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Author	Topic: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
beccatoria Title: Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 1/1 6:36am Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura - Date Edited: 11/7 2:38pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Havac
	Welcome all! This month we are discussing The Truce at Bakura by Kathy Tyers. Here's a link to the TF.N Staff Reviews. I'll kick us off with some discussion points, but as always, please feel free to discuss any and everything about the book. - The OT characters. Luke, Leia and Han, fresh from ROTJ are thrown into another crisis. Luke and Leia especially have to deal with their new status and the new status of the Alliance. Luke is thrown out into his first "solo mission" after completing his training (unorthodox though it may have been), and Leia is struggling with the new knowledge of her father's identity. What did you think of their characterisation and their storylines in the book? - The Ssi-ruuk! Dev Sibwarra! Did you find them effective as villains? What about their entechment technology - somewhat unique in the SW galaxy. Did you like it? Did it jar with the space opera feel? And what about Dev, and the slow reveal that he's being continually hypnotised and brainwashed, not simply indoctrinated from a young age. What are your thoughts on his storyline? - How do you feel this integrates into wider canon in light of recent changes? Could Dev's mother - the Jedi apprentice who never completed her training - be evidence not all padawans who don't find a master end up in the Corps for life? The note about how Bakura only recently integrated into the Empire and therefore is still resistant to its rule is also intriguing. - Any thoughts on the way the book was written and structured, or the themes the author chose to use? - EPPIE BELDEN. That is all. Take it away! In February we will be discussing Han Solo at Star's End by Brian Daley. -----signature----- legatus imperatoris britanniæ superior REMEMBER: X-WING: WEDGE'S GAMBLE DISCUSSION STARTS IN DECEMBER! Han's a girl, so I got a Golden Ewok.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 1/1 1:54pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	* Ok, let's go - though I have yet to regain access to this book - a long-delayed project that may see completion this year - so recollections it'll have to be... - The OT characters. Luke, Leia and Han, fresh from ROTJ are thrown into another crisis. * I love the setting of this - 1 day, no - the day- after ROTJ! You couldn't get a more immediate posst-movie start. (Save for Luke Skywalker & The Hangover From Hell perhaps?) Luke and Leia especially have to deal with their new status and the new status of the Alliance. * TAB made one of the best justifications for the continuing war with the Empire - that the forces arrayed at Endor were a fraction of its full resources! Luke is thrown out into his first "solo mission" after completing his training (unorthodox though it may have been), and Leia is struggling with the new knowledge of her father's identity. What did you think of their characterisation and their storylines in the book? * I liked the Leia arc a great deal, Tyers is one of a very few authors who can write a flawed yet likeable Leia, that the resolution to her problem comes from her husband was another neat touch. * I loved that Anakin Skywalker is attempting a sort of atonement, it adds to the sense of a mystically gifted redemption from the Force that being what he received in ROTJ - yet never expected nor feels worthy of such. * I like that Luke both struggles with but also succeeds at bearing the burden of command. That he fights his foes, from Nereus' contempt to Gaerial's scepticism with compassion, it is fitting that Nereus is undone by his own acts rather than being cut down by Luke. - The Ssi-ruuk! Dev Sibwarra! Did you find them effective as villains? * I found them to be truly creepy. Dev's devotion to them made sense and his slow conversion to another way, shown to him by Luke, was far more convncing than a sudden 180-degree turn. What about their entechment technology - somewhat unique in the SW galaxy. Did you like it? Did it jar with the space opera feel? * I'd say the sheer satanic nature of it meshed well with SW - plus the fact the Emperor desired it! Why wouldn't he? Soul-slaved fighters, great concept! And what about Dev, and the slow reveal that he's being continually hypnotised and brainwashed, not simply indoctrinated from a young age. What are your thoughts on his storyline? * See above. I need to re-read TAB given the Q as I've forgotten this bit! - How do you feel this integrates into wider canon in light of recent changes? Could Dev's mother - the Jedi apprentice who never completed her training - be evidence not all padawans who don't find a master end up in the Corps for life? The note about how Bakura only recently integrated into the Empire and therefore is still resistant to its rule is also intriguing. * We do have a mention of Bakura in a Clone Wars comic too. I'd suspect it's a case of it being on the edge of known space so a low-priority target for the Empire. - Any thoughts on the way the book was written and structured, or the themes the author chose to use? * One of the main themes in TAB is redemption, of how it can be gained in a number of ways if a person is but open enough to it, from Dev to Gaerial to