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Topic:
The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
7/23 12:55pm
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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CH, have you finished the book yet? If so, could you spill the beans on what goes down insofar as the duel between the SA and Vader is concerned? 
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CeiranHarmony
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/23 1:50pm
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Ulicus posted:
CH, have you finished the book yet? If so, could you spill the beans on what goes down insofar as the duel between the SA and Vader is concerned?
not yet finished, will finish it within the next 2 days. my baby daughter keeps me busy
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"Less is more!" Union
"Make Love, not Clone War."
Starkiller vs. Skywalker vs. Death Star = The Force Unleashed
My life is an Idiots Array, PURE SABBACC
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Winged_Jedi
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
7/23 2:33pm
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Thanks for providing the spoilers thus far. Very intriguing! I don't know if I just had low expectations, but I'm surprised by how good this sounds so far.
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
-Games
-LACWAC
-Lit Mod of Death
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
7/23 3:23pm
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Hmm... could Bria's talk in the HST with Winter now be secretly or inadvertently be an action puppeted by Vader's order here?
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snelson
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
7/23 4:27pm
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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shaak ti gets stabbed by jacob and falls into a sarlacc pit an ignoble end for a great jedi. the emperor kills jacob
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
7/23 4:28pm
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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Ulicus posted:
And, finally, if this is your first night within the Secret Apprenticeship, you have to shine my helmet.[/i]
 
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HemDazon90
Registered:
Mar '08
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Date Posted:
7/23 9:38pm
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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snelson posted:
shaak ti gets stabbed by jacob and falls into a sarlacc pit an ignoble end for a great jedi. the emperor kills jacob
ha ha ha she died like a pig
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CoppiceThorne
Registered:
Jun '08
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Date Posted:
7/23 11:07pm
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
7/24 12:08am (12 edits total)
Edited By:
CoppiceThorne
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*I wrote this before reading the previous posts about Vader maybe still being fine with the Empire, just not with the Emperor....and because I haven’t read the book, a lot of this post is likely to be wrong. They’re just thoughts from my perspective:
Using his enemies against the Emperor?
That's a huge thing, at least for me.
I know Vader has been conflicted, but I wouldn't have thought he would have taken things this far...[Edit: and especially this soon!]
Does that mean he cares little for dragging the Empire down as well, unless he thinks the Imperials are going to stay victorious anyway? That he's not all that loyal to the Imperial cause, and is just pretending to be, ruining everything from the inside, like a termite? This turn of events may be focused more on the Emperor than the Empire, but in many ways those two are one and the same. That changes the way we look at him in the movies. I always think of him as being an anti-Rebel hardliner, loyal to the Emperor and loyal to the Empire, above all. Not the sort of person who would (even in hating them) prefer the Rebels over the Emperor -- in the old way of looking at OT anyway; ROTS having changed things a bit (perhaps Vader feeling betrayed over the whole ‘saving Padme from death’ affair). Though maybe things, in his mind, have gotten so bad, he'd do anything to get rid of the Emperor, no matter what that entails.
ESB and ROTJ have an undercurrent of Vader having secret feelings against the Emperor's wishes. But I like to think Vader hasn't made the ultimate decision of betrayal against the Emperor until the end of ROTJ.
They are Master and Apprentice, but there is also a little undercurrent of friendship as well. The Emperor, in ROTJ, refers to Vader as his friend. One can wonder about the veracity of that claim, but I take it as genuine.
Having that definite betrayal in ROTJ is more powerful IMHO. Because before that point one isn't to know Vader's true feelings. That he may still be loyal to the Emperor and cannot be swayed. And one gets that feeling in that film. Sure, we cannot see his inner feelings but...mystery is often better, than having a backstory take some of that away. Unless, by ROTJ he realizes that going against his Master is ultimately futile, and sort of accepts things until there’s a viable opening...and maybe he realizes there'll never likely be another chance now. Until Luke opens him up to that long buried hope again.
