Author Topic: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Sinrebirth  19015 posts
Title: Sith Emperor of the SWC
Registered: Nov '04
47748_Dath Vectivus
Date Posted: 11/25/08 6:37am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Not as far as I'm aware. Darth Sion is a title which, as far as we're aware, and this is per the KotoR Campaign Guard, already belongs to a Marauder who served under Exar Kun...

 

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DarthStymi  449 posts
Registered: Jan '02
49037_Imperial Commando (80409)
Date Posted: 11/25/08 8:12am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
A question unrelated to the current discussion: how much time has passed for Zayne since issue #1?

Three year journey for the readers, but how long was Zayne on the run?

 

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MercenaryAce  2814 posts
Registered: Aug '05
8117_Y-Wing Pilot
Date Posted: 11/25/08 8:20am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Sinrebirth posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
I don't see that as likely at all. I can't imagine the Mandalorians, a single species, defeating the Republic at all.

This isn't the Confederacy vs. an Unarmed Republic.

The Republic has fleets and so on.


Before the Republic was even invaded, the Mandalorians had secured territory larger that 'dwarved' Hutt Space, according to the NEC. They held worlds around the Outer and Mid Rim, such as Shogun, Kerest, Togoria, Mandalore, Concord Dawn, Malachor, Cathar, Althir etc. They weren't one species, but hundreds, all subsumed into the Mandalorians.

And, even then, they were the Neo-Crusaders, who eliminated individuality in the Mandalorians and mass produced armour, ship designs and made whole hordes 'Mandalorian' at a time. I doubt the actual Mandalorians, whom followed the Resol'nare, the Crusaders who fought for Exar Kun, and evolved into the Protectors, were that numerous, though, at least comparable to LotF levels at most - a dozen million, at best.

Either way - the Mandalorian Clans dominated a massive amount of territory before they even started their invasion, pushing from Onderon to Duro, from Mandalore on Taris through to Myrkr, and attacking Iridonia and further into the Inner Rim, and that's before we even get placements for other worlds, such as Eres II - they even attacked Bespin, all the way around the Rim. They would have won the war had Revan not intervened. Simple.

There, that tangent is ended, and we can go back to the actual comic discussion. tongue


Wait!

Don't forget that at least one Mandolorian in the KOTOR comic was an ex-Republic soldier, so they are recuiting as they go as well.

 

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Leto II  11842 posts
Registered: Jan '00
42114_Jones Attacked
Date Posted: 11/25/08 10:58am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4) - Date Edited: 11/25/08 11:00am (1 edits total) Edited By: Leto II
There were a couple of Basilisk-riders on Taris who mentioned being ex-Republic pilots/crewers/soldiers too, as I recall.


DarthStymi posted:
A question unrelated to the current discussion: how much time has passed for Zayne since issue #1?

Three year journey for the readers, but how long was Zayne on the run?

According to the inner-cover timeline-dating, it's still 3,963 BBY; the series began the previous year, in 3,964 BBY.

Someone in the letters column recently complained about the timeline having not advancing further nearly forty issues in, though looking at the stories, there's not as much elongation between many of the events as one might think. JJM discusses the "elasticity" of the timeline in his most recent production notes for this issue.

 

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Kenobi_Kid  1810 posts
Registered: May '05
6455_Ewan the Prankster
Date Posted: 11/25/08 11:42am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
DarthRotten posted:
And I got the feeling we're supposed to know what planet he's on at the end (ie from the games)but I don't know it.
I've played both games, but I have no idea what planet he could be on. If I were to take a wild guess, I would say one of Mustafar's moons, since there's a huge red planet in the sky above.

 

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Master_Drock 
Registered: Oct '08
42090_Darth Revan
Date Posted: 11/25/08 2:03pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
I like what I have heard from this one. There are some things that bother me like the fact I'm not thrilled with another secret Jedi group out there, rolling_eyes , and personally I hope that's not how the order got rebuilt. Personally I always wanted that to be done by Revan, Bastila, the Exile and anybody else from the games that happened to survive. All of them seemed to have learned the mistakes the old order had, and all of them were willing to not blindly follow it at times.

Now for a few things I have thought about as I have read over the last pages of this thread.

Some people have speculated that one picture looks like Jolee, but that would conflict with what we know about him being away for a long time on Kashyyyk...but there has always been something that has bothered me about that. In KotOR we find out near the end after it's revealed that your Revan that Jolee has known about it all along. So that begs the question, just how did he know that if he's been away from the Jedi all that time, and even a lot of the non-council members of the order don't seem to know who you are? I don't got the timeline mastered that well, but I would have thought he was self exiled on the planet probably since before Revan was born or at the very least since he was very young. Unless I'm missing something (which could be possible and quite embarrassing for me), Jolee is more powerful than we know, or he really wasn't on Kashyyyk all that time it doesn't seem to make sense.

