotech and uber regular tech... tongue

 

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Ulicus  7359 posts
Registered: Jul '05
41990_Duron Qel-Droma
Date Posted: 7/16 5:51am Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread
Zorrixor posted:
I think Waru is why I actually really like the Abominor idea. For some reason, I find the idea of a superpowered organic lifeform appearing out of nowhere silly; but I don't have that problem with an imprisoned sentient doomsday machine.

I guess it's just because the supreme organic story has been done, whereas the machine story has--thus far--barely been touched in Star Wars. To just discover this big Force monster just sounds too Waru-like to take its seriously, I guess. Evil machines also seem to be the "in thing" right now for sci-fi stories. tongue

I'd actually like for it to be Waru. There would be no greater success than transforming something considered a joke into the greatest threat the galaxy had ever known.

Though at this point I'm more convinced than ever that Waru is some Otherspace dwelling Aing-Ti.

I guess it could just be the Snarl.

 

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GoA  335 posts
Registered: Dec '07
41206_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 7/16 12:41pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi (9 Hardcover Series) General Discussion Thread
Has it been confirmed that's Mara Jade Skywalker on the back of Abyss? Not a more current, mid-thirties Jaina?

 

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