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Topic:
The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
7/16 11:40pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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TalonCard posted:
There's always the Dooku clone fight...
TC
Why can't that just be a video game?
I mean, why did someone even have to say; "Oh, that's a clone!"
Why can't we all just go; well, yeah, that's a video game, and you kill the boss in a video game...and then we just move on with our lives and if anyone wants to reference New Droid Army (was that the real title? what was this even on?), then just pretend the last bit didn't happen.
Or something.
I think someone else already said in this thread that they'd hate it if they ran around making retcons to the retcons, and I have to agree...why can't we just, you know, treat it as fiction?
(apologies, this probably belongs more in the general thread, but I wanted to reply to this post instead of dragging it over there)
I get that the scar is a problem because of depictions...but why not just ignore New Droid Army? Why even worry about Clone Dooku? Were the events in the game essential to other EU stories or something?
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/16 11:51pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
7/17 12:08am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
sabarte
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Yeah, I think that was the continuity people being silly and changing their minds too late - but they apparently put information on it in authorland somewhere obvious enough that new author Sean Stewart picked up on it independently from the normal continuity-fixers, and nobody bothered to change it in the Dark Rendezvous draft.
I guess because even silly gameboy games have big sales?
I don't think even the continuity diehards would have minded if New Droid Army was classed with Yoda Stories in notreallycanonland. This really is a case of "it's canon because the powers that be said so".
Games and television get a lot of continuity slack, while the comics and WOTC are apparently on a very tight leash. I think novels are somewhere inbetween.
The rest of the plot of NDA wasn't actually terrible. But that they let the ending through and then said it was canon was just bizarre, especially since the creators said they asked and then got a confirmation.
The Jedi Alliance game looks more than a little like it...especially with the Nightsisters...somewhat worrisome.
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/17 12:16am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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New Droid Army has one of my favorite retcons, though...while the Jedi Masters are distracted fighting cortosis droids in the Coruscant underlevels, Dooku and a minion slip into the Jedi Archives, where they're confronted by Anakin. Dooku tells Anakin he's going to destroy the Jedi Archives. Anakin has some 'You fiend!'-like dialogue, and then fights the minion while Dooku slips off deeper into the Archives.
The retcon is that Dooku was actually after some holocrons, and evidently was just messing with Anakin's head with the whole destroying the Archives deal. Which makes the whole thing a little more fun.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/17 6:50am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Sinrebirth posted:
rhonderoo posted:
I'm just going by the hype right before ROTS (Anakin's scar) and Lucas saying he was going to leave it up to EU to explain it when asked in an interview. Then we get the tidy story in a comic and everything's gold. I guess I just don't see the need to purposely get away from it, when like you say, Patch...it's just a scar. Why have it in the movie?
Bacta heals it later, or he has it fixed as he's a vain person. It's probable.
 And then he gets another, identical scar just in time for ROTS?
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HedecGa
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
7/17 7:30am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Ooh-ooh, maybe the scar is symbolic of Anakin's fate. You know, like no matter how many times he gets it healed, it keeps getting re-opened. He is forever "marked"! Any takers? Anyone?
No?
Yeah, me neither.  Just trying to make the best out of a possibly bad situation 
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Darth_Monopoly
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
7/17 7:40am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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HedecGa posted:
Ooh-ooh, maybe the scar is symbolic of Anakin's fate. You know, like no matter how many times he gets it healed, it keeps getting re-opened. He is forever "marked"! Any takers? Anyone?
No?
Yeah, me neither. Just trying to make the best out of a possibly bad situation
Push come to shove, I'd take that for a retcon over some of these other suggestions.
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rhonderoo
Title:
Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:29am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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I'm certainly not saying it's the end of the world that he has a scar, and it won't affect my enjoyment of the movie (and certainly not this novel, as it isn't Karen giving him a scar...). It's just one of those things that irritates me about George (or whoever in LFL) when we do stuff like change something relatively minor just for the "coolness" factor. I understand retcons and story changes for things that need to be changed, but this is one of those "Oooh! Let's give him a scar. He has one in ROTS, remember? How cool would that be?"
Eh, maybe it'll make him more cooler to the kids. *shrug*
But it's things like this that start to unravel a lot of the continuity that they've worked hard on keeping the past 10 - 15 years. But what can they do? It's his sandbox, I guess.
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DT421  And the hot chick is really the sister of the good guy, but they don't know it, and they kiss. Which is kind of messed up. I mean, what if they had done it instead of just kissed?
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
7/17 9:52am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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rhonderoo posted:
But it's things like this that start to unravel a lot of the continuity that they've worked hard on keeping the past 10 - 15 years. But what can they do? It's his sandbox, I guess.
The only thing that confuses me is that I thought one of the reasons people were so excited about this project was because the project leads had announced they were taking stuff from the EU and intent on working it into the whole tapestry.