As far as how evil Revan was compared to the Mandalorians or the True Sith. There is no way to be sure, but my personal beliefs, and it's all they are based only partially on what we know, is that Revan started out as a good Jedi with the best of intentions. What we know seems to indicate that. I never bought the he never fell stuff. I could see him as actually being too powerful and smart for his own good and that in part leading to his downfall due too the hubris and overconfidence that could probably leads to for all but the most wise of people. When he did get a taste of what unethical methods could do and later an even greater taste of the dark side I wouldn't doubt that he did what countless other Jedi have done including people like Count Dooku and maybe in some ways Jacan. He thought he could be above the dark side and or use it to his advantage. Of course the dark side being the dark side that is pretty much the dumbest thing a Jedi could ever do as nothing can control it as it seems to exist to make mockeries out of things that use it, to cause as much misery, hate, and suffering to everything as possible, and finally completely consume the person that falls to it one way or another. It might be saying something about him and giving him credit for him being powerful and willful enough to be the only one to resist and hold onto as much of his original purpose as he did even if that would have probably went away too with time or been twisted into something completely evil thus defeating the effort. It was just too bad he couldn't have a little more wisdom than he did. Everybody else seemed to be completely corrupted. So in a sense he was just as bad as everybody else, or would have gotten to that point. He just did it in a different way. With that said I think he made the right choice by going to help the republic. You can't sit around forever and do nothing because of fear of what might be or some future visions. There is a difference between being reasonable cautious and being paralyzed. If Star Wars has taught us anything about it it's how unreliable visions can be when the future is always in motion or how hard they are to interpret in the first place. Sometimes you just have to do your best and do what's right as well as you can and leave it at that. Personally I also never thought that his original personality was wiped away. It seemed to me to bes more a mask and in a lot of ways I think a pretty thin one that if you consider in retrospect how much of his original self seemed to show through at times. He started remembering things he used to know as time when on anyway. In a sense maybe destiny gave him a chance to be again the person he was before the dark side twisted it, but with a greater understanding and wisdom to back it up than before.

I don't mind that Zayne didn't stick with the order. It does fit his personality better, and it does seem he will be able to better help people in his own way now. Zayne is too good for the order at this point. Maybe this will mean he won't be hunted when the purge comes, but I'm not sure if I even want Zayne popping up post KotOR2. Either way I could probably deal with though.

Overall I really liked the plot and despite a few tings I don't like here and there I'm happy with this issue.

 

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Charlemagne19  26817 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 11/25/08 2:52pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
I don't mind that Zayne didn't stick with the order. It does fit his personality better, and it does seem he will be able to better help people in his own way now. Zayne is too good for the order at this point. Maybe this will mean he won't be hunted when the purge comes, but I'm not sure if I even want Zayne popping up post KotOR2. Either way I could probably deal with though.

Personally, I encourage Dark Horse to ignore the whole business about the Exile being the Last Jedi. It's a plot that diminishes luke and I hope there's at least a couple of thousand Jedi Knights in hiding afterwards to explain why the KOTOR MMORPG has a huge number of them.

 

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RevantheJediMaster  2439 posts
Registered: Jun '05
40334_Boba Fett
Date Posted: 11/25/08 3:45pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Charlemagne19 posted:
I don't mind that Zayne didn't stick with the order. It does fit his personality better, and it does seem he will be able to better help people in his own way now. Zayne is too good for the order at this point. Maybe this will mean he won't be hunted when the purge comes, but I'm not sure if I even want Zayne popping up post KotOR2. Either way I could probably deal with though.

Personally, I encourage Dark Horse to ignore the whole business about the Exile being the Last Jedi. It's a plot that diminishes luke and I hope there's at least a couple of thousand Jedi Knights in hiding afterwards to explain why the KOTOR MMORPG has a huge number of them.



Well, they could just say that the Lost Jedi (the ones the Exile trained in KOTOR II and surviving Jedi like Bastila) rebuilt the Jedi Order anew and that it had gathered enough strength by this time to have so many Jedi, although this would be pretty hard to explain given that the Jedi of this era were supposed to have gone to war with the True Sith. I hope there isn't a couple of thousand Jedi knights hanging around because that would diminish the story of the Exile to a huge degree. Sure, we all realize the Exile wasn't the only Jedi around at that time given the survival of some of council members like Vrook and we do know that Bastila survives, but what's important about the Exile is that she is one of the last Jedi and it was her who saved the galaxy from the Sith. If Kreia's predictions are true as well then the Jedi she trained (the Lost Jedi) are the ones who are primarily responsible for the reconstruction of the Jedi Order. There needn't be a couple of thousand Jedi hiding around during the KOTOR II era in order for both the story of Luke and the Exile to maintain their integrity.