Anakin to Eppie - there's a theme of people wishing to make up for past mistakes. Another is that there is always an alternative, that people can be won over with words, reason and compassion, that those who opt for violent brutality defeat their selves as we see Nerus destroy his support base, he turns Thanas away from him - by the time he tries to shoot Luke he truly is the architect of his own downfall. - EPPIE BELDEN. That is all. * Agreed, but I have a liking for Thanas, I was quie pleased to find Gaerial later married him. JB -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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Katana_Geldar Title: Former CR Tasmania, AU' Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 1/1 2:59pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura - Date Edited: 1/1 3:00pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Katana_Geldar
	I have rather mixed views on this, it's classic Bantam in the way mutliple things are thrown into the story for our heroes to deal with. I like how Tyer's looked at the effects of the lightning, something I've always wondered about in ROTJ. Didn't really like Gaeriel for some reason, and all that orange stuff was rather annoying. One of the interesting things is Mon Mothma's view of Obi-Wan's ghost. It's surprising how seriously she takes it, as well as other rebels. And what precisely is the Kenobi Offensive? That's what it's called, isn't it? Eppie was the highlight for me, and it was sad when she died. And is it just me, or does Luke look rather girly on the cover? -----signature----- Jacen and the two Vergeres http://gmgeldar.wordpress.com/vergere-essay/ Now, if you don't mind, I am somewhat preoccoupied telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down.
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Robimus Registered: Jul '07	Date Posted: 1/1 3:02pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	I'm gonna have to grab this from the library, most my memories of it are kinda not enjoyable. I primarily didn't like the Ssi-ruuk and never really thought they worked well as a Star Wars villian. Also the idea that Bakura couldn't contact the Empire in any way, shape or form just seemed a bit unbelieveable to me. I admit I can't remember clearly how it was presented now but the idea that they couldn't contact Coruscant because of the Battle of Endor didn't sit well with me at the time. With the WEG already having layed out so much of the structure of the Empire in detail I always felt like someone Imperial would have been available to contact. Be it a Moff, or Grand Moff or whoever. Add to that the relative scale of the fleets in Truce at Bakura. I found it difficult to accept Thanas's flag ship was a Carrack-Class vessel and its complement of four Tie Fighters. In a galaxy filled with huge cruisers, even older ones like Dreadnaughts I simply think Bakura would have had a bigger vessel at its disposal. Again this was likely the WEG messing with my enjoyment of the book, but having read so much of the WEG stuff about the Empire before Truce at Bakura came out I was left thinking the scale of the Bakuran Fleet was a little small. Funny, I don't recall a lot of the Luke and Leia stuff in the book. Anyway, I'll grab it from the library soon and see if my memories match up with how I feel about it today. -----signature----- I am forever seeking the damutek of Hooley Krekk Oh, woe! Oh, misery! Oh, unhappiness. Hooley Krekk where are you? . http://www.cccomiccon.com http://www.actionfigurenews.ca
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DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 1/1 3:04pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	The Kenobi Offensive: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kenobi_Offensive My opinion as to what it actually is: An alternate name for the Outer Rim Sieges, which Kenobi personally planned as a deep attack on the CIS' most valuable assets to draw them away from the core and negate their numerical advantage. Yes, that's all pure fanon. -----signature----- Only a Prime can defeat Vader and his Emperor.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 1/1 3:04pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	Katana_Geldar posted: I like how Tyer's looked at the effects of the lightning, something I've always wondered about in ROTJ. One of the interesting things is Mon Mothma's view of Obi-Wan's ghost. It's surprising how seriously she takes it, as well as other rebels. And what precisely is the Kenobi Offensive? That's what it's called, isn't it? Agreed on both, forgot to mention 'em above. -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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magneto Registered: Feb '01	Date Posted: 1/1 4:37pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	Ahhh I love this book. I reread this about 5 years ago. This was the first Star Wars book I read I believe. I was very young and could barely keep up ha ha. Anyway I love this book because of how isolated the incident was. You had a rag tag remnant rebel fleet (there's an exact list in the novel) making an uneasy truce with an imperial garrison led by an honest imperial officer against a very scary alien species. I do like all the Bakurans and I have enjoyed reading about them again in the Corellian Trilogy and in the NJO. I do with Dev didn't die in the end but for the purpose of the story I can see why he did. Great book!
