Author Topic: NJO Edge of Victory 1: Conquest ( Luke's Vision)
ixoyefreak  350 posts
Registered: Nov '05
40188_Sith
Date Posted: 1/9 2:21pm Subject: NJO Edge of Victory 1: Conquest ( Luke's Vision) - Date Edited: 1/9 2:23pm (1 edits total) Edited By: ixoyefreak
So i was reading the NJO again and i came across this saying on page 33 by Luke.

"Iv'e seen a future. Several futures.However this ends with the Yuuzhng Vong, it won't be me that ends it,or Kyp, or any of the older jedi. It will be someone knew. I don't know who. I'm afraid to even talk about it.Every word spreads, puts ripples in the force for every person who hears it, changes things. Now i know how Yoda and Ben felt.Watching,trying to guide, hoping i'm not wrong, that i'm seeing clearly, that there is such a thing as wisdom and that i'm not just fooling myself."

So for anyone who sees a future and tells someone about it or someone hears what the vision was about can change the outcome. How can it change the outcomes or possiable future/futures here? How do the ripples in the force affect it? Arn't there always ripples in the force? I understand that the future is always in motion and can always change or be changed. But if someone just hears about the vision then it sends ripples in the force and can possibly change the future/vision?

Got a killer headache so if it dosn't make sense let me know.

 

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jedimasterED  2461 posts
Title: Moderator Emeritus
Registered: Oct '99
Date Posted: 1/9 2:48pm Subject: RE: NJO Edge of Victory 1: Conquest ( Luke's Vision)
Think of it this way:

I look into "Future A" and see that my friend is going to slip and fall on a banana peel, breaking his neck and dying. I tell him. He spends the rest of his life walking around looking for banana peels, uprooting banana trees, and being a general wack-job... creating "Future B".

Future A =/= Future B because, in part, I told my wacky, banana-hating friend about his Future A manner of death (a.k.a. "my words") and, in part, because he went wacky (a.k.a. "the ripples").

 

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CeiranHarmony  4498 posts
Registered: May '04
17274_Dark Apprentice
Date Posted: 1/9 3:26pm Subject: RE: NJO Edge of Victory 1: Conquest ( Luke's Vision)
jedimasterED posted:
Think of it this way:

I look into "Future A" and see that my friend is going to slip and fall on a banana peel, breaking his neck and dying. I tell him. He spends the rest of his life walking around looking for banana peels, uprooting banana trees, and being a general wack-job... creating "Future B".

Future A =/= Future B because, in part, I told my wacky, banana-hating friend about his Future A manner of death (a.k.a. "my words") and, in part, because he went wacky (a.k.a. "the ripples").




well, or he tries so much avoiding Future A that he concentrates on banana peels and instead slips on a icy walkway in winter, or whatever, creating Future C that in effect is similiar to Future A but course corrected to adapt the changes to the fate. (I am not a believer in course correction or any special theory about this stuff, just mentioning alternatives here wink ) I call this scenario the Vader-incident. Anakin tries to stay away from darkness and falls nevertheless...

as well it might be, that he still slips on a Banana peel and the telling of the future did not change anything at all.

or he does not slip and


well in short:

Scenario A: future told, future changed
Scenario B: future told, future altered but not changed - course correction
Scenario C: future told, future happens as if set in stone, unalterable despite trying
Scenario D: future not told, future happens (if set in stone or free will is unclear)
Scenario E: future not told, future does not happen (telling would start events that lead to the vision happening)
Scenario F: future not told, future altered but happens nevertheless (kinda like vision was vague or not telling altered it since visions future depended on telling the individual): course correction


we had examples of all this in SW with different visions already. nothing can be taken to be 100%

 

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ixoyefreak  350 posts
Registered: Nov '05
40188_Sith
Date Posted: 1/9 3:28pm Subject: RE: NJO Edge of Victory 1: Conquest ( Luke's Vision)
jedimasterED posted:
Think of it this way:

I look into "Future A" and see that my friend is going to slip and fall on a banana peel, breaking his neck and dying. I tell him. He spends the rest of his life walking around looking for banana peels, uprooting banana trees, and being a general wack-job... creating "Future B".

Future A =/= Future B because, in part, I told my wacky, banana-hating friend about his Future A manner of death (a.k.a. "my words") and, in part, because he went wacky (a.k.a. "the ripples").




Like i understand that but if i tell people i have had a vision of our karate studio winning the national champs and i didnt' win it and neither did our master it was someone new. How does me telling that change the future or possiably change it?

