Ice1605 posted:

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He is young, yes, perhaps too young. But, sort of like how Luke went from a moisture farmer to a Jedi Knight in about 4 years, Ben had to grow up quickly to survive, with Jacen's influence and all. Luke had to, and did, acquire a lot of power in a short amount of time, with a minimum of training. Ability to adjust to various situations is a trait that Ben shares with his father, IMHO.

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JaySkywalker01 posted:

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In one of the books, Ben made a comment about how he wouldn't be a Knight "for years".

I really think that Luke referring to him as such was just in the generic sense. However, I doubt many people will argue with the Grandmaster.

All this aside, is Ben on the level of the other Jedi in the NJO? We're so used to seeing these powerful masters that we forget there is still an order of average joes out there. I could buy that Ben is as powerful as Valin Horn, for instance. Or some of those other Jedi Knights that participated in the assault on Jacen with Katarn. He doesn't have to be at his full potential to be considered a Knight. Considering the dangerous missions he has been sent on, and his success at such, I don't think calling him a knight is too much of a stretch.

However, until I see him called a Knight in other sources or officially proclaimed as one, I'm still going to think of him as an apprentice.

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marmkid posted:

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JaySkywalker01 posted:

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In one of the books, Ben made a comment about how he wouldn't be a Knight "for years".

I really think that Luke referring to him as such was just in the generic sense. However, I doubt many people will argue with the Grandmaster.

All this aside, is Ben on the level of the other Jedi in the NJO? We're so used to seeing these powerful masters that we forget there is still an order of average joes out there. I could buy that Ben is as powerful as Valin Horn, for instance. Or some of those other Jedi Knights that participated in the assault on Jacen with Katarn. He doesn't have to be at his full potential to be considered a Knight. Considering the dangerous missions he has been sent on, and his success at such, I don't think calling him a knight is too much of a stretch.

However, until I see him called a Knight in other sources or officially proclaimed as one, I'm still going to think of him as an apprentice.

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it seems Luke's order really hasnt defined what it takes to become a knight vs being an apprentice
in star by star, wasnt the entire strike team not technically knights?
yet they went on a mission with no full knights or masters
so it all seems to be semantics with the new order, which necessarily isnt a bad thing
Ben goes off on missions that he is told to go on, he doesnt make his own
so whether that is as a knight or an apprentice, i guess it doesnt matter

there doesnt seem to be the strict master-apprentice relationship as there was in the PT
it started to seem that way in the NJO, but it didnt really follow through
Anakin was passed between Luke and Mara
Jaina entered rogue squadron and wasnt really apprenticing to mara anymore
Jace was with Luke, but then went with Corran and Ganner on missions

and we seem to see Kyp and Saba a lot without ever having an apprentice

are the rest of the younger jedi just at the academy being taught in larger groups?


i think once that all gets defined clearly, then the actual rank of knight vs apprentice might mean more

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JaySkywalker01 posted:

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Taking that into account...I guess the titles of Knight, padawan, etc are all bunk. All that seems to matter is Jedi or Jedi Master. We still don't know what it takes to be a Master PT or NJO...the only mention I know is that C'Boath declared himself one and nobody disputed it.

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marmkid posted:

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JaySkywalker01 posted:

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Taking that into account...I guess the titles of Knight, padawan, etc are all bunk. All that seems to matter is Jedi or Jedi Master. We still don't know what it takes to be a Master PT or NJO...the only mention I know is that C'Boath declared himself one and nobody disputed it.

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i thought there was the old saying that you become a master once you take an apprentice

not sure if that is still the case these days or not

they kept mentioning Jacen teaching Ben as an "unofficial" situation, which essentially was their way of saying Jacen is not a master yet


but yes, i think the difference between Knight and padawan is not defined at all
I guess you are a knight if you can go on a mission
which in that case, Ben is a knight, since he went on the mission in Invincible where he got captured and he was alone, if i remember right


whether he is or isnt a knight is debatable
but the jedi treat him like a knight

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JaySkywalker01 posted:

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That's true...in the DNT Leia stated that Corran was a Knight after he had trained some apprentice to the point of Knighthood. That might be one path. Not sure if it is necessarily THE path.

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marmkid posted:

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JaySkywalker01 posted:

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Taking that into account...I guess the titles of Knight, padawan, etc are all bunk. All that seems to matter is Jedi or Jedi Master. We still don't know what it takes to be a Master PT or NJO...the only mention I know is that C'Boath declared himself one and nobody disputed it.

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i thought there was the old saying that you become a master once you take an apprentice

not sure if that is still the case these days or not

they kept mentioning Jacen teaching Ben as an "unofficial" situation, which essentially was their way of saying Jacen is not a master yet


but yes, i think the difference between Knight and padawan is not defined at all
I guess you are a knight if you can go on a mission
which in that case, Ben is a knight, since he went on the mission in Invincible where he got captured and he was alone, if i remember right


whether he is or isnt a knight is debatable
but the jedi treat him like a knight

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Nishka posted:

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But by that defintion than Seha Dorvald is a knight because she went on a mission in fury? I have to go more with Nepotism than anything else. He's the grand master son so he gets special latitudes

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marmkid posted:

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Nishka posted:

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But by that defintion than Seha Dorvald is a knight because she went on a mission in fury? I have to go more with Nepotism than anything else. He's the grand master son so he gets special latitudes

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i wasnt saying that is the definition, just that there isnt one and it seems to be arbitrary
like i said before, all the youngsters went to Mrkyr in star by star and they werent knights
but they were essentially all treated like knights at the time

its definitely nepotism, and the fact that the writers would rather write about ben than any other kids we dont know

i dont remember who seha is or what she did in fury, what was her mission?
do you know for a fact that she isnt a knight?


but it makes sense that if you get the responsibility that comes with going on a mission, that you are at least somewhat prepared and are approaching knighthood or close to being ready for your trials (which also have never been defined)

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Volderon posted:

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I gaurantee you that if Ben had to do his trials he would pass without any problems. I read in one of the novels, I can't remember which, that the final test during the trials is "looking within oneself" or something like that whatever, the point is that Ben did not turn Sith when he had the chance so he has nothing to fear. However, Anakin Skywalker did not do his trials because of the Clone Wars and he never had to "face himself" so we really don't know if he would have passed.

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Volderon posted:

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marmkid posted:

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Nishka posted:

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But by that defintion than Seha Dorvald is a knight because she went on a mission in fury? I have to go more with Nepotism than anything else. He's the grand master son so he gets special latitudes

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i wasnt saying that is the definition, just that there isnt one and it seems to be arbitrary
like i said before, all the youngsters went to Mrkyr in star by star and they werent knights
but they were essentially all treated like knights at the time

its definitely nepotism, and the fact that the writers would rather write about ben than any other kids we dont know

i dont remember who seha is or what she did in fury, what was her mission?
do you know for a fact that she isnt a knight?


but it makes sense that if you get the responsibility that comes with going on a mission, that you are at least somewhat prepared and are approaching knighthood or close to being ready for your trials (which also have never been defined)

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I gaurantee you that if Ben had to do his trials he would pass without any problems. I read in one of the novels, I can't remember which, that the final test during the trials is "looking within oneself" or something like that whatever, the point is that Ben did not turn Sith when he had the chance so he has nothing to fear. However, Anakin Skywalker did not do his trials because of the Clone Wars and he never had to "face himself" so we really don't know if he would have passed.

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