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Topic:
SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader (Warning: TFU Spoilers)
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Jedi Merkurian
Title: Games: RPG d20 GM
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
7/17 7:50am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
- Date Edited:
7/17 7:54am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jedi Merkurian
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And thus is revealed the only outright lie that Sidious utters in the entire trilogy. Ever.
PS: Sign me up for the club, too. I'm soooo tired of "Darth Anakin" and "Fuzzy Kittens Vader" One of my hopes about the upcoming CG movie and series is that Anakin gets portrayed as a Big **** Hero. I also hope that any future depictions of Vader in the timeframe between Dark Lord and the end of ESB show him as having "imprisoned" Anakin, as Qui-Gon alluded to.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/17 7:52am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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That would probably be the one about the Jedi killing the Senators. The above material "reveals" no lie.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
7/17 7:56am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
- Date Edited:
7/17 7:56am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ulicus
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Quite right. That Anakin chooses to interpret: "He taught his apprentice everything he knew" as "Plagueis taught the apprentice everything Plagueis knew", rather than "Plagueis taught the apprentice everything the apprentice knew" is his own darn problem.
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rhonderoo
Title:
Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:05am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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Actually, Palpatine outright says "only through me can you achieve the power you need to save....your wife" when they are circling each other and Anakin's about to put his saber through him in Palp's office. In the movie called "Revenge of the Sith"... 
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DT421  And the hot chick is really the sister of the good guy, but they don't know it, and they kiss. Which is kind of messed up. I mean, what if they had done it instead of just kissed?
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:11am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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No, really?
Still not a lie.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:12am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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Arawn Fenn posted:
Not true. PPOR.
I consider people who say Post Proof or Retract to be borderline trolling, Arawn. It's a very confrontational statement and I think you should seriously pause before ever posting something like that.
However, its decidedly misleading to suggest that his apprentice knew the secret of immortality (i.e. him) and only after Anakin's betrayal tell him that together they could discover it.
Arawn Fenn posted:
Yeah, I wonder whose fault that was? rolling_eyes
I'm sorry, are you having eye difficulties? What does Anakin getting conned have anything to do with the fact he's a bad guy?
Arawn Fenn posted:
Awwww. Poor widdle Anakin.
Your attitude would make more sense if I was defending Anakin. I'm saying he's an idiot in addition to being evil.
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Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:15am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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rhonderoo posted:
Actually, Palpatine outright says "only through me can you achieve the power you need to save....your wife" when they are circling each other and Anakin's about to put his saber through him in Palp's office. In the movie called "Revenge of the Sith"...
Well, that's true... from a CPOV. It's only through Palpatine that Anakin would have a chance at doing some Sith midichlorian mojo to save Padme. Not a good chance, but Sith biosciences are more Palpatine's forte than Anakin's.
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_Catherine_
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:16am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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Ulicus posted:
Quite right. That Anakin chooses to interpret: "He taught his apprentice everything he knew" as "Plagueis taught the apprentice everything Plagueis knew", rather than "Plagueis taught the apprentice everything the apprentice knew" is his own darn problem.
Indeed. In the novelization, Palpatine even implies as much: "Well, to safeguard his power's existence, he teaches the path toward it to his apprentice."
The only part I never got was why Anakin, having betrayed Mace Windu under the assumption that Palpatine could save Padmé and then discovering that he had been misled, just sat back and took Palpatine's deception in stride. Even though he decided that allying with Palpatine to attempt to find Plagueis's secret was worth Mace's death, I would have expected him to have some sort of reservations about continuing to do as Palpatine said once he learned that the assumption he had been working under was false, but the movie and the novel don't show or hint at any hesitation on his part.
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There ain't no rust on the happiness bus. I don't understand this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bPmN00_HUsE
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rhonderoo
Title:
Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:16am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
- Date Edited:
7/17 8:22am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
rhonderoo
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Yeah, really!
And it very much is a lie. He can't give Anakin the power to save his wife, in fact, he did the opposite. Needless to say, it's not worth pulling out the dozens of quotes where Lucas himself says this, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
And diz, I agree. In the state of mind he's in, I guess he's clinging to some really big "ifs". I think it's also giving himself the excuse to give Palpatine the benefit of the doubt. Like Catherine, I agree it would have been smarter to then toss Palpatine out the window having found out he couldn't save Padme, but I don't know when he finds out for sure... is it in ROTS or Dark Lord?
But I don't get the word "apologist" for fictional character. Number 1, it's pretty much flaming said poster (who is not a fictional character) and number 2... it's a fictional character. 
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DT421 And the hot chick is really the sister of the good guy, but they don't know it, and they kiss. Which is kind of messed up. I mean, what if they had done it instead of just kissed?
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:20am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
- Date Edited:
7/17 8:23am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Arawn_Fenn
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Charlemagne19 posted:
I consider people who say Post Proof or Retract to be borderline trolling, Arawn. It's a very confrontational statement and I think you should seriously pause before ever posting something like that.
You're out of your Vulcan mind. I think you should be able to back up your statements with proof. Also, deliberate and knowing misuse of the word "troll" isn't cute. 
Charlemagne19 posted:
I'm sorry, are you having eye difficulties? What does Anakin getting conned have anything to do with the fact he's a bad guy?
Why does Padme's death mean that Palpatine lied?
rhonderoo posted:
And it very much is a lie. He can't give Anakin the power to save his wife, in fact, he did the opposite.
It is in no way a lie. Sith Master teaches Sith Apprentice the ways of the dark side. That's how it works.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:21am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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I think Palpatine was rubbing Anakin's nose in it actually.
Anakin had dug his own grave by that point and knew it.
He's not an idiot, he's just utterly unable to think before he acts.
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JaySkywalker01
Registered:
Oct '05
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:23am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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I don't see why it's hard to accept that the Dark Lord of the Sith- the equivalent for the Devil in the GFFA- would LIE!
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Jay:
"Ben Franklin said, speak softly and carry a big stick!"
Carnage:
Uhm, Ben Franklin was more like "Speak Loud, Get Wasted, and use his "Stick" on French Women."
Oh yeah....
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rhonderoo
Title:
Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:24am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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Thank you.
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DT421 And the hot chick is really the sister of the good guy, but they don't know it, and they kiss. Which is kind of messed up. I mean, what if they had done it instead of just kissed?
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:29am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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Yeah, we all know Palpatine is capable of lying. That's no great revelation. I even pointed out one of his lies above.
However, nothing that he said to Anakin about the dark side was proven to be a lie.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Jedi Merkurian
Title: Games: RPG d20 GM
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
7/17 8:33am
Subject:
RE: SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader
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JaySkywalker01 posted:
I don't see why it's hard to accept that the Dark Lord of the Sith- the equivalent for the Devil in the GFFA- would LIE!
But it's so much more diabolical, and dare I say insidious to deceive with the truth 
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