Author Topic: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Ackbar_Van_Gungan  1297 posts
Registered: Oct '04
6318_Ackbar
Date Posted: 11/19/08 2:16pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
PointGiven posted:

Question for anyone else who read the issue:

In the end when Lucien is with the farmer Jedi on the moon, did anyone else think the tall black, white bearded Jedi was Jolee Bindo? Cuz I sure did


It's been a while since I played KOTOR so it crossed my mind briefly but I dismissed as "just because he's dark skinned doesn't make him the other dark skinned character in KOTOR"
The more relevant point is in the left side of that frame where you see:

THE FREAKING SWEET HAT

-The Rebel Gungan

 

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Ackbar_Van_Gungan  1297 posts
Registered: Oct '04
6318_Ackbar
Date Posted: 11/19/08 2:26pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Zorrixor posted:
Hmm...

I'm not sure what to feel. Part of me agrees about it being somewhat anti-climactic, but the other part of me knows that was inevitable no matter what happened.

And another part of me wonders whether this is just the tip of the iceberg, if DH are confident KOTOR sales figures warrant another mega arc like this. For, in such a case, this could very well be the Episode I to a much more sinister plot (*cough* Kreia *cough*).

I believe the references to Sion and the Lord of Pain, etc, are almost certainly an OOU fan service more than anything... but... there is just the potential for something more sinister going on. Haazen was potentially working to establish the Malachor Three. In the ESB to KOTOR's current ANH, I could possibly see the "real bad guys" behind all this being revealed as the group who warped Haazen in the first place.

Only time will tell. Bring on the next arc!



It could be like Episode I or Episode IV where we have yet to get into the heart of things.

The only issue with that is, Haazen didn’t seem like there was anyone but him involved, which makes his independent use of the Darth Sion name all the stranger.

Who is to say there wasn’t something in that box of tricks that let him survive the explosion or transfer his consciousness, etc. Haazen could be no more dead than Lucien was. He could still meet up with the Malachor 3 at some point in the future. Or he could still be Sion… I need to reread Sion’s entry again.
Something about being struck down, exploding with rage, etc.


It will be definitely interesting to see where things go from here. I’m more of a fan of the big arcs than the AOTW stuff but I recognize the need to hide the resolution of Vindication in the previews to upcoming issues.

-The Rebel Gungan

 

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Zorrixor  4304 posts
Registered: Sep '04
42757_Prince Xizor
Date Posted: 11/19/08 2:52pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4) - Date Edited: 11/19/08 2:52pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
Ackbar_Van_Gungan posted:
The only issue with that is, Haazen didn’t seem like there was anyone but him involved, which makes his independent use of the Darth Sion name all the stranger.

Who is to say there wasn’t something in that box of tricks that let him survive the explosion or transfer his consciousness, etc. Haazen could be no more dead than Lucien was. He could still meet up with the Malachor 3 at some point in the future. Or he could still be Sion… I need to reread Sion’s entry again.


I wondered the same thing.

He had a warehouse full of Sith stuff in that building. Its entirely feasible he "died" but managed to stash his consciousness inside a suit of armour somewhere (Nihilus) before finally passing into the big black beyond.

Pity that if that was the case it'll no doubt will be months before we'd find out.

 

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Master_Keralys  6378 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered: Oct '03
39907_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 11/19/08 2:55pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4) - Date Edited: 11/19/08 3:04pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Master_Keralys
Jeff - those are fairly standard Jedi robes of the day. I can't find a screencap at the moment, but those are pretty standard black robes for Jedi at this point. I never had Jolee Bindo or my character wear anything else unless I had very good reason to, because they just look stinking cool. Especially with Bindo using a purple lightsaber. mischief

Charles, have you read the issue yet? I'm not surprised the decision bothers you (we all know you think that being a member of the order is the best thing possible here), but Zayne's not done being a Jedi. Just a Jedi Knight, and his summary of why at the end is immensely accurate and satisfying. It's perfectly in character for him.

That is not Lucien's lightsaber, which was also destroyed in the conclusion of things at the Draay estate. This is a distinctly new one. If nothing else, you can tell because Lucien's has spikes and this one doesn't. They're different in every other way, too, though. This is a nice one.

This didn't feel particularly anticlimactic to me, and the only thing I wish were different at all is that I do wish the Alek stuff had happened on page.

