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Author Topic: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
morrison85  8101 posts
Registered: May '05
49062_Darth Caedus (811092)
Date Posted: 7/11/08 8:37am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
yea but the term padawan doesnt seem to exist anymore in these days.

 

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marmkid  2399 posts
Registered: Apr '01
Date Posted: 7/11/08 9:05am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
Nishka posted:

As for Ben being more adapt at the force at his age then the solo twins. That I have to disagree with because I think the solo twins especally Anakin Solo were shown in novels to have a lot more power and were much more advanced then Ben in Legacy. Its not really a critisim of Ben as I do think he will become a good Jedi Knight. More of a critisim of the writers for mishandling Ben.



i agree with that compared to the solo twins
i dont think anything really is mishandled either

didnt Ben essentially reject anything force related or training until he started with Jacen in the DNT?
so he didnt learn from the time he was born like the solo twins
which is why at the same age, they were more adept in the force, but they didnt have Ben's other experience

so basically its a wash
the solo twins were great at force studies stuff, while ben is a great soldier, while still becoming adept at all the force stuff
like the twins, he is a quick study

 
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JaySkywalker01  1197 posts
Registered: Oct '05
43775_Shado Vao
Date Posted: 7/11/08 9:11am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
marmkid posted:
Nishka posted:

As for Ben being more adapt at the force at his age then the solo twins. That I have to disagree with because I think the solo twins especally Anakin Solo were shown in novels to have a lot more power and were much more advanced then Ben in Legacy. Its not really a critisim of Ben as I do think he will become a good Jedi Knight. More of a critisim of the writers for mishandling Ben.



i agree with that compared to the solo twins
i dont think anything really is mishandled either

didnt Ben essentially reject anything force related or training until he started with Jacen in the DNT?
so he didnt learn from the time he was born like the solo twins
which is why at the same age, they were more adept in the force, but they didnt have Ben's other experience

so basically its a wash
the solo twins were great at force studies stuff, while ben is a great soldier, while still becoming adept at all the force stuff
like the twins, he is a quick study


The Solo twins were not really trained from birth. The Force was always a part of their lives, but they didn't start their formal training at the Jedi Academy until around age 14. I imagine this had to do with the fact that, before the PT, authors probably believed that would be a suitable age to begin. They showed their natural affinity for the Force before that though, but that was about it. At age 14, they were not really all that adept at the Force anymore so than other Padawans at the Academy.

The age they BEGAN their training is the age that Ben currently is...apparently, as a Jedi Knight. Strange, huh?

 

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Nishka  200 posts
Registered: Jul '04
8174_Luke and Mara
Date Posted: 7/11/08 9:19am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
Anakin though went to the praxium at 11 though

 
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JaySkywalker01  1197 posts
Registered: Oct '05
43775_Shado Vao
Date Posted: 7/11/08 9:22am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
Nishka posted:
Anakin though went to the praxium at 11 though


He'd still be considered "too old to begin the training" by OJO standards. I wonder why Anakin got to go earlier? ah well....

 

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Jay:
"Ben Franklin said, speak softly and carry a big stick!"
Carnage:
Uhm, Ben Franklin was more like "Speak Loud, Get Wasted, and use his "Stick" on French Women."
Oh yeah....
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marmkid  2399 posts
Registered: Apr '01
Date Posted: 7/11/08 9:24am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
JaySkywalker01 posted:
The Solo twins were not really trained from birth. The Force was always a part of their lives, but they didn't start their formal training at the Jedi Academy until around age 14. I imagine this had to do with the fact that, before the PT, authors probably believed that would be a suitable age to begin. They showed their natural affinity for the Force before that though, but that was about it. At age 14, they were not really all that adept at the Force anymore so than other Padawans at the Academy.

