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Topic:
The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
7/17 4:25pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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sabarte posted:
patchworkz7 posted:
The only thing that confuses me is that I thought one of the reasons people were so excited about this project was because the project leads had announced they were taking stuff from the EU and intent on working it into the whole tapestry.
Well, Filoni and one of the others are apparently familiar/approving of the EU continuity - but Lucas took a much bigger role than what was expected in the beginning, rarely a good thing for C-Canon.
I kind of hope he gets distracted by the live action series sooner rather than later.
Ahhh...see, it was the "bigger role for Lucas" in all this that was the missing puzzle piece for me. I hadn't realize his role had expanded.
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Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/17 5:13pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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In the flash monstrosity of the Clone Wars site, under movies and then crew, there's a bit on Dave Filoni where he's pretty much a total fanboy as usual, a piece on how Lucas got more and more involved, and Catherine Winder (the producer) on what kids will get out of the movie/series.
The official blog has more Clone Wars people gleefully fanboying. Of course, some of that may be PR for the con audience...
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
7/18 12:37am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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sabarte posted:
Patch, you and Traviss seem to have some bizarre view of canon - that it's fragile enough that one contradiction destroys the whole thing and then you might as well change everything. That's not the case. It's resilient in a good way - which doesn't mean one should stick knives in it because they can! Certain parts of canon people accept mostly in a tongue-in-cheek way.
Uhh...actually, our opinion is the exact opposite, although mine less so than her's.
It's like Spider-Man; as long as we end up with Uncle Ben dead by a mistake Peter makes and "With Great Power..." and all that, the details are near meaningless. A scar's timing doesn't matter to the SW story. It doesn't essentially change who the characters are. An Anakin who suddenly writes off his dreams of Padme's death as stress and not prophecy would be counter to the eventual arc. An Anakin who accepts his mother's death as part of the natural order of things and doesn't rail against the universe for it and murder Tuskens is counter to the canon, but dialogue, some events, whether a ship entered service in 20BBY or 19BBY...not so much.
We're arguing that canon is more than resiliant enough to take even the overwriting of itself and preserve the essential story that is SW. No different than Han shooting first or Han meeting Jabba in the hanger deck.
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Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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rhonderoo
Title: Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
7/18 8:19am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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patchworkz7 posted:
We're arguing that canon is more than resiliant enough to take even the overwriting of itself and preserve the essential story that is SW. No different than Han shooting first or Han meeting Jabba in the hanger deck.
...move away quietly.
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DT421 And the hot chick is really the sister of the good guy, but they don't know it, and they kiss. Which is kind of messed up. I mean, what if they had done it instead of just kissed?
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
7/18 10:40am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
7/18 11:00am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ulicus
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Patch, I don't think what you're talking about in regards to Spider-Man and the "meaingless details" is the same thing as canon. There's a big difference between keeping canon consistant and "preseving the essential story".
One can argue (as you seem to be) that canon isn't the be-all and end-all as long as the essential story is preserved, and one can argue that canon *is* the be-all and end-all regardless of whether or the essential story is concerned.
You can't say, however, that a sufficient condition for canon remaining intact is the preservation of the essential story. That's a necessary condition only.
You're talking about.. I dunno, I'd call it the "mythos".
Path of Destruction, to use it as an example again, remained reasonably true to the "mythos" laid down by JvS. It didn't, however, remain true to the canon/continuity laid down by JvS (in some places, that is).
Ultimate Spider-Man adheres to the Spider-Man mythos (bitten by a spider with a special quality, Uncle Ben dies, yada yada), but it doesn't adhere to the (616) Spider-Man canon. It's its own Canon.
Details aren't meaningless to continuity and canon, because that's what they're made up of.
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TalonCard
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
7/18 11:25am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Very true. The perpetuation of the "multiverses" in comics indicates that even in the more flexible world of comic book continuity there are quite a few "Bus Timetable Readers".
Ulicus posted: Path of Destruction, to use it as an example again, remained reasonably true to the "mythos" laid down by JvS. It didn't, however, remain true to the canon/continuity laid down by JvS (in some places, that is).
Of course, JvS did the same thing to the Jedi Knight graphic novel, which did the same thing to the Jedi Knight game. The mythos is consistant in the novel, the graphic novel, the comic, and the video game, but the exact details aren't. Annoying, but not the end of the world...and not something that Drew started either.
TC
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Death Star Guide: http://deathstar.njoe.com/Contents.htm GODV Guide: www.myuselessknowledge.com/swfa/main.html Hyperspace Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/taloncard jawajames...I'll let you know...
