Jedi Council Forums - Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)

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Author	Topic: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
Grand Moff Jerjerrod Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 8/20/08 4:52pm Subject: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	I know I've been away from these forums for several years, but I just finished reading the LotF story arc and I am left with a really anti-climatic feeling in my stomach. When I first started into the arc and found that Jacen would be the next Sith Lord, I thought for sure that the EU would finally have a villain worth writing. Right on the back of Invincible, it even says, "But can even the Sword of the Jedi bring down one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time?". I think that somewhere along the line, the authors became too afraid of making a villain that was downright scary, powerful. Throughout the entire arc, even when Jacen was winning, it was by the skin of his teeth, and really at no time did he beat someone or a group down so badly that it made me, the reader of close to 100 EU novels, go, "wow, this guy really is BA... bring on the Luke showdown". It seemed that despite the novels inferring that Caedus was even greater than his grandfather, there was extreme hesitation to make him really standout as such. Yes he killed MJS, but barely, and he was being beaten down the whole fight. Jaina... don't even get me started. Either the battles were poorly written, or they just didn't do the hype justice. This battle has been set up since the NJO books where the twin prophecy got us wondering, and then this arc just built it farther. All that time spend with Fett and the extra backstory of him written into the story to culminate in her trying to snipe him... and failing. No beskar, no crushgaunts, no warrior rage, no nothing that supposedly would make this fight so much different, just a lame standard fight with some cool imagery of needles sticking out of Caedus' face. They should have set the tone of Caedus with him killing outright the group of Jedi sent after him on Coruscant when he had Allanna save maybe one who could bring back the news that they had succeeded at planting the tracker, but at an enormous cost. Also, we know that Luke is rediculous, but you really emasculate your primary villain when Luke can pin him in a chair helpless. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I was ready for a Palpatine caliber villain that would really test the resolve of the council and take it to the limit. As for the writing of Darth Caedus, I'm just disappointed. The battles, the usage of battle meditation, Caedus' use of pain, the show of his "mastery" of the force, everything.
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_Catherine_ Registered: Jun '07	Date Posted: 8/20/08 4:54pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	Yeah, it sucked. -----signature----- There ain't no rust on the happiness bus.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 8/20/08 5:02pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	Actually, what's interesting is that for several books, despite Jacen being a Dark Jedi. They actually continued to allow him to walk around the Jedi Temple, willy nilly.
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Ulicus Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 8/20/08 5:02pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	Yeah... I agree completely Jerjerrod. -----signature----- This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though? An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense. Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 8/20/08 5:07pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside) - Date Edited: 8/20/08 5:08pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	The authors just forgot that claiming Jacen to be uber-powerful and a great threat isn't going to work if we don't see him to be uber-powerful and a great threat. It's like they never got the courage to hit the pedal and unleash him. The end result was a feeble Sith Lord who didn't really do all that much Sith stuff. Few clear wins and several major scalps to his name would have helped immensely. DR got it's Sith Lord, didn't have guts to really use him and then killed him off quickly. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker, the new Jar-Jar!
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Boba Frett Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 8/20/08 5:23pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	What worked for the clasic trilogy was that we had a big, major force with big, major players for the opposition, and we knew that they would be around for a while. What undermined Caedus was that he was a flash in the pan, so to speak. It WAS anti-climactic. It would have been better for him to have remained in power and built up his armada, instead of being just a fallen pseudo-hero who whines too much. -----signature----- Skeet Skywalker's originator. Scoundrel. [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=2954675&start=2995407] Darth Skeet: Short Son of Skywalker[/link] [link=http://pub79.ezboard.com/bgenxcite]GenXcite[/link]
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 8/20/08 5:35pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside) - Date Edited: 8/20/08 5:36pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	It's not like DR couldn't have had their own Sith Lord keep standing for a new book series beyond LotF. I doubt that LFL put a gun to their temple (figuratively) and say "Kill him or else..." And with whom they are going to replace him as a villain? Daala? White Eyes? It doesn't seem to make much sense to kill him off so quickly as the replacements will be lesser characters. DR shouldn't have made Jacen a Sith Lord when they didn't dare to truly use him. It's no good to dream big dreams and get cold feet when you should try to make them true. If they wanted a powerful and terrible Sith Lord, they should have gone for it. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker, the new Jar-Jar!