The age they BEGAN their training is the age that Ben currently is...apparently, as a Jedi Knight. Strange, huh?



i meant they didnt reject the force like Ben did
it was more a part of their first 14 years than it was for Ben it seems, since he was hiding from the force until Jacen made him more comfortable with it

the solo twins didnt show up at the academy at age 14 never having used or experienced the force
Ben it seems started fresh at whatever age that he was in the DNT
not much of a difference really, just showing that the solo twins had more force related experience by that time compared to ben

though ben has much much more real life experience also using the force, so i think at the same age, he is probably closer to a knight than they were, just due to that fact.
he seems a little more mature for the age

 
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NelanisGhost  2169 posts
Registered: Jun '06
14535_Yuuzhan Vong High Priestess
Date Posted: 7/11/08 9:31am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight? - Date Edited: 7/11/08 9:42am (3 edits total) Edited By: NelanisGhost
It's really just nepotism that Ben is a Knight. His dad isn't exactly fair minded with family members, let alone his own son, whose pretty much run the house since he was a toddler, from the looks of it. His parents were trained well by him, lol...

Ben has never done much in the force that impressed me. Not wanting to eat a little girl when you know better. Not killing your cousin with your dad in the room, and he wanted to, doesn't exactly emulate The Obi-wan and Maul Duel, for example. Esp. when set against Anakin Skywalker fighting dogfights a year older than Ben and and flying in podracers when he was a year younger than Ben. And how Jacen fought off a dark jedi with a lightsaber at two, with a comatose Luke nearby. Or when Jaina could fly at ten and showed no fear being kidnapped at six. Or when Anakin shot off Centerpoint at two, and had force temper tantrums at one and fought off clone PALPATINE in the womb. The Solo kids all outpower Ben. And they wanted to be wiser, wanted to please. I see them as have more nobility and grace than Ben will ever have.

Ben is sort of an average Jedi with a lot of potential. He is fairly level headed and still just a kid. I don't think he has earned the Knight title. It was handed to him by Luke just as Mara was given Master status after only a few years of real dedication to her Jedi studies and work. And I don't think she studied anything more than making herself more powerful, not more thoughtful or wise. I think Ben is more thoughtful than both parents for his age, but he's been forced to grow up too fast and has no support group, just a bunch of senior citizens around him. I don't care for his personality. He's not very appealing or charming. He's like a mini Jag, I think. Before Jag had a personality.......

Luke is blind where is relatives are concerned. If he'd been more neutral, Jacen would still be a Jedi.

All in all, LOTF has ruined the younger generation. This was a wrong and horrible direction to go in, IMO, and it's never going to be better, because DR is enchanted with character assassination, non sequiters, and death/destruction of SW itself.

 

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JaySkywalker01  1197 posts
Registered: Oct '05
43775_Shado Vao
Date Posted: 7/11/08 9:36am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
As far as Ben rejecting the Force at the start of his life, I thought that would make for an interesting journey for him. Unfortunately, he decides to embrace the Force off-screen and we have another Skywalker Jedi. I think it was just to replace Anakin. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose. But it might have been interesting to see a Muggle Skywalker at least for awhile.

 

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Jay:
"Ben Franklin said, speak softly and carry a big stick!"
Carnage:
Uhm, Ben Franklin was more like "Speak Loud, Get Wasted, and use his "Stick" on French Women."
Oh yeah....
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marmkid  2399 posts
Registered: Apr '01
Date Posted: 7/11/08 9:38am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
JaySkywalker01 posted:
As far as Ben rejecting the Force at the start of his life, I thought that would make for an interesting journey for him. Unfortunately, he decides to embrace the Force off-screen and we have another Skywalker Jedi. I think it was just to replace Anakin. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose. But it might have been interesting to see a Muggle Skywalker at least for awhile.



i guess Cade was doing that for a while too
that is over for him also

 
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JaySkywalker01  1197 posts
Registered: Oct '05
43775_Shado Vao
Date Posted: 7/11/08 9:53am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
marmkid posted:
JaySkywalker01 posted:
As far as Ben rejecting the Force at the start of his life, I thought that would make for an interesting journey for him. Unfortunately, he decides to embrace the Force off-screen and we have another Skywalker Jedi. I think it was just to replace Anakin. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose. But it might have been interesting to see a Muggle Skywalker at least for awhile.



i guess Cade was doing that for a while too
that is over for him also


So is there an absence of free will in Star Wars, perhaps? Maybe you really can't escape your destiny if you use the Force.

