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Topic:
The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Rogue_Follower
Title: Manager: Literature
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
7/7 8:35pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Just to get this out there early: no author bashing, no personal comments.
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Master-Chief-Kenobi
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
7/8 3:34am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Jedipete33 posted:
CLONE WARS, the hardcover based on the movie - loosely based, so no griping that it's different, please, because that's the whole point - is out on July 26. Full of the gritty, off-message, character-testing, question-raising, grey-area, military-oriented stuff you've come to expect from me. And clones. Plenty of clones. And familiar characters from the movies that you won't see quite the same way ever again. posted:
And with that statement, I will not even be bothering with her books in the series. Sigh, I can see it now. Clones are people too, but they're better than everyone. Jedi are incompetent, except those that want to train to be Mando. Kal Skirata is God. Somehow she'll fit all that crap in there.
Which is why I'm iffy on picking this up too. Karen Traviss star wars novels are all about how the jedi are incompetant and evil, the sith are benevolant and the Manalorians are the only true path to wisdom & enlightenment & the light side of the force. And NONE of these themes will be in the movie in any fashion so if they end up being the point of the novel there isw going to be this huge disconnect that will make it hard to enjoy the book. She wasn't a good choice to write this.
Notw, this is not intended as a bash just a critique.
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Excellence
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
7/8 3:52am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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All right . . . I'm fed up with these comments. Someone show me one example of "Jedi incompetence" once and for all. For I saw not a single iota of it in True Colours, the book you guys claimed was prevalent.
I want to see lots of examples put forth, because I'm reading the same books and I'm not seeing anything. What--exactly--happed to Jusik and Tur-Murkan thgat appalled you lot?
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My utilisation of complex locution to ask what's more pathetic, fans who worship their
movie actors, or the actors who couldn't give a damn, is more a reflection of my own
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The_Four_Dot_Elipsis
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
7/8 4:44am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Excellence posted:
All right . . . I'm fed up with these comments. Someone show me one example of "Jedi incompetence" once and for all. For I saw not a single iota of it in True Colours, the book you guys claimed was prevalent.
I want to see lots of examples put forth, because I'm reading the same books and I'm not seeing anything. What--exactly--happed to Jusik and Tur-Murkan thgat appalled you lot?
They might be talking about Legacy of the Force...
Mando's knee-capping Sith and all that rot.
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"Last night you promised Spartacus to me! Where is he? In return, I promised you the sale of the survivors and there will be none!"
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sidious618
Registered:
Apr '03
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Date Posted:
7/8 8:35am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Excellence posted:
All right . . . I'm fed up with these comments. Someone show me one example of "Jedi incompetence" once and for all. For I saw not a single iota of it in True Colours, the book you guys claimed was prevalent.
I want to see lots of examples put forth, because I'm reading the same books and I'm not seeing anything. What--exactly--happed to Jusik and Tur-Murkan thgat appalled you lot?
You want to see it? Read Revelation.
Actually, on second though, don't.
I'll be passing on this new book.
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But in purple, I'm stunning!- Londo Mollari, Babylon 5
Obama '08
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jedimasterED
Title: Moderator Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
7/8 10:46am
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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sidious618 posted:
Excellence posted:
All right . . . I'm fed up with these comments. Someone show me one example of "Jedi incompetence" once and for all. For I saw not a single iota of it in True Colours, the book you guys claimed was prevalent.
I want to see lots of examples put forth, because I'm reading the same books and I'm not seeing anything. What--exactly--happed to Jusik and Tur-Murkan thgat appalled you lot?
You want to see it? Read Revelation.
Actually, on second though, don't.
I'll be passing on this new book.
I'm with Ex here: PPR. I am also sick of this sort of "I think this, so this is now fact," posting without any real analysis, use of direct quotes from the text, etc. It's one of the reasons I hardly ever post anymore. If someone holds an opinion and shares it with the rest of us, they should be willing to do the work to defend it instead of passive-aggressive cop-outs like "You want to see it? Read Revelation."
Now, mind you, I'm not Traviss apologist, either. I tire of her Mando'a-translation-double-talk and her Mando-centric approach, but when someone asks you to show you an example of Jedi incompetence from her work, I dare you to do so in an intelligent and informed manner.
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Trip
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
7/8 2:45pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Ed, there's been loads of text-supported direct-quoted analyses of why Ms Traviss is terrible at writing Jedi in anything resembling a canon-compliant fashion-- I know you haven't been around much, but we've got a pretty slick search function up under the board's banner if you want to catch up. I'm tempted to indulge here, but I suspect this thread isn't really the place for it.
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Taung > Mando'ade
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
7/8 4:28pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Having looked up "off-message" in the British context, my eyebrows are once more raised - not something a franchise author should really be bragging about! For something like Republic Commando, a minority POV is fine. But when you're in main plot territory, being true to the message of the universe seems like it should be a necessary requirement.
