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Topic:
The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
8/29 3:27pm
Subject:
The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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Share your feelings on this immortal conversation piece.
Do you want more Big Three, if so, how and why?
Do you want more other guys, if so, how and why?
What turns you on and off about both?
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RK_Striker_JK_5
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
8/29 3:40pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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I'll put in my two creds.
The big three didn't get me into SW. Their kids did. Therefore, the kids are more important to me.
Without the OT, there would be no YJK. But without the YJK, there wouldn't be me here on the boards. Simple as that.
Heck, without the YJK, there's a small-yet-quantifiable chance I wouldn't be on this physical plane...
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E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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Master_Keralys
Title: Lit Mod of Quantum Indeterminacy
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
8/29 3:57pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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Honestly, I think the big 3's story is done. (In a lot of ways, it was done as of the end of the OT, simply because authors have never been able to consistently develop them in a new direction.) So mostly, I want new characters. I like fresh directions; I like interesting and growing characters. Could the Big 3 be those?To some extent, yes. However, Luke is essentially the unstoppable Force at this point, and has a good grasp on himself and his power, and that makes him relatively boring. Han's story arc was done at the end of TESB, and only Leia really had a lot of potential left at that point (mostly because she hadn't really changed). I agree with things diz has said on these same points elsewhere of late. Are there interesting stories to tell about them? Maybe to some extent. Are there a lot more interesting stories to be told about a lot of other characters? Definitely.
I'll be honest, my absolute favorite Star Wars characters at this point are - in no particular order - Anakin Solo, Jacen Solo, Nom Anor, and Zayne Carrick. (The whole KotOR crew, including many of the game characters, really belongs on that list.) Not a one of the Big 3, and for good reason. These are the stories that I have loved, the characters that I have found compelling. Obi-Wan is the only movie character who even begins to approach the enjoyment I have of those characters, and he only in a few sources - the ones that really capture the best of Obi-Wan: RotS (novel and movie, but especially the former), and Luceno's treatments of him in CoD and LoE.
I'll take more new and interesting characters over more big 3 any day of the week.
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God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself.
The craziest story ever told.
The truest.
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
8/29 4:16pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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Charlemagne19 posted:
Share your feelings on this immortal conversation piece.
Do you want more Big Three, if so, how and why?
Do you want more other guys, if so, how and why?
What turns you on and off about both?
If the Big Three are well written, I want more of them. But if they are written like they were in most of LotF, then no thank you. As characters they are in need of a redemption after Invincible, but I expect we will just get more of the same.
I want more about characters on other eras, minus the Dark Times, which I think should be after the current ongoing series avoided until the Live TV series is up and running. So, more about KOTOR, New Sith Wars etc.
When it comes to characters in the main novel era beyond the Big Three, the best characters are gone and many of those who have been left have been harmed by the same bad characterization and bad plotting which has harmed the Big Three in my eyes. I would welcome couple of redemptions and resurrections.
And what comes to the last question, it's all about characterization, being truthful to the core of the character. If the authors would want to radically change established characters, I think they should be stopped by editors and instead encouraged and given the chance to develop new characters with those charasteristics they wanted to explore with already established figures.
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UltimateMandalore
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
8/29 4:28pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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Keep the Big three till they die.
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Mandalorians don't make threats, we make promises.
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Dunc T'racen
Registered:
Mar '00
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Date Posted:
8/29 4:28pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
- Date Edited:
8/29 4:29pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Dunc T'racen
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Other than Mara and Ben, most of the non-Big 3 characters don't really interest me. I don't mind having others in the books, if they fit the storyline and/or don't overwhelm it, but my main focus and interest has always been with the Skywalker/Solo (mainly post-ROTJ Skywalker) family.
Still, I certainly support having standalone books for other characters... I just have a hard time getting interested in them myself. My apathy is pretty strong: I like Zahn but could barely get through Outbound Flight, put down Jedi Twilight after one chapter and never got back to it, and when I took Dark Lord out of the library last year I never even cracked it.
One thing I appreciated about most of LOTF was the tight focus on the family. It was a stark contrast to the NJO, where sometimes it seemed like all I got was a handful of chapters smothered in boring Vong sauce.
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Darth_Foo
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
8/29 5:15pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
- Date Edited:
8/29 5:19pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth_Foo
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heres a conversation between one of my roomies, who has never read a SW book or comic, and i while i'm reading Jedi Twilight:
Roomie- how is it?
Me- pretty good so far. i'm only 40 some odd pages into it.