Brilliant issue. Vindication is an amazing end to the opening arc of KotOR. Immensely tightly plotted.

One little thing I liked: The obvious madness of Haazen. He rambles to himself and to everyone else. He's a nutcase, and a thoroughly repressed one who's just rather giddy that he doesn't have to hide anymore. Also: grossly self-delusional. His monologue before the final "battle" between Zayne and Lucien was priceless. And his utter confusion when Zayne flies away. "They - they flew away. But how? Who did that?" Perfect. Utter hilarity, too: nothing makes sense to the fellow at this point, and he's really starting to demonstrate that for all his scheming, he's still rather pathetic when it comes to actually doing stuff.

Other various points: Zayne essentially redeeming Lucien FTW.

Zayne's dialogue throughout = win.

Gryph's role thoroughly excellent.

That Zayne got to con Gryph this time for the greater end is perfect.

The opening page, and the one with the destruction of the Draay estate, and the one at the end. BEAUTIFUL.

"The Force... does not want me dead. It does not want me happy, but it does not want me dead."


DO NOT READ THIS ONE BEFORE THE ISSUE:
"They're so busy with their big worries -- the little people slip through the cracks. And it's only going to get worse. That's not why I wanted to be a Jedi. Besides-- it's not just the Covenant that decides who lives and who dies. Jedi have to do it every day. Even if I get good at the rest of it -- I'll never be good at that."

applause

Last but not least, Lucien's internal monologue was simply beautiful writing.

BRAVO, Mr. Miller!

 

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SithStarSlayer  8619 posts
Registered: Oct '03
40005_Quinlan Vos
Date Posted: 11/19/08 3:20pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Grey1 posted:
Some things I forgot...

- Lucien's exile planet: As I mentioned the Jedi there wearing Obi-Wan robes, and Lucien mentions the future after coming tribulations, it seems as if this might be an important core of the Jedi Order after Nihilus. Also, I like how Lucien and his new friends are all about facing the future with humility like Krynda wished for - with simple servant's robes.

- Zayne leaving the Jedi: In the same vein, the fact that Zayne isn't technically a Jedi opens all doors for a happy end with the Exile still being the final Jedi and Zayne living to a high age, something some of us were afraid of wouldn't happen because KOTOR 2 explicitly has the whole Order dead.

How can any of them survive? We can forget about Zayne for now; since he's got coverage, it's their continued existence that will REALLY fly in the face of the Exhile being the last one. Unless that was hubris all along.

Draay's end, comes across as little more than a Jedi version of Darth Millennial...


***

Now we have the Jedi Order, the Revanchists, Jedi Covenant and Draay's new psuedo-Jedi crew... am I missing any other splinter-groups? tongue

 

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Ackbar_Van_Gungan  1297 posts
Registered: Oct '04
6318_Ackbar
Date Posted: 11/19/08 3:38pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
SithStarSlayer posted:


How can any of them survive? We can forget about Zayne for now; since he's got coverage, it's their continued existence that will REALLY fly in the face of the Exhile being the last one. Unless that was hubris all along.

Draay's end, comes across as little more than a Jedi version of Darth Millennial...


***

Now we have the Jedi Order, the Revanchists, Jedi Covenant and Draay's new psuedo-Jedi crew... am I missing any other splinter-groups? tongue


There is still plenty of time for Nihilus to nom nom nom Draay's moon. I do wonder who the other Jedi are and how they got the hat.

It could be as simple as saying that they are no longer Jedi but a monastic farming community of disillusioned Force-users.


-The Rebel Gungan

 

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Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 11/19/08 4:01pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
The whole idea of the Exile being the Last Jedi is pretty much nonsensical even in the context of the second video game.

 

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RevantheJediMaster  2439 posts
Registered: Jun '05
40334_Boba Fett
Date Posted: 11/19/08 4:10pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Charlemagne19 posted:
The whole idea of the Exile being the Last Jedi is pretty much nonsensical even in the context of the second video game.


Perhaps, it would be more appropriate to say that the Exile was the last Jedi the Sith knew of or the last Jedi that they saw as posing a threat.

 

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JohnJacksonMiller  385 posts
Title: Writer:
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Registered: May '05
44263_Carth Onasi
Date Posted: 11/19/08 4:16pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Thanks for the kind words, folks. I'll probably have some thoughts on the ish on my blog tomorrow, but to something Jeff had asked...