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 1/1 8:47pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	I really liked Truce at Bakura. I thought it was a creative story with chilling, creepy villains, and I think Kathy Tyers wrote the OT characters very well. There are very few authors who get Luke right, but I think that Tyers handled him well, as the new, still-learning Jedi and first time leader of a battle group. Leia was written well too, as a diplomat trying to secure first a truce with the Imperial commander, and then trying to convince Bakura to join the Alliance, while trying to come to terms with the fact that Darth Vader was her father. I remember being very surprised the first time I read the TaB when Anakin Skywalker appeared to Leia to seek her forgiveness. But it was good to know that this was important to him, and that he was trying to make amends. The Ssii-ruuk were scary, disgusting villains, whose goal was to enslave the galaxy by enteching everyone to their ships and machines. The very thought is chilling and disturbing. I thought they were effective villains for the Imperials and the Alliance to face together as they presented a real challenge and terrible danger, and for Luke to have to deal with on his own. And the revelation that the Emperor wanted to obtain some of those enteched ships himself showed again how truly evil Palpatine was. I didn't care much for Gaeriel early in the story, but she grew on me a bit as she became more active and involved in working for Bakura's freedom. I found her religion rather odd as it seems to almost give people an excuse not to try to improve themselves or do their best because they could say that by raising themselves someone else might have to be lowered or weakened. Balance is sought, but in a way it almost seems like status quo or mediocrity is what the religion preaches. No need to try to excel at anything as you will only be diminishing someone else. I can't say I like that kind of belief much. I thought Luke "fell" for Gaeriel too quickly and without even knowing her at all. I didn't care for that. I felt really sorry for Dev Sibwarra. Talk about a tough life! He was basically a slave of the Ssi-Ruuk for most of his life; indoctrinated, hypnotised, and brainwashed into serving them and betraying his own kind. When he finally realized what had been done to him, he ended up being heroic, trying to keep the Ssi-Ruuk from successfully enteching the entire galaxy, first by trying to kill Luke when it seemed Luke was incapacitated so Luke couldn't be used to enslave everyone in the galaxy; and then by helping Luke defeat the Ssi-ruuk. I was very sorry that Dev couldn't be healed from his terrible injuries at the end. Speaking of injuries, I'm glad Luke was able to realize that Eppie Belden's injuries were able to be healed. Eppie was quite an amazing old woman wasn't she? Despite the loss of her son and husband she gallantly pressed forward and basically almost single-handedly got Bakura to rise against the Empire with a little help from her friends, relatives, and Artoo. Plus some distractions by the Ssi-Ruuk. It was good to see Artoo and Threepio given useful roles in this story. I've missed them in the recent EU! They were able to decipher the Ssi-Ruuk language so the good guys were able to understand the Ssi-Ruuvi communications. That's how they knew that the Ssi-Ruk were going to attack sooner than they were expected to. And Artoo was able to help Eppie Belden. It was an interesting idea to have the Empire and the Alliance call a truce in order to work together to deal with a common enemy. But it was terrible when the Ssi-Ruuvi left and the Imperial forces attacked the Rebels who had saved them. It really bothered me when Thanas shot down the Flurry and other Alliance ships He had seemed like a decent person, and that seemed like a terrible betrayal. But he redeemed himself. It was a nice surprise at the end to find that despite what Thanas had done in the space battle above Bakura, that he had decided he was on the wrong side, and he joined the Alliance. Random comments : I thought it was funny when Luke was taken aback by stormtroopers guarding his quarters, as well as his comment about having an "allergic reaction to stormtroopers". I enjoyed reading about Luke's rescue of Wedge at the beginning. Jedi Ben : * TAB made one of the best justifications for the continuing war with the Empire - that the forces arrayed at Endor were a fraction of its full resources! That's a great point! * I like that Luke both struggles with but also succeeds at bearing the burden of command. I liked this too. I thought Luke did well, especially in taking care of the problem that Nereus instigated at Pad 12, and the way Luke dealt with Nereus at the end. He also worried about those under his command and saw to it that their needs were taken care of. It was good to see that Luke wasn't afraid to literally get his hands dirty, helping with ship repairs when he had a little time. He did fine in the space battle, and had the great idea to send the X-wings to help in case Han and Leia were in trouble... which, of course, they were. * One of the main themes in TAB is redemption, of how it can be gained in a number of ways if a person is but open enough to it, from Dev to Gaerial to Anakin to Eppie - there's a theme of people wishing to make up for past mistakes. Another is that there is always an alternative, that people can be won over with words, reason and compassion, Nicely said, JB! You're right that redemption was a major theme in TaB. You could add Thanas to your list too.