In both ROTS & ESB Vader says along the lines of 'We can overthrow the Emperor, together we can rule the galaxy'. I like to think he is thinking of that, but not to act on it necessarily. That the thought is planted in your mind in both films, but that it may not be able to be taken seriously either. For fans, the ability to read things either way, is a good thing. In this day and age you have fans of the Sith and/or the Empire, and fans of the Rebels and/or the Jedi. It's good that all camps can find what they want in the OT. I guess they still can, but Vader has been a much beloved character, and I originally liked him because he was a downright baddy, loyal to both Master and Empire.
From the way I see it, Palpatine saved his life. Yes, I know it can be said: what life, now, horrible that it is? But Vader would have died otherwise, on Mustafar. And he still has a life. I know the Sith have a tendency of betrayal, but even if Palpy has been underhand in his affections toward Vader, I think there has been some genuine care involved. Two Sith alone in the galaxy, why not band together against one's detractors, as buddies? Sure, that can be seen as perhaps advantageousness more than anything, a friendship that is dropped when it is ill-suited. Still, it is great to see them in cahoots.
Also, wouldn't the Emperor be aware of Vader using their enemies against him? He usually tends to know just about everything that is going on. As in KT's words at the start of In His Image, maybe the Emperor is fine with this, and even encourages it, though in some ways I cannot imagine these means of doing it pleasing him (using their enemies to do it...unless there's the satisfaction of destroying them at the same time, a kind of perversion; you know, easier to do this when they're in a single targetable bunch rather than spread across the galaxy). Maybe the Emperor will use all of this turn of events as an opportunity, not being fazed by Vader on this. Though it can also change the way we look at the Emperor wanting to replace Vader. Yes, he may have been planning to replace him all along, as per Tyranus. But what if this new turn of events makes the Emperor want to commit revenge against Vader for this betrayal? ‘You tried to get rid of me, but I’m going to ruin your life -- I’ll get a hold of your son, and pit him against you. Let’s see how this eats you up inside!’ It is another slant on things, almost making the Emperor’s actions to replace Vader completely empathizable and reasonable (after all, he’s a target for assassination). For any person who was a fan of both characters, they might become split and stick to one, over the other. Already, Vader has changed as a character into someone some may say is weak/gullible now, which can seem to ill-fit the films as we used to see them, though maybe that long-suffering patience is still there. Patience? What patience? Well he obviously does have it, bubbling there underneath. The old (pre-prequels) Vader had it, though I guess if this new (post-prequels) Vader acts too soon, some of that patience will seem eroded. [Edit: though it may be said Anakin seemed a little bereft of patience, in that case maybe Vader, by the time of the OT, gained a lot of it (I know he has outbursts, but there's something deeper there than that as well).]
I guess one can still believe what they want to believe about what happened. I would buy the novel, but the above bothers me enough to steer clear of it for the time being. Still, other aspects of it are bound to be interesting, and it sounds like the author did a good job. And this would have been hard to write.
*After having read the previous posts -- the whole affair must be convoluted, and as previous posters have suggested: Vader may have had to change his tune and atone for what he did, or who knows what will end up transpiring...it's a little hard to gauge without reading the book, as well as not knowing all that will end up happening between this book and other new ones in the future, as well as the LAS
Edit: I can also see this move by Vader as deft and cunning. Quite a complicated move, some may say smart, others may say a disloyal act (though the Emperor isn't perfect in that regard either).
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Trip
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
7/23 11:38pm
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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This plot sounds silly.
Also, bah @ "Jacob." He'll always be Rhett to me. 
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TalonCard
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Jan '01
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Date Posted:
7/23 11:47pm
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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There is more to the SA's role in all this that has yet to be revealed...
TC
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Death Star Guide: http://deathstar.njoe.com/Contents.htm GODV Guide: www.myuselessknowledge.com/swfa/main.html Hyperspace Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/taloncard jawajames...I'll let you know...
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CeiranHarmony
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/24 3:31am
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
7/24 4:01am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
CeiranHarmony
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more spoilers, I am close to the end of the bookj...
The first meeting of the Rebellion on Corellia with Garm, Bail and Mon is interrupted by Vader who just used the SA to gather the enemies of the empire in one spot to pic them off. vader captures Bail Organa, Mon Mothma and Garm Bel Iblis and transports them off to the death star to have Palpatine execute them personally there.