On the Mando thing - meh - for me it's their complete lack of commitment to being Jedi, the disregard for the idea that being a Jedi is something important and valuable rather than a mere obstacle to clonebabies...and the "they're only good for opening beer bottles" jokes. And the way the Jedi are criticised without putting up an adequate defense of their beliefs, without making the Mandalorians ever consider that what they're doing was right. I can't see Traviss ever writing someone sympathetic fully abandoning the Mandalorian way to embrace the Jedi path, though we've had plenty of the opposite.
Is some of the supposed "Mando love" the POV of the characters as has been argued? Maybe. But six books in it's getting to be like Robert Heinlein and incest - yeah, the author's into it, don't expect us to be.
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jedimasterED
Title: Moderator Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
7/8 5:42pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Trip posted:
Ed, there's been loads of text-supported direct-quoted analyses of why Ms Traviss is terrible at writing Jedi in anything resembling a canon-compliant fashion-- I know you haven't been around much, but we've got a pretty slick search function up under the board's banner if you want to catch up. I'm tempted to indulge here, but I suspect this thread isn't really the place for it.
You're right, Trip, there is a "pretty slick search function", of which I am well aware (I'll choose to ignore your tone and the implications of the words "pretty slick") and this thread isn't the place to discuss the opinion that Ms. Traviss is "terrible at writing Jedi", just what the heck "canon-complaint fashion" is supposed to mean (Are you suggesting that she has outright contradicted established continuity or just the way you've come to understand a character?), or to indulge in discussing the finer points of supporting one's argument. That said, I still hold my position that people bash authors far too often without offering any viable support for their opinions other than "typing them on teh intertubes makes them true". And, vaguely citing a potential dearth of previous threads that might actually include posts that support the same position (like that business on Cato Nemoidia) doesn't, doesn't count.
I just find it ridiculous that people continue to post about how they're not going to get the book this thread is supposed to be about because they weren't happy with the previous offering from the author. That's like refusing to eat dinner tomorrow because my wife overcooked the spaghetti tonight. Perhaps... maybe... just once... Karen might get it right enough for you? No? Fine.
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Trip
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
7/8 5:48pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Ed posted:
this thread isn't the place to discuss the opinion that Ms. Traviss is "terrible at writing Jedi"
Then don't.
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Taung > Mando'ade
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Jedipete33
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/8 5:52pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Well of the 6 SW novels she's written so far. They all have a positive Mandalorian influence. I'd like to see her move away from that for once. Considering this is a 5 book series, I want Traviss' books to flow right into Miller's novels.
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jedimasterED
Title: Moderator Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
7/8 5:59pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Trip posted:
Ed posted:
this thread isn't the place to discuss the opinion that Ms. Traviss is "terrible at writing Jedi"
Then don't.
This is clearly a violation of TOS item #2 (the first sentence) and JC Rule #6 (under "Posting Rules and Regulations"). It serves no purpose in furthering the discussion and is typical of folks like Trip. I'm sorry I was a part of it.
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Trip
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
7/8 6:15pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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You misunderstand.
I'm saying, this thread is not the place for this kind of discussion, be it defending one's opinion with quotes and all that fun stuff or asking someone to do the same.
But by all means, feel free to Trip-trap over my apparent bridge in a more appropriate thread. There've been plenty. I'd direct you to the search function, but, well... I don't want to offend!
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Taung > Mando'ade
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jedimasterED
Title: Moderator Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
7/8 6:24pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
7/8 6:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
jedimasterED
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I don't think I misunderstand at all. You're tart reply served no purpose. I was done discussing the things listed in my post, the off-topic things and discussion had gotten somewhat back on track. And then you posted you smart-alek response. I beg you, let the thread get back on topic: Clone Wars: Book 1 by Karen Traviss. That book, not her others. These might come in handy:(from the Literature Forum Code of Conduct)
* Treat your fellow posters with respect. Likewise, treat VIPs, even those who are not users on this site, with respect.
* Do not state opinions, assumptions, "personal canon," or rumors as facts. Identify them for what they are.
* Be prepared to back up your points with evidence and facts. Likewise, be prepared to explain the reasoning for your criticism.
* Read a book or comic before you review it. Withhold final judgement of a work until you have read it.
* Do not sidetrack threads with personal confrontations, conversations, or arguments.
* Your posts should contribute to a discussion, not detract from it. Having just re-read the previous posts to figure out what I had to actually add to the discussion and having read the movie plot spoilers posted by TF.N, I wonder just how different this book will be from the movie (i.e.: will the book's plot follow 75% of the film or less).
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
... and all that that implies...
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_Catherine_
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
7/8 8:28pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Clone Wars: Book 1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
7/8 8:33pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
_Catherine_
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Manisphere posted:
This is just the worst lookin' thing. It sadly gives the impression that ALL Traviss can write about are clones and Mandos. 
Well...
EDIT:  Dammit, Trip! I just had to read one more post...
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