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Topic:
Is Mandalore a Sith?
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cbagmjg
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
8/25 6:09pm
Subject:
Is Mandalore a Sith?
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What if the reason that Mandalore's not the real Mandalore is because a Sith killed and replaced him. Maybe it happened right after the Taung soldier picked up the mask or it was when the old Mandalore went to meet with a Sith?
Also, why do I get the feeling that Haazen's pressed his little red button before during Zayne's quest.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/25 6:29pm
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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Heh. The original successor to Indomitable isn't dead - it's through him that Canderous knows about the switcheroo. (Though I'm half hoping the crazy old taung was lying....)
What if Mandalore's Darth Sion? Revan beats him down and then binds him to his will on Malachor. 
Or maybe he's Darth Nihilus.
Visas: Just a Man(dalore), nothing more.
There's lots of different things they could go with. Still... I feel a bit sad that Mandalore isn't just, you know, the guy we thought he was. I liked the guy from TotJ. *Sniff* Mandalore the Ultimate being an imposter is an interesting idea but... I don't know, it seems a bit unnecessarily DUN DUN DUNNNish to me.
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cbagmjg
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
8/25 6:42pm
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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Ulicus posted:
Heh. The original successor to Indomitable isn't dead - it's through him that Canderous knows about the switcheroo. (Though I'm half hoping the crazy old taung was lying....)
What if Mandalore's Darth Sion? Revan beats him down and then binds him to his will on Malachor.
Or maybe he's Darth Nihilus.
Visas: Just a Man(dalore), nothing more.
There's lots of different things they could go with. Still... I feel a bit sad that Mandalore isn't just, you know, the guy we thought he was. I liked the guy from TotJ. *Sniff* Mandalore the Ultimate being an imposter is an interesting idea but... I don't know, it seems a bit unnecessarily DUN DUN DUNNNish to me.
Revan beats him down, then Kreia comes along and brings Barrison back to life, calling him Darth...Sion.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/25 7:25pm
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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So, I apologise if you think I'm hijacking your thread cbagmjg, but do you mind if I throw another question out there?
(I didn't want to make a new thread, and it's basically linked to what you're asking)
What do folks think about Mandalore the Ultimate not being the guy we thought he was? Like I said earlier I think it's an interesting idea... but the more I think about it, the more I mope the loss of the TotJ Mandalore I thought I was reading about.
We've now gone from one TotJ character in KotOR to none... and that seems like a shame. (Though it looks like we're getting a flashback to the TotJ era next issue, which'll be cool)
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Gratulor
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
8/25 8:10pm
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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I suspect he is the same soldier, and the one who told Canderous about this saw him as a traitor for allying them with the Sith again.
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_Catherine_
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
8/25 8:39pm
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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Ulicus posted:
So, I apologise if you think I'm hijacking your thread cbagmjg, but do you mind if I throw another question out there?
(I didn't want to make a new thread, and it's basically linked to what you're asking)
What do folks think about Mandalore the Ultimate not being the guy we thought he was? Like I said earlier I think it's an interesting idea... but the more I think about it, the more I mope the loss of the TotJ Mandalore I thought I was reading about.
We've now gone from one TotJ character in KotOR to none... and that seems like a shame. (Though it looks like we're getting a flashback to the TotJ era next issue, which'll be cool)
I assume there's a reason for this choice, and if it turns out to be a cool one, I'll be fine with the switch. If we never find out anything more than what we know right now, however, or the reason for not making them the same character turns out not to be very compelling, then yes, I'll be disappointed; I did enjoy having that one character link us to past stories.
Still, I have faith in JJM, so I'm hoping there's more to this story than it currently appears (same thing with Sion's apparent age).
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Jmacq1
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
8/26 4:18am
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
- Date Edited:
8/26 4:20am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jmacq1
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Well, they don't actually confirm or deny whether or not he's "the guy we thought he was, though." I'm not sure where folks are getting this absolute certainty that he's an impostor, but the way the KotOR CG is written there's still plenty of wiggle room.
Further, there's no indication either way in regards to whether or not the Mandalorians A: Know he's not the TotJ guy, or B: if they'd care even if he wasn't. A strong leader is a strong leader.
In other words, whether or not he's the TotJ guy, the "possible impostor" thing may not be as big a deal as some folks are making it out to be. They don't even make a point of noting whether or not Mandalore the Ultimate even claims to be the guy from TotJ.
Or to put it in (perhaps) another manner: It's not exactly presented in a way that makes it out to be a "big deal." It just says, "It's unknown if Mandalore the Ultimate is the Taung who claimed Mandalore the Indomitable's mantle at the end of the Great Sith War, or somebody else." That's about it.
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
8/26 4:34am
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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I think that the switch explains the activities of the Mandalorians better than the old one - although it does kind of give them another whitewash, making them quasi-victims that the nasty Sith used, instead of the invasion being more their own idea.
That said, the new Mandalore we saw in TotJ must be the weakest Mandalore we know - I mean, he just gave up his title with a whimper and the Sith didn't even bother to kill him?