SA and Juno Eclipse escape after Proxy took on the holographic form of Obi Wan and attacked Vader. now Proxy is dead. SA and Juno go to the death star to rescue the rebellion leaders.
any west end games rpg stuff or other hints on the early rebellion and first meeting that we should check about for continuity here? the speaches of Bail and co sound as if I heard them before in some WEG source! declaration of the rebellion or part of it
[hl=black]
the author really did his homework it seems, though the capture by vader troubles me. [/hl]
ps: Vader quote after the SA asked if all was fake, that Vader never wanted to overthrow Palpatine: "Not with you!"
Leia was witness of the rebellions first meeting via hologram! so the tales comic of her diary where she found out the other way is noncanon after all.
The SA frees some wookiee slaves on the death star and starts an uprising (events only months before the death star novel!!!)
The Death Star has a cold thin breathable athmosphere for the wookiee workers on the outside of the hull.
the rebel symbol, the rebel crest, the red winged bird is the symbol of Starkiller and his Jedi father, who had it on a carpet hangin from the wall on Kashyyyk. now we know the origin 
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www.njoe.com (Govsec Author)
"Less is more!" Union
"Make Love, not Clone War."
Starkiller vs. Skywalker vs. Death Star = The Force Unleashed
My life is an Idiots Array, PURE SABBACC
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CeiranHarmony
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/24 4:21am
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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I finished the book and the finale was AWESOME BREATHTAKING SWEET!
I won´t spoil it, as a bookseller myself, I say go buy it and read it. love it!
but I'll answer questions of course
now the only major thing that really bothers me is, The Emperor and Vader know that Bail Organa, Garm Bel Iblis and Mon Mothma are rebels and how does this work with the later EU pre-ANH? Wasn´t Bail not suspected and died on Alderaan? that's the only weird thing... aside from that, all is well.
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"Less is more!" Union
"Make Love, not Clone War."
Starkiller vs. Skywalker vs. Death Star = The Force Unleashed
My life is an Idiots Array, PURE SABBACC
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DaggerSword
Registered:
Mar '08
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Date Posted:
7/24 4:49am
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
- Date Edited:
7/24 4:50am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DaggerSword
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Well in the ANH novel, the planet Alderaan has as good defenses as any other world in the core, which made for a good demonstration of the Death Star's power, according to Vader. It's possible that, going by movie canon only, Bail was exiled/isolated on Alderaan after this event, protected from Imperial retaliation by said defenses. His daughter replacing him as a Senator for Alderaan and their sector, might come about as a result of this, if the Emperor and co feel she's out of the loop and not another Rebel.
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CeiranHarmony
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
7/24 5:33am
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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DaggerSword posted:
Well in the ANH novel, the planet Alderaan has as good defenses as any other world in the core, which made for a good demonstration of the Death Star's power, according to Vader. It's possible that, going by movie canon only, Bail was exiled/isolated on Alderaan after this event, protected from Imperial retaliation by said defenses. His daughter replacing him as a Senator for Alderaan and their sector, might come about as a result of this, if the Emperor and co feel she's out of the loop and not another Rebel.
good idea, though Leia is save for sure, I still wonder how this works with Lord Tion and others pre-ANH visiting Bail on Alderaan etc. the whole stuff that implies the Imperials did not know about Bail. Maybe Vader and Palpatine kept it to themselves in order to not reveal that the rebel threat is a true one? I hope this gets explained
last scene of the book: Kashyyyk the former home of Jacob "Starkiller" Nion. His fathers name was Kento Nion. Leia proposes to use the Nion bird emblem as the rebel alliance banner of hope. Juno eclipse survives, as does General Kota and the rebel Senators.
ps: battledamaged Vader was awesome and worth it hehe
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www.njoe.com (Govsec Author)
"Less is more!" Union
"Make Love, not Clone War."
Starkiller vs. Skywalker vs. Death Star = The Force Unleashed
My life is an Idiots Array, PURE SABBACC
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
7/24 6:03am
Subject:
RE: The Official The Force Unleashed (Novel & Graphic Novel) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
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CeiranHarmony posted:
ps: battledamaged Vader was awesome and worth it hehe
Explain, please. 
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