"How certain was Zayne that the Kressh gauntlet would protect Lucien from the turbolaser blasts?" We left it for readers to interpret, but if you imagine the exchange as simply "You get the Gauntlet from Haazen. I'll get you and Gryph clear -- and I'll deal with him," then Zayne may not know exactly what Lucien has in mind. The control device and Gauntlet are on the same hand -- with the Gauntlet gone, Zayne might have expected Lucien to then engage Haazen in melee until the Jedi arrived. If Zayne had hung onto the control device (which he dropped), the turbolasers wouldn't have entered into it.

 

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Bly  1044 posts
Registered: Mar '05
39854_Clone Commander Bly
Date Posted: 11/19/08 4:20pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
So does the conclusion of this uber-arc mean we might finally see Rohmagol resolved? tongue

 

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Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 11/19/08 4:31pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Yeah, I'm very fond of Zayne the Jedi and while I like Gryph as his partner....eh the execution of this arc's conclusion seemed anticlimatic.

Lucien also got off light.

 

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JediAlly  3308 posts
Registered: Oct '00
6537_Green Lightsaber
Date Posted: 11/19/08 4:38pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4) - Date Edited: 11/19/08 4:41pm (1 edits total) Edited By: JediAlly
I was actually expecting the "Zayne" luck to spring one more time. Zayne eludes Lucien and ends up with Haazen. Haazen does his indoctrination, but Zayne sensed Lucien performing a leap slash on him. At the end, Zayne rolls out of the way and instead of Zayne going to pieces, Haazen does.

As for the ending, though, I'm left wondering about it.

I was so hoping for Zayne to be called forth to the Jedi Council, where they offer to make him a knight, and he tells them what they can do with the offer. None of them thought he was innocent. Not even Vandar, and he knew Zayne the longest. The only ones who stuck by him were Gryph, Jarael, Camper, and to a lesser extent Alek/Malak and Rohlan.

As for the Revanchist, Zayne could have said something like this, "I've seen what the Mandalorians are capable off. In turning down the Council's offer, I'm also turning down any offer you might be wanting to make to me, Alek. I will say this about the conflict with the Mandalorians - I don't care what those of you on the Council say, ignoring the cries for help from those under siege by the Mandalorains is wrong." Sorta like what Nat Skywalker said about the Mon Cal's plight in the Legacy series.

As for Lucien, it seems as if he has created yet another covenant. One that was aimed at remaining hidden and surviving whatever calamities strike the galaxy and the Jedi. Almost along the lines of the Fallanassi. It also seems as if he flipped the bird at the Jedi, the Sith, and the galaxy in general, saying he's finished with being concerned about them. Not the fate I think he deserved, but still... I have to wonder if this covenant exists in the Legacy era, because if it does and and Cade knew or learns about it, he just might join them.

 

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Leto II  11805 posts
Registered: Jan '00
42114_Jones Attacked
Date Posted: 11/19/08 4:57pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4) - Date Edited: 11/19/08 4:58pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Leto II
Damn all you lucky bastards who've already picked up this issue -- this one sounds like the last recent BSG episode in terms of impact, and I still have to wait for it to ship out in about another week-ish.

Die, all of you.

 

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Indigo45879  57 posts
Registered: Oct '08
43279_Sith Trooper
Date Posted: 11/19/08 5:41pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
i can't believe how hard it is for me to find new issues where i live. Right now I got the first legacy vector a WEEK ago. I'll be lucky if i get this before december. cry

 

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Rogue_Follower  8535 posts
Title: Manager:
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Registered: Nov '03
6468_Blackhole
Date Posted: 11/19/08 6:12pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
JediAlly posted:
As for Lucien, it seems as if he has created yet another covenant. One that was aimed at remaining hidden and surviving whatever calamities strike the galaxy and the Jedi. Almost along the lines of the Fallanassi. It also seems as if he flipped the bird at the Jedi, the Sith, and the galaxy in general, saying he's finished with being concerned about them. Not the fate I think he deserved, but still... I have to wonder if this covenant exists in the Legacy era, because if it does and and Cade knew or learns about it, he just might join them.


Something like a "Hidden Temple," perhaps? mischief

 

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