This is where I disagree with Traviss strongly, though I do understand her point (and in this case she is just running with what the cartoon created), because while the scar isn't THAT huge of an idea, the timing of the series does basically shut down a lot of stories and alters a lot of stuff, and while I know people are hoping that "Okay, but they're going to make this fit and respect the EU right after THIS!", I can't see them suddenly shifting gears after already making such a drastic change.
It's also one of the reasons I'm not concerned about Traviss altering things for her novel, if that's what she feels she has to do to make it a "mature" title, because it's clear that the boundries have broken down, imo.
How much this will embolden others to change things...I don't know, and the other thing, of course, is the question of whether LFL will keep the current canon policy, add some sort of "pillar" policy along with it, or go another route.
I do think it's rather hard to argue for a singular inclusionist contintuity at this point though, but it does make me wonder why they banged the drum of loving the EU so much at the beginning when things were changed so much. It would have seemed simpler just to tell people that they'd be using things from the EU, but that it'd be altered.
Hell, I'm actually all for placing T-Canon below C-canon, truth be told.
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Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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TalonCard
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
7/17 11:13am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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patchworkz7 posted:
I get that the scar is a problem because of depictions...but why not just ignore New Droid Army? Why even worry about Clone Dooku? Were the events in the game essential to other EU stories or something?
We're complaining that they're ignoring previously established EU but hoping another part of the EU is ignored because we see it as silly and needlessly complicating? 
New Droid Army has actually been worked into the continuity fairly well, with the capture of Wat Tambor being referenced in HoloNet News and the Boba Fett series, the corotosis droids given a bigger backstory in The New Essential Guide to Droids, the Coruscant invasion being tied into General Mohc's (of Darktrooper fame) backstory, and even Anakin's bizzare defeat of Dooku at the end being worked into one of the novels as Sidious messing with Dooku's head. Not bad for a Gameboy game...
TC
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/17 11:35am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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actually, Dark Rendezvous just implied Dooku was unaware of the whole thing and it was a clone. Which makes much less sense than the alternate retcon that's been buzzing around the more continuity-happy side of canon. It's quite possible, of course, that Anakin killed some "version" of Dooku twice, in which case both retcons work. If Jedi Alliance does it again, I think that'll be pulled out of the hat. :P
The Dooku that raided the Temple has been established as being the real thing, though.
I guess I just disagree with making "clones" to kill characters randomly without killing them.
If you don't explore the implications it's just sort of gratuitous - like Zahn's Luuke.
Patch, you and Traviss seem to have some bizarre view of canon - that it's fragile enough that one contradiction destroys the whole thing and then you might as well change everything. That's not the case. It's resilient in a good way - which doesn't mean one should stick knives in it because they can! Certain parts of canon people accept mostly in a tongue-in-cheek way.
This is why I'd rather have someone who'd go out of his way to try and make things consistent with the existing Clone Wars, like Luceno, on the job here rather than Traviss.
Taking a very long term view, eventually Clone Wars and everything associated will be like the kid TV tie-ins from the 80s that people laugh at Wookieepedians for documenting.
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/17 11:40am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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TalonCard posted:
We're complaining that they're ignoring previously established EU but hoping another part of the EU is ignored because we see it as silly and needlessly complicating?
Thing is - I think it was originally envisioned as non-EU (at least the whole killing Dooku thing), and was made EU retrospectively for some reason. Which is just a bizarre way of going about things any way you look at it.
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/17 11:49am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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patchworkz7 posted:
The only thing that confuses me is that I thought one of the reasons people were so excited about this project was because the project leads had announced they were taking stuff from the EU and intent on working it into the whole tapestry.
Well, Filoni and one of the others are apparently familiar/approving of the EU continuity - but Lucas took a much bigger role than what was expected in the beginning, rarely a good thing for C-Canon.
I kind of hope he gets distracted by the live action series sooner rather than later.
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whiskers
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
7/17 12:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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sabarte posted:
patchworkz7 posted:
The only thing that confuses me is that I thought one of the reasons people were so excited about this project was because the project leads had announced they were taking stuff from the EU and intent on working it into the whole tapestry.
Well, Filoni and one of the others are apparently familiar/approving of the EU continuity - but Lucas took a much bigger role than what was expected in the beginning, rarely a good thing for C-Canon.
I kind of hope he gets distracted by the live action series sooner rather than later.
Then we'll just complain about the potential for continuity mistakes in that. 
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Rogue_Follower
Title: Manager: Literature
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
7/17 1:55pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Yeah, be careful what you wish for.
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/17 4:06pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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I guess I just don't care as much about that time period
Seriously, they've been careful not to do too much there, so there's much more of an actual blank slate...though yeah, continuity trouble will ensue.
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