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beccatoria Title: Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 1/2 2:57am Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	Having finished the book for the first time since my first read through when I was, I think, fourteen (so, wow, over ten years ago), I found I didn't enjoy it as much as the first time. I can't really put my finger on why. It had all the individual elements of a great little adventure story. So, let me list the stuff I liked and thought worked well: - Luke's characterisation as eager and nervous. Perhaps a little more ANH farmboy than serious ROTJ Jedi Knight but I also thought that worked well as the novels I like Luke in best draw out this aspect of his character, and I can see him instinctively reverting to a more happy, optimistic attitude in light of the fact that his biggest battle has just been won; victory and peace have been achieved. (For a time) - Leia's interactions with her father and the subsequent starts of her acceptance of his identity. It was nice to see the difference between the twins shown and I think it fits with Leia's personality not to so easily forgive, or know how to deal with the information. I also liked that Anakin Skywalker wanted to make time to ask for his daughter's forgiveness as well as his son's. It was a nice way to make an otherwise very standalone novel significant in the wider scheme of things. - Dev Sibwarra. I thought the parts of the book that were most successful were those written from Dev's perspective. Tyers managed to write from the perspective of an indoctrinated and brainwashed young man and it succeeded well and very creepily. I thought the slow reveal that he wasn't simply indoctrinated from a lifetime of lies and socialisation (which I would have believed and might have made an alternate interesting take), but actual hypnosis that Dev then didn't really recall worked really well. I thought there was a great parallel there between Dev's constant belief that he was realising for the first time that the Ssi-ruuk were evil and that he must oppose them, and Eppie Belden's inability to remember that her son was dead. It's a shame he died, though I understand it from a story perspective. He's one of the few characters I've seen in the EU who I find sympathetic, compelling, with a Zayne-like naivety who is also riddled with anger. I find myself imagining JAT with Dev Sibwarra in Kyp Durron's place, using the suncrusher to destroy the Ssi-Ruuvi Imperium. I think I would have found it more sympathetic. - EPPIE BELDEN. Awesome. 'Nough said. No, no wait: she wasn't a slicer, she was a "circuitry guerilla". I love that. I may have to go around claiming that I'm a circuitry guerilla. - The general size of the adventure, the timeframe, the political set-up were all also interesting to me. An immmediate follow-up to ROTJ, an insignificant world that nonetheless means much to the Alliance (and for me, reinforced just how small the Alliance actually was, galactically speaking), the political factions on Bakura and how they interacted with the incoming invasion. Evil and honourable Imperials. And yet, it didn't quite gel for me. Perhaps the writing style just didn't work for me, though aside from Luke reflecting in early pages, that Leia was helping the "furry little ewoks bury their dead," (which I found to be such a ludicrous sentence I burst out laughing!) I have no specific criticisms of Tyers writing, and as I said, found Dev's sections to be pretty good. Perhaps it was Gaeriel. Again, I understand why the author would feel the need to introduce a love interest for Luke since metatextually it almost feels like Luke was allowed to have Leia be his sister so that the audience wouldn't feel so bad for him losing out to Han. But perhaps it was the timing or the fact that his sudden infatuation with her almost felt like a post Battle of Endor adrenaline rush, it didn't really work for me. I liked her as a character okay, but the romance angle seemed forced. Also like Windy I was not a fan of her religion. It's always nice to see new religions and cultural differences in the EU, but this one seems so...simplistic I couldn't quite buy into it (though I'm sure weirder actual religions exist on Earth). Either way, it seemed odd that a person of political power from a family of politicians, including the Prime Minister would adhere to this religion since surely her own job is keeping someone else down? With a little more fleshing out it could have been interesting, but as it is it just seemed oddly blind to its own hypocrisy. I was also not a huge fan of the Ssi-ruuk's technology. It seemed to hard-techy for me. Matters of consciousness and the soul are usually the province of the Force, yet this technology is void of it. It seemed an uncomfortable meshing of Sith alchemy and hard tech. That said, I want to thank Ben for his astute comparison with the Sith stuff, because he is right - there's definitely a thematic parallel there and one that makes me more comfortable with its existence in the EU. Either way, I didn't dislike the book, but with the exception of Leia's visit from Anakin and a few chilling moments with Dev, I didn't feel like it really lived up to its potential either. A couple of random points: Katana: Yes. Yes he does look oddly girly there. I always thought the artist was trying to make him resemble Leia a little more than usual (around the eyes?) and the end result was a little unfortunate. DarthBoba: Interesting retcon. -----signature----- legatus imperatoris britanniæ superior REMEMBER: X-WING: WEDGE'S GAMBLE DISCUSSION STARTS IN DECEMBER! Han's a girl, so I got a Golden Ewok.