Roomie- what's it about?
Roomie- this jedi who survived order 66 living on coruscant and the other characters are from previous books.
Roomie- where any of them in the films?
Me- no
Roomie- don't care then.
people like us who are die hards and care about the side characters are fine and books without the big 3 will sell. but i think the 3 (hey 4 what aboot lando??) are needed to interest new readers and casual fans
personally i like books that don't star them if they are of lesser importance or during the Dark Times or KOTOR times. after ANH, they should be in all the majors. an example would the the x-wings. (ok i know in them they retake courscant and thats major.  )
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Frak the goram Vong! LoE trumps CW cartoon. it's referenced in Ep3  Current SW book: Darth Bane POD Current Non-SW: Witnessed by Budd Hopkins
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
8/29 5:27pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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I honestly am torn. On one hand, I really love the Big Three.
But I'm honestly not sure if anyone remembers how to write them.
Zayne Carrick in Knights of the Old Republic is awesome because he's Luke Skywalker for all intents and purposes as I remember him. The over-eager do-gooder trying to make a difference in the galaxy and getting all the various attractive girls to fall head over heels in love with him.
Compare Zayne Carrick to the Luke Skywalker of Rebellion.
There's some serious cosmic disconnect here.
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
8/29 5:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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Charlemagne19 posted:
I honestly am torn. On one hand, I really love the Big Three.
But I'm honestly not sure if anyone remembers how to write them.
Zayne Carrick in Knights of the Old Republic is awesome because he's Luke Skywalker for all intents and purposes as I remember him. The over-eager do-gooder trying to make a difference in the galaxy and getting all the various attractive girls to fall head over heels in love with him.
Compare Zayne Carrick to the Luke Skywalker of Rebellion.
There's some serious cosmic disconnect here.
It's just that the writers of Rebellion are like people producing a TV series or movie about the youth of some great (wo)man in RL: They tend to be dull affairs mostly, because the great statesman or whatever is usually interpreted in the light of what (s)he became, not what (s)he was in his/her youth. Same with Luke in Rebellion, it's the shadow of the later Luke Skywalker that binds the minds of the writers of Rebellion.
Zayne Carrick, on the other hand, is free in this regard: He has no certain future. He might be a great Jedi Master or a dreadful Sith Lord in the future, but that future is still to be written, as his story develops. That's the difference between them as I see it: Rebellion is like a docudrama about the youth of Abraham Lincoln or something, KOTOR is on the other hand full of the wild freedom of open road (to exaggerate somewhat ).
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Volderon
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
8/29 7:14pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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I like the Big Three and don't want them to die however there needs to be more time spent on newer characters. There are 300 plus Jedi Knights in the galaxy, surely some are worthy of some screen time. In the Old Jedi Order, there were many, many, powerful Jedi Knights and Masters. In this New Jedi Order we have Luke. We need more powerful Jedi and not just the Council Masters and not a 14 year old Grand Master's son.
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
8/29 7:22pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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Charlemagne19 : Do you want more Big Three, if so, how and why?
Yes, I definitely would like to read more about the Big Three. They brought me into Star Wars and they're the characters I most enjoy reading about. Except for Ben Skywalker, I'm really not interested in any of the other characters now that Mara and Anakin Solo are dead.
Unfortunately, except for a very few exceptions, Luke, Han, and Leia have NOT been written very well for a long time now. I truly think that's why so many people say that they're tired of the characters and don't want to read about them anymore. I know that when one of these characters is written well, as Luke was in TUF, most fans seem hugely pleased and there's no call for their deaths or disappearances from the books until the next disappointing characterization.
I think the authors need to work to put the "magic" back into these iconic characters. I think there's a whole lot more life and many more adventures in them, but they need to be written in-character. I also think that it's way past time to have some more positive and uplifting events in their lives. They need to be more successful at what they do and they need to have some more hopeful, happier "endings" to the stories. For far too long, the Solos/Skywalker stories have been depressing, tragic, and dark. They've ended with downers. And that's not really what these characters are about. Luke, Han, and Leia used to be fun, heroic, hopeful,exciting, and endearing. The way they have been written has made them seem weary, beaten, grieving, depressed, barely surviving. That doesn't make for enjoyable books. Nor does it make them popular characters to read about.
Before we leave these characters, we need to read about them as the enjoyable characters they used to be...before the dark times, before the NJO. Luke needs to be written as an heroic, wise Jedi with a strong moral compass again after his mischaracterizations in the NJO, DN, and LotF. Every story doesn't need to be a life-changing one. I'd like to read about some light adventure stories with Luke, Leia, and Han.