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
7/18 11:27am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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TC posted:
Of course, JvS did the same thing to the Jedi Knight graphic novel, which did the same thing to the Jedi Knight game. The mythos is consistant in the novel, the graphic novel, the comic, and the video game, but the exact details aren't. Annoying, but not the end of the world...and not something that Drew started either.
Heh... yeah. I'm actually still a little peeved that it turns out the VotJ has more trapped Sith spirits than Jedi.
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
7/18 11:47am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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rhonderoo posted:
patchworkz7 posted:
We're arguing that canon is more than resiliant enough to take even the overwriting of itself and preserve the essential story that is SW. No different than Han shooting first or Han meeting Jabba in the hanger deck.
...move away quietly.
I know, I know....it doesn't help that I was writing late night...and right now I'm sans coffee and scrambling to head to work, so I'm not about to attempt to defend the idea any further at the moment.
I DO honestly think canon is an amazingly strong concept that can survive a lot of hits, although maybe "thematic story arc" or something is a more honest description of what I'm talking about.
And apologies to Ulicus, I started reading your post and you make a lot of sense, and if I didn't have to be out the door in five I'd adress it right now, but essentially you're right and I didn't present my views well. Cheers, mate.
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Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
7/18 11:48am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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TalonCard posted: Very true. The perpetuation of the "multiverses" in comics indicates that even in the more flexible world of comic book continuity there are quite a few "Bus Timetable Readers".
Ulicus posted: Path of Destruction, to use it as an example again, remained reasonably true to the "mythos" laid down by JvS. It didn't, however, remain true to the canon/continuity laid down by JvS (in some places, that is).
Of course, JvS did the same thing to the Jedi Knight graphic novel, which did the same thing to the Jedi Knight game. The mythos is consistant in the novel, the graphic novel, the comic, and the video game, but the exact details aren't. Annoying, but not the end of the world...and not something that Drew started either.
TC
THanks, TC, I didn't actually know that about the issue with JK's GN and JvS.
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Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/18 12:16pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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My opinion of comic continuity is created to allow authors to do infinite reimaginings of characters without any consistency. Adam West Batman and Christian Bale Batman have the same broad details of an origin story. Are they the "same character"? IMHO no. A character is more than a name.
What comic continuity involves is an unwillingness for authors and those in charge of a franchise to take responsibility for what they do to characters. It's just not mature storytelling.
For a franchise to pull off loose continuity, it needs to be constantly hitting the reset button. Leaving characters exactly as they found them (That can be done either quietly and graciously, or obnoxiously).
If the only thing that matters is the themes of the origin story, everything else is just fanfic, including all past, present, and future tie-in works. Once the author leaves, their work won't have any consequence. Spiderman eventually always circles back around to a guy living with his aunt and trying to make ends meet because he just isn't allowed to grow as a character without being jerked back to someone else's "reimagining". So there ends up not being a "real Spiderman" as a character, just some mangled mess.
I could do without Luke Skywalker making a deal with the ghost of Darth Sidious to bring Aunt Beru back to life by erasing everyone's memory that he was ever married to Mara Jade.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/18 2:42pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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That would make one hell of a book.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/18 3:39pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
7/18 3:40pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
sabarte
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I think the Spider-Man plotline I'm referencing was actually even sillier than that, but that's the gist that came across when I read about it.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
7/18 6:31pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
7/18 6:31pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
dizfactor
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sabarte posted: My opinion of comic continuity is created to allow authors to do infinite reimaginings of characters without any consistency.
That's not really entirely accurate, but...
sabarte posted: What comic continuity involves is an unwillingness for authors and those in charge of a franchise to take responsibility for what they do to characters. It's just not mature storytelling.
On the contrary, it's arguably more mature and sophisticated storytelling. It adds a whole level of complex metatextual play which is largely absent in the more pedestrian, linear, and literal world of SW EU.
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"Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century." Julian Dibbell "You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat." Gryph
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ZanderSolo
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
7/18 6:36pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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So does anyone have this book yet? Is it any good?
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Make a move and ill stab your jugular. I dont have a jugular. Then ill keep stabbing you until i find someplace that bleeds copiously.
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/18 6:38pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
7/18 6:39pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
sabarte
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dizfactor posted:
On the contrary, it's arguably more mature and sophisticated storytelling. It adds a whole level of complex metatextual play which is largely absent in the more pedestrian, linear, and literal world of SW EU.
Diz, we know what happens when Star Wars writers abandon continuity and canon. We get white-suited Vader and Yoda crashing the Death Star into Coruscant, not any sort of "complex metatextual play".
That's pretty much what happens when comic books abandon canon too.
I wouldn't be offended by novels that are Infinities - "Ultimate Star Wars", as it were. But let's face it, they'd probably suck :P
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