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/26 4:39am
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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Jmacq1 posted:
Well, they don't actually confirm or deny whether or not he's "the guy we thought he was, though." I'm not sure where folks are getting this absolute certainty that he's an impostor, but the way the KotOR CG is written there's still plenty of wiggle room.
I appreciate that, but it being mentioned/brought up at all implies that they're going to do something with it. Otherwise, why bother?
Unless it is to justify a gratuitous unmasking scene in which MtU proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, who he is.
That'd be cool. 
Jmacq1 posted:
Further, there's no indication either way in regards to whether or not the Mandalorians A: Know he's not the TotJ guy
Isn't the entry for Canderous all about his surprise and how it worries him and stuff? I'll admit I'm getting this second hand. If folks knew, why would Canderous have needed to be told?
Jmacq1 posted:
B: if they'd care even if he wasn't. A strong leader is a strong leader.
You're right, but that's somewhat irrelevant to the issue of the only TotJ character in KotOR "no longer" being in KotOR. (If he's not)
There was something kinda... nifty... about the guy who found Mandalore's mask just happening to be an Ultimate Badass. I dunno. It appealed to me.
Jmacq1 posted:
It just says, "It's unknown if Mandalore the Ultimate is the Taung who claimed Mandalore the Indomitable's mantle at the end of the Great Sith War, or somebody else." That's about it.
So there's not the stuff about Canderous meeting that old taung who spins off a story of usurpers and Sith? 
I apologise if my understanding is completely out of wack, like I said, I'm only going with the second hand sources atm.
Still, either way, I'm looking forward to being able to peruse this guide myself. Only a couple more day now. 
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Jmacq1
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
8/26 6:40am
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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No, the Canderous stuff is in there. But even Canderous himself isn't sure if the old Taung was telling the truth or not. Truth be told, "Mandalore the Preserver's" helmet looks a lot less like Mandalore the Indomitable's helmet than Mandalore the Ultimate's does. 
I freely admit it's possible that the "Mandalore the Ultimate as an impostor" bit could very well end up significant (though I highly doubt he's a Sith), I'm just saying that the guide doesn't fully confirm or deny it in either direction, which makes the seeming certainty that he's a fake of some kind something that should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/26 7:05am
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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Jmacq1 posted:
No, the Canderous stuff is in there. But even Canderous himself isn't sure if the old Taung was telling the truth or not. Truth be told, "Mandalore the Preserver's" helmet looks a lot less like Mandalore the Indomitable's helmet than Mandalore the Ultimate's does.
Yeah... I'm assuming, at present, that Mandalore the Ultimate is forced to replace the illustrious helm at some point. Or at least give it a severe makeover.
Jmacq1 posted:
I freely admit it's possible that the "Mandalore the Ultimate as an impostor" bit could very well end up significant (though I highly doubt he's a Sith), I'm just saying that the guide doesn't fully confirm or deny it in either direction, which makes the seeming certainty that he's a fake of some kind something that should be taken with a grain of salt.
Fair dos. 
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
8/26 9:10am
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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Sounds to me like a way to paint Mandos as guiltless...or at least less guilty.
Brushing off the significant tie between the Mandos and the Sith.
"It's ok fanboys, you can express you passionate belief in Mando society...they never sided with the Sith...it was a traitor who led them astray!"
That's exactly what this sounds like.
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Jmacq1
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
8/26 10:20am
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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Ehn, that's hogwash anyway. They still followed him willingly (most of them, anyway). They'd only be "blameless" if the majority of their society said, "Nah, trying to conquer the galaxy for kicks doesn't sound right to me. We're not gonna follow you anywhere."
The "led astray by an impostor/Sith/Whatever" doesn't make them blameless, it just makes them ignorant/gullible/stupid/what-have-you.
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Zorrixor
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
8/26 10:36am
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
- Date Edited:
8/26 10:37am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Zorrixor
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Jedimarine posted:
Sounds to me like a way to paint Mandos as guiltless...or at least less guilty.
Brushing off the significant tie between the Mandos and the Sith.
"It's ok fanboys, you can express you passionate belief in Mando society...they never sided with the Sith...it was a traitor who led them astray!"
That's exactly what this sounds like.
Disturbingly I could actually see them doing that to let the fanbois play as Mandos and not feel bad, if the MMORPG rumours turn out to be true.
I'd like to think it's part of JJM's plan for detailing the Sith influence on causing the Mandalorian Wars though.
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Jmacq1
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
8/26 10:49am
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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We already have examples of Mandos that break the mold (to varying extents) in Rohlan and Canderous. That's all we need to justify heroic/anti-heroic/less evil Mandalorian PCs.
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
8/26 10:52am
Subject:
RE: Is Mandalore a Sith?
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Yes, but exceptions are exceptions.
I think this is one more step to make Mandos a staple hero.
an Anti-hero mind you...but a hero nonetheless.
They want you to think of Mandos as lovingly as you do scoundrel rogue smugglers.
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