 

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Jay:
"Ben Franklin said, speak softly and carry a big stick!"
Carnage:
Uhm, Ben Franklin was more like "Speak Loud, Get Wasted, and use his "Stick" on French Women."
Oh yeah....
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marmkid  2399 posts
Registered: Apr '01
Date Posted: 7/11/08 9:56am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
JaySkywalker01 posted:


So is there an absence of free will in Star Wars, perhaps? Maybe you really can't escape your destiny if you use the Force.




i guess it would depend on what your reason would be for not using the force?
i cant really think of a good one that would hold someone for their entire life really

 
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JaySkywalker01  1197 posts
Registered: Oct '05
43775_Shado Vao
Date Posted: 7/11/08 11:16am Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
marmkid posted:
JaySkywalker01 posted:


So is there an absence of free will in Star Wars, perhaps? Maybe you really can't escape your destiny if you use the Force.




i guess it would depend on what your reason would be for not using the force?
i cant really think of a good one that would hold someone for their entire life really


Cade probably had the best reason not to use the Force. Whatever mistakes he made, his past seems to justify his life as a bounty hunter. Catching Jedi was, unfortunately, just part of the job. I'm glad he came around though.

 

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Jay:
"Ben Franklin said, speak softly and carry a big stick!"
Carnage:
Uhm, Ben Franklin was more like "Speak Loud, Get Wasted, and use his "Stick" on French Women."
Oh yeah....
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Nishka  200 posts
Registered: Jul '04
8174_Luke and Mara
Date Posted: 7/11/08 8:14pm Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
marmkid posted:
JaySkywalker01 posted:


So is there an absence of free will in Star Wars, perhaps? Maybe you really can't escape your destiny if you use the Force.




i guess it would depend on what your reason would be for not using the force?
i cant really think of a good one that would hold someone for their entire life really


Me either, plus I mean I don't really understand how someone could just not use the force. I mean yes not using it in obivous ways like lifting a table. But how would you stop say the visions or the subtle whispered warning when someone is firing a blaster at you. The Force is always with you just simply denying what you are doesn't change what you are.

I guess in star wars you can't really deny your destiny. Maybe just change it.

 
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rumsmuggler  18275 posts
Registered: Aug '00
19227_Lando Calrissian
Date Posted: 7/12/08 5:23pm Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
Nishka posted:
marmkid posted:
i think they were knighted in the 4th hardcover of the NJO
was that Destiny's Way?
its then that Jaina is named the Sword of the Jedi


Correct


The Solo twins have been knighted at least twice, just like their mother.

Leia has been a Knight, then slacked off for a few years, a knight again, slacked off for a few more years, so on and so forth, until now..

 

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CadderlySoaring  121 posts
Registered: Jul '08
39851_Obi-Wan
Date Posted: 7/12/08 7:11pm Subject: RE: Ben Skywalker: Jedi Knight?
As said, the terms "Jedi Knight", "Jedi Apprentice" and errr...."Trainee?" are very...very loose under Luke's regime.

Perhaps the Vong Invasion officially stopped such protocols due to the chaos that ensued but ever since Luke sent a bunch of non-official "Knights" on a deadly mission, it can be said that the Jedi levels are loosely followed.

But there's nothing wrong with that, I think. Luke was doing everything on a wing and a prayer earlier on without guidance. Neither Yoda nor Obi Wan never told them about the ways of the Old Republic Jedi Order...and perhaps they had their reasons.

Since it ultimately failed.

 
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