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DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 1/2 10:21am Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	Beccatoria: Thanks. I've thought it a little iffy that somebody like Ackbar-even with his penchant for declaring traps -probably wouldn't be too "wow cool!" at some random tactical manuever. A grand campaign that reverses the tables on the Seps despite their numerical superiority, though...;) -----signature----- Only a Prime can defeat Vader and his Emperor.
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Daft-Vader Registered: Aug '08	Date Posted: 1/2 11:49am Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	Okay, I personally thought the book was good. It started just after the Battle of Endor, and showed the aftermath.I t also showed Leia's reaction to Darth Vader being her father, which was good because this really wasn't focused on in the films - I agree with how Anakin appearing to Leia to ask for forgiveness does show Anakin wanting to redeem himself. The Ssi-ruuk where an interesting villain, different from the normal ex_Empire Employee/Dark Side user. - How do you feel this integrates into wider canon in light of recent changes? Could Dev's mother - the Jedi apprentice who never completed her training - be evidence not all padawans who don't find a master end up in the Corps for life? The note about how Bakura only recently integrated into the Empire and therefore is still resistant to its rule is also intriguing. ^ Is there anywhere that says that a member of the Agricultural Corps can't have children, since they aren't actual Jedi? This would go well, a member of the Corps, sent to some planet to help the natives, has kid, Ssi-ruuk invade, kill mother, take children. Also brings up the idea, was the Agricultural Corp still going? Would Palpatine let it continue? Eppie Belden was an good character, and it showed how evil the Empire is, by 'killing' someone', but letting them live. One of the final scenes, where Eppie Beldon walks into Governer Nereus Office, and the shear shock of seeing her makes him lose it, is a good scene, personally. As for the romance between Luke and Gaerial, this comes from the Galaxy where Luke sees a holo of Princess Leia, and instanlty falls in love, and also, although this was after TaB, the Anakin Skywalker - Padme relation sees girl when he os ten yrs, ten years later, still 'in love' and dreaming of her. In Conclusion, a good book, and an intersteing story. Daft-Vader DarthBoba:Is your sig (Bantam-Spectra issues world-wide recall for Young Jedi Knights, Jedi Academy, and Callista series books, citing toxic glue in binding.) True? -----signature----- Official Coolian & JC Musketeer Lando Calrissian for Galactic President/Gummy for President/Bow Before Darthelinth Propaganda Minister and LORD of the SWC Empire; Senator for Mustafar
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DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 1/2 2:45pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	Daft: No, no it's not. -----signature----- Only a Prime can defeat Vader and his Emperor.
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Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 1/2 2:49pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	relieved exhale So I can keep licking Darksaber's binding at random intervals? -----signature----- "James T. Kirk was a great man... but that was another life."
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DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 1/2 2:50pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	lol. Sure, go ahead. -----signature----- Only a Prime can defeat Vader and his Emperor.
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Lord_Hydronium Title: Literature Gardener Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 1/2 2:57pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura - Date Edited: 1/2 2:59pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Lord_Hydronium
	I admittedly haven't fully read the book, so while I don't have much I can say as to it as a whole, I've never been happy with the premise (which is actually what caused me to stop reading it before; I was enjoying the Endor parts that actually covered the aftermath of the battle). Here you have a story starting literally the day after Endor, with an unparalleled opportunity to tell the immediate aftermath of the death of the Emperor and his right-hand man and all the chaos sown into the Empire accompanying it...and it's about some race of aliens we've never heard of. Of all the times to use the Empire as a villain, this isn't just the one where it would be the most justifiable, but one where it's positively expected. It just seems like a huge missed opportunity to suddenly bring in this whole new group. -----signature----- Great midis have little midis Swimming round inside 'em And little midis have lesser midis And so ad infinitum.
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Katana_Geldar Title: Former CR Tasmania, AU' Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 1/2 2:59pm Subject: RE: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: The Truce at Bakura
	Bec, Christianity and Hinduism did that, keeping people in their place. -----signature----- Jacen and the two Vergeres http://gmgeldar.wordpress.com/vergere-essay/ Now, if you don't mind, I am somewhat preoccoupied telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down.
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