As much as I prefer the OT characters, I do think that the authors need to start introducing some likeable, engaging younger characters that can be the main focus in the distant future. Right now, except for Ben, there's no one else left that I really want to read about. And Ben has no one his own age to interact with. So I'd like to see some new younger characters working WITH Luke, Leia, Han and the other older characters for a long while so they will become familiar to us. They had the chance with the YJK in the NJO, but this was botched, in my opinion. Anakin was killed, Jacen was forever changed, and Jaina danced on the dark side. And the younger characters should have been apprentices of the older characters for the entire NJO too, not sent off on their own and made to look smarter than the adults. The new characters need to be planned and developed carefully.
But, yes, I want more stories about Luke, Leia, and Han.
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Corusca_One
Registered:
Oct '05
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Date Posted:
8/29 7:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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I'd much rather see them introducing new characters or adequetely expanding on pre-established characters than focusing on the big three at this point. I enjoyed LotF, but it could have focused much more on the new generation. The NJO was a fantastic final adventure for the aging heroes of the Rebellion (if you enjoyed that series that is) and it seemed like the perfect point to phase them out.
That said there is still a place for one off stories about them, such as Mindor they just have to be thought through really. Lets face it we'll never stop enjoying the exploits of Han Solo or Luke Skywalker - when those exploits are presented in the correct fashion.
Its not long before there is a similar problem with the PT, if there's not already. As such its refreshing to see books like Coruscant Nights still being put out, truly developing the franchise rather than further rehashing it.
While i'll never stop liking Han Solo as a character, thesedays I want to read new stories about other characters: Zayne and company, Jax, Valin Horn, Jagged Fel... Even the Jedi Council members we havn't heard so much from in the past 10 SW years or so such as Corran and Kyp.
Or as I say they could get really radical and introduce new characters like LA did with KotOR before, and DH is doing with Legacy right now.
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A D'Kana.
What would Gryph do?
"I don't want to hear any Pessimistic Panakas and their prophecies of continuity gloom and doom..." -Barriss_Coffee
Zayne Carrick is Zayne Carrick!
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DARTH_MU
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
8/29 9:01pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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Who care about Big 3 or not?
As long as the characters are young, or behave youngish, without being Mary Sue.
I just hate Jaina's guts.
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In Nelani's myriad futures he could dimly glimpse good and kind
acts, love, perhaps family and children.
Oaths of the Sith coming Nov 2009
Gaius Kidanus Auctor Muianus
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UltimateMandalore
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
8/29 9:13pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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I would love to read more about Ben. He deserves his own novel.
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Mandalorians don't make threats, we make promises.
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GrandMasterKatarn
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
8/29 9:33pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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I want to read more about Kyle Katarn, Jaden Korr, Revan, Exile, HK-47, T3-M4, Canderous Ordo, Mira, Darth Nihilus, and even some of the Legacy and KOTOR (comics) characters. I was brought in with Dark Forces and have played the same games over, each time with renewed interest that I never find in the books.
No more need for the Big Three, let them die out or fade away. I don't care, just as long as they go away.
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Revan+Bane+Exile = Kyle Katarn
"Expletive: Damn it, master, I am an assassination droid... not a dictionary!" - HK-47
"My first apprentice was a female Twi'lek named Jaden Korr" - Kyle Katarn
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FireJade
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
8/29 9:52pm
Subject:
RE: The Big Three vs. The Other Guys Debate
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More of the Big Three, as long as they're done well. I've felt like their characters have just grown heavier lately, and I'm very disappointed they killed Mara off, since L/M is something I've always looked forward to. I'd like to see a lighter piece once in a while, one that doesn't involve a family member getting killed, going dark, or just being changed. No one's going to write a nine-book story arc on it, but it obviously can be done, and can be successful.
I feel like Star Wars has been trying to go "deeper" lately, and to not be the same kind of adventure story most of the older books were. It's interesting, certainly, but we've been drowning in it. It's nice if there's an occasional book on darkness and posing more philosophical questions, but it's not the same spirit as many of the older books that I've come to love.
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Luke: Still, I think I make a pretty good Luke Skywalker.
Mara: Of course you do.
Luke: So before you began impersonating Mara, what was your real hair color?
Mara: Farmboy, you're asking for a beating...
--- LotF: Betrayal by Aaron Allston (2006), pg. 22
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