 

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Grey1  1730 posts
Registered: Nov '00
44285_Ebon Hawk
Date Posted: 1/9 3:42pm Subject: RE: NJO Edge of Victory 1: Conquest ( Luke's Vision)
It works really well with The Chosen One Prophecy, too, which then retcons into Ben and Yoda's hesitation that's mentioned here...

Anakin knows that he's the chosen one, which very loosely translates into "the greatest Jedi ever". This knowledge supports his arrogance, which helps his fall to the dark side.

Luke, however, doesn't know anything about the prophecy. Only in the final stages does he find out about his destiny of having to confront Vader - and maybe only because he was impatient and found out about Vader's past. Now, Luke still doesn't know the Chosen One context, but he's still a much looser cannon than a detached Luke who didn't know about all the family issues would have been. Luke risks everything in the hope of redeeming his father and loses his control when his sister gets threatened; if he'd just seen Vader and the Emperor as bad people he needed to stop, everything might have been less complicated (although I suppose this theory falls apart as soon as one of the Sith opens his mouth, but maybe the Jedi wanted to train Luke to a point where family ties wouldn't have mattered anymore).

Going back to Conquest, such passages always are quite heavy on the OOU-meaning for me. Here, I translated Luke's words directly into "one of the kids will be the hero" and "we can't really confirm who it will be if we're just into the second year and an IU-character whouldn't know that anyway". It gets revisited with "Destiny's Way"'s "Jacen's got a special destiny" at a time when it's clear to the OOU reader that Jacen is the new hero in question.

What effects would Luke have had? Maybe every young Jedi would have tried to find an astonishing solution, endangering most of those who weren't "destined", and the old ones would have been really usure of their place in the whole affair. But in the end, for me it's mostly OOU-reasons.

 

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CeiranHarmony  4498 posts
Registered: May '04
17274_Dark Apprentice
Date Posted: 1/9 3:43pm Subject: RE: NJO Edge of Victory 1: Conquest ( Luke's Vision)
ixoyefreak posted:
jedimasterED posted:
Think of it this way:

I look into "Future A" and see that my friend is going to slip and fall on a banana peel, breaking his neck and dying. I tell him. He spends the rest of his life walking around looking for banana peels, uprooting banana trees, and being a general wack-job... creating "Future B".

Future A =/= Future B because, in part, I told my wacky, banana-hating friend about his Future A manner of death (a.k.a. "my words") and, in part, because he went wacky (a.k.a. "the ripples").




Like i understand that but if i tell people i have had a vision of our karate studio winning the national champs and i didnt' win it and neither did our master it was someone new. How does me telling that change the future or possiably change it?


well, all newbies in your studio would want to be that one winner. thus all compete and try to be best, but concentrate too much on besting the others than training for the actual adversaries of the competition. thus they loose there and nobody of your studio wins, cause you told them and distracted them from their main goal. some might even have not trained as much as others cause they are not new, or cause they feel superior to the others, which they were, and they fail because they were overconfident.

see?

 

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Excellence  24488 posts
Registered: Jul '02
6338_New Republic Seal
Date Posted: 1/10 10:47pm Subject: RE: NJO Edge of Victory 1: Conquest ( Luke's Vision)

You were rereading the NJO, eh? Hmmm.... Why? Ah never mind...

Visions mean nothing. Jacen's Onslaught came out different, and "freeing slaves" in Traitor had nothing to do with it, despite the book alluding to it finally eventuating.

 

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TuskenTommy  292 posts
Registered: Jul '06
8052_Tatooine Wasteland
Date Posted: 1/11 12:36pm Subject: RE: NJO Edge of Victory 1: Conquest ( Luke's Vision)
Curious, wish he we're to have some flashbacks in the coming Fats O' the Jedi series. Maybe while he's visiting Mara's grave.(iknow she was burned)....But, how many futures has Luke altered?
-It be pretty cool if Greg Keye's or Stover would write a duology or so, SET right after Dark-Nest. Having Luke get lost in his visions fro,m the past, maybe him ghost walking that he learns from Jacen in the future after Jacens death because Jacen from say 4 years into his quest/force journey Goes & Flow-Walks to now & teaches Luke how to do it.. So Luke could better explain his visions....BAH!!!! nevermind,,,hows he onna flow-walk when it doesnt exist,,or never happened...Make this short,simple,and sweet,,Luke just explains (in detail) about Futures(HORROR!) he prevented..

 

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Arawn_Fenn  10409 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 1/11 12:39pm Subject: RE: NJO Edge of Victory 1: Conquest ( Luke's Vision)
>>>in the coming Fats O' the Jedi series.


If only... laugh

 

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