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 8/20/08 5:36pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	Yeah, LotF was pretty horrible on most accounts, wasn't it? Luke could beat Caedus, and did, on at least one or two occasions- then they write him out of the finale! And Jaina ends up just using a good old lightaber, no Mando equipment or beskar or whatever, to finish the job, so her sidetrip to train with the Mandos was a waste of time, but the Mandos were pretty useless the whole series anyway. I'm not entirely sure how they could've written Jacen up to be a credible villain, what with super-powerful Luke around, and they tried to take Luke out of the equation to allow for a supposedly climatic duel, but... it just didn't work. And ugh, the ending, if you could call it that. There was potential, but... it just never went anywhere. I'm just glad I didn't waste money on the hardcovers. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 8/20/08 5:39pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	To be honest, I'm not sure I could stand another 3 books of Jacen Solo's idiocy.
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Whizkid Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 8/20/08 5:40pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	I wish Jacen would have "won" LotF and survived as Sith. Would have given the EU a credible steady bad guy. -----signature----- "Only a Sith deals in Absolutes" "Do, or do not. There is no try"
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 8/20/08 5:43pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	Whizkid posted: I wish Jacen would have "won" LotF and survived as Sith. Would have given the EU a credible steady bad guy. Yea, I don't think so. Mostly because I don't think Jacen was credible in LOTF.
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Whizkid Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 8/20/08 6:03pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	Charlemagne19 posted: Whizkid posted: I wish Jacen would have "won" LotF and survived as Sith. Would have given the EU a credible steady bad guy. Yea, I don't think so. Mostly because I don't think Jacen was credible in LOTF. He was on his way. -----signature----- "Only a Sith deals in Absolutes" "Do, or do not. There is no try"
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Darth-Ghost Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 8/20/08 6:09pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	The Jacen of INVINCIBLE should have been fully formed in SACRIFICE, or at least INFERNO. It's how they dragged on keeping "Jacen=Caedus=Sith=Mara's Killer" a secret for so long, that dragging out is what really brought LOTF down.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 8/20/08 6:11pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	Darth-Ghost posted: The Jacen of INVINCIBLE should have been fully formed in SACRIFICE, or at least INFERNO. It's how they dragged on keeping "Jacen=Caedus=Sith=Mara's Killer" a secret for so long, that dragging out is what really brought LOTF down. For me, Jacen Solo was never credible as Darth Caedus. Because half the time he was incompetent (not accepting surrenders, acting horrendously evil to undermine his position, and screwing up victories) while the other half...he was just outright insane.
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 8/20/08 6:33pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	Yeah, in Invincible, Caedus was finally starting to come together as a credible villain... but he was still nowhere near Luke's level. Take the visions for instance- Luke was manipulating Caedus' visions so thorougly, for a good deal of the book, Caedus was too busy worrying about watching out for any Luke assassination attempts to do much else. Not that Caedus was all that competent an interrogator either, what with his temper. Though that kind of frenzied, paranoid state is exactly how Luke wanted him to be like, but still, it was such an indirect, convoluted approach. For most of the series, Caedus was losing or tying, and in Invincible he's "on the verge of ruling the galaxy" or something like that, though we never actually see the war much. Nine books of this idoicy was bad enough- another eight books probably would've been required for Caedus to actually become competent, and... how much longer could they keep dragging it out? That battle at Gilatter was a draw, Kuat was sorta a draw, and ended due to Caedus bombarding Kashyyyk, Fondor was a disaster, Centerpoint is gone forever, and... well, its just one mess after another. Not to mention there were occasional chances where, if they had been serious, they could captured, or killed Caedus, but... I guess the idea of sending a dozen Jedi Masters after Caedus never really occured to them. Heck, just Luke was enough, but... originally, the twins killing each other prophecy just seemed like another crazy, evil Vong idea, and now they turned out to be right. Good thing Anakin didn't have a twin at least. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 8/20/08 6:35pm Subject: RE: Disappointed with Caedus (spoilers inside)
	Nobody145 posted: I guess the idea of sending a dozen Jedi Masters after Caedus never really occured to them. Heck, just Luke was enough, but... originally, the twins killing each other prophecy just seemed like another crazy, evil Vong idea, and now they turned out to be right. Good thing Anakin didn't have a twin at least. Wouldn't Caedus just kill them all? Seriously, it's actually canon that 12 Jedi is no more effective than the most effective one as we saw with Palpatine. Mace only starts winning after the dead weight is gone.
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