 

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Grey1  1726 posts
Registered: Nov '00
44285_Ebon Hawk
Date Posted: 11/25/08 6:26pm Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Grey1 posted:
His private moon is orbiting a Mustafar-like planet that hangs in the sky, I'm not sure if that has to mean/foreshadow anything. However, in personal canon, we can still assume that he started down the dark path and that it dominates his destiny forever... grin I was one of the first to invest into this theory, so I'll defend it until JJM explicitly states that he never, ever thought about Lucien being similar to Sion until the fan speculation was there, and that he only did these final two Sion mentions as a tease or a nod or something. It's not hard to do, is it? wink
Apparently it isn't hard, and we can finally rest the point thanks to JJM's blog. Thanks for that, now my theory can rest in peace.

Still, the blog seems to imply that Lucien=Sion wasn't totally out of the question originally as the creative team kept their story options open for as long as possible (like when Celeste was said to have a trap door that would have made her the Exile, if needed)... if that's true, I wonder at which point the story became definitive enough to rule out the Sion possibility. And if (conspiracy ahoy) it had anything to do with the Exile becoming female, Zayne no longer being able to become the Exile and Lucien becoming Sion for maximum story payoff in The Sith Lords making no sense anymore... beatup

ok, ok, I'll stop it right here...

 

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Vrook_Lamar  984 posts
Registered: May '08
6210_Max Rebo
Date Posted: 11/26/08 7:48am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Grey1 posted:
And if (conspiracy ahoy) it had anything to do with the Exile becoming female, Zayne no longer being able to become the Exile and Lucien becoming Sion for maximum story payoff in The Sith Lords making no sense anymore... beatup

ok, ok, I'll stop it right here...


Seeing as how Darth Sion had a sadistic crush on the female Exile, I'm glad that didn't happen.

 

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DarthAdamentum  662 posts
Registered: Jan '08
45269_Airborne Clone Trooper
Date Posted: 11/26/08 8:58am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Grey1 posted:
Grey1 posted:
His private moon is orbiting a Mustafar-like planet that hangs in the sky, I'm not sure if that has to mean/foreshadow anything. However, in personal canon, we can still assume that he started down the dark path and that it dominates his destiny forever... grin I was one of the first to invest into this theory, so I'll defend it until JJM explicitly states that he never, ever thought about Lucien being similar to Sion until the fan speculation was there, and that he only did these final two Sion mentions as a tease or a nod or something. It's not hard to do, is it? wink
Apparently it isn't hard, and we can finally rest the point thanks to JJM's blog. Thanks for that, now my theory can rest in peace.

Still, the blog seems to imply that Lucien=Sion wasn't totally out of the question originally as the creative team kept their story options open for as long as possible (like when Celeste was said to have a trap door that would have made her the Exile, if needed)... if that's true, I wonder at which point the story became definitive enough to rule out the Sion possibility. And if (conspiracy ahoy) it had anything to do with the Exile becoming female, Zayne no longer being able to become the Exile and Lucien becoming Sion for maximum story payoff in The Sith Lords making no sense anymore... beatup

ok, ok, I'll stop it right here...


zayne can end up as nihilus or revan... IMHO

 

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Grey1  1726 posts
Registered: Nov '00
44285_Ebon Hawk
Date Posted: 11/26/08 11:19am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
I know, it never stops...

 

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Lord_Hydronium  6301 posts
Title: Literature Gardener
Registered: Jun '02
15597_Vergere
Date Posted: 11/26/08 11:28am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4) - Date Edited: 11/26/08 11:29am (1 edits total) Edited By: Lord_Hydronium
DarthAdamentum posted:
zayne can end up as...revan

No, he can't. If the fact that they are completely unlike wasn't enough, we've seen Revan in the comics.

 

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DarthAdamentum  662 posts
Registered: Jan '08
45269_Airborne Clone Trooper
Date Posted: 11/26/08 11:46am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Lord_Hydronium posted:
DarthAdamentum posted:
zayne can end up as...revan

No, he can't. If the fact that they are completely unlike wasn't enough, we've seen Revan in the comics.


you just never know...

 

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Carlis  129 posts
Registered: Jun '08
24185_Anakin Lego
Date Posted: 11/26/08 11:48am Subject: RE: Knights of the Old Republic #35, "Vindication" Part 4 (of 4)
Maybe Zayne turns into... Gryph!

shock

 

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