Author Topic: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
Zorrixor  4389 posts
Registered: Sep '04
42757_Prince Xizor
Date Posted: 6/30 12:38pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4) - Date Edited: 6/30 12:38pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
Maybe the entire Sith invasion was just because the Emperor was pissed that he'd found out his Empress was having an affair with one of his Moffs. tongue

EDIT: Um, make that two of his Moffs.

 

Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Jedi Trace  9526 posts
Title:
• SouthEast RSA
• FanFiction Manager

Registered: Dec '99
49024_Deliah Blue (804094)
Date Posted: 6/30 2:07pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
I am personally hoping that Nynigan is as complicated and as simple as she appears: a smart, independent woman who knows how to accessorize and play the men in her life like fiddles. tongue Feminine wiles, FTW baybee. batting

 

-----signature-----
"Luke Skywalker kicks ass. Next question." - Tom Taylor cool

"Sometimes bad guys are the only good guys you get." - Leverage
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
FireJade  1677 posts
Registered: Nov '05
22822_Mara Jade
Date Posted: 6/30 2:15pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
^^ This. She's owning Veed massively right now, and I liked the way she took care of Torlin.

 

-----signature-----
Luke: Still, I think I make a pretty good Luke Skywalker.
Mara: Of course you do.
Luke: So before you began impersonating Mara, what was your real hair color?
Mara: Farmboy, you're asking for a beating...
--- LotF: Betrayal by Aaron Allston (2006), p. 228
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
The2ndQuest  40241 posts
Title: Manager:
-Literature
-LACWAC
-Games

Registered: Jan '00
49624_H234: Samus
Date Posted: 6/30 8:52pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
Master_Keralys posted:
But the arcs that have been people's favorites have had a couple things in common: very tight plotting, a lot happening in every single issue, and an ultimate change in the status quo. And I think what's frustrating people is that the change in the status quo from Vector is not being felt yet - six months later. Not in a significant way, at least.

...I guess what I'm getting at is that the apce seems to have really slowed down, and it was that breakneck sense of rushing through a broken galaxy again that captivated us all with Legacy in the first place. And it's felt missing... though maybe that's just me. peace


I might be in the minority, but my favorite issues and storylines in this series are the "slower" non-major arcs that not only flesh out the era, but function as the build-up to the major event storylines you refer to, which just make those events all the more sweet and feeling like a pay-off.

I think it's why I enjoyed Shards and Claw, etc more than Broken- Broken doesn't have any setup (by design) and throws you into the action, and while I still liked the arc alot as a series launch, it didn't have the context that later issues provided (Shards simultaneously fleshes out and improves Broken retroactively while setting up the Claws arc). Vector had setup and a payoff. Now we're back in the build-up phase, and I'm sure after this arc we'll start seeing some big pay-off for the Cade storyline in the next major arc focusing on him.

 

-----signature-----
"When your future self tells you to do something, YOU DO IT."
K'Kruhk, 140 ABY:"Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker?
Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Lord_Hydronium  6303 posts
Title: Literature Gardener
Registered: Jun '02
15597_Vergere
Date Posted: 6/30 9:26pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4) - Date Edited: 6/30 9:29pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Lord_Hydronium
I'd be more concerned with Cade's progress, or lack thereof, if I thought this series was about Cade. Or that he's necessarily the hero. I think both of those are unwarranted assumptions.

I mean, if you look at the major plot-shaping events that have taken place since Broken 1:

  • The Galactic Alliance seized a major warship from the Sith and returned to a more influential level of power.

  • The GA and Fel Empire allied with each other.

  • The Sith began a holocaust of the Mon Calamari.

  • Krayt died and Wyyrlok seized power.

There are some others that could be argued as somewhat major in an in-universe sense, like the attempted assassination of Fel, or the earlier attempt at a Fel/GA treaty that was sabotaged by the Sith.

All but one of those happened in the so-called "side story" issues, and even the one in a Cade issue happened when he was well out the picture (and since the fallout of that has mainly been around Veed, Nyna, and the Sith, it's remained largely separate from his story). Cade's remained pretty much confined to his own plot separate from all that, his character hasn't really made any progress towards heroism, or as people have noted, much progress at all...

So what makes people think he's the hero?

 

-----signature-----
Great midis have little midis
Swimming round inside 'em
And little midis have lesser midis
And so ad infinitum.
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Ulicus  7359 posts
Registered: Jul '05
41990_Duron Qel-Droma
Date Posted: 6/30 9:42pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
The2ndQuest posted:
Master_Keralys posted:
But the arcs that have been people's favorites have had a couple things in common: very tight plotting, a lot happening in every single issue, and an ultimate change in the status quo. And I think what's frustrating people is that the change in the status quo from Vector is not being felt yet - six months later. Not in a significant way, at least.

...I guess what I'm getting at is that the apce seems to have really slowed down, and it was that breakneck sense of rushing through a broken galaxy again that captivated us all with Legacy in the first place. And it's felt missing... though maybe that's just me. peace


I might be in the minority, but my favorite issues and storylines in this series are the "slower" non-major arcs that not only flesh out the era, but function as the build-up to the major event storylines you refer to, which just make those events all the more sweet and feeling like a pay-off.

I think it's why I enjoyed Shards and Claw, etc more than Broken- Broken doesn't have any setup (by design) and throws you into the action, and while I still liked the arc alot as a series launch, it didn't have the context that later issues provided (Shards simultaneously fleshes out and improves Broken retroactively while setting up the Claws arc). Vector had setup and a payoff. Now we're back in the build-up phase, and I'm sure after this arc we'll start seeing some big pay-off for the Cade storyline in the next major arc focusing on him.

I pretty much agree.

 

-----signature-----
This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though?
An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense.
Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Lord_Hydronium  6303 posts
Title: Literature Gardener
Registered: Jun '02
15597_Vergere
Date Posted: 6/30 10:12pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4) - Date Edited: 6/30 10:14pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Lord_Hydronium
To clarify, I do agree that Cade is a main character. If this were a TV show, his actor might even receive top billing. I wouldn't call him the main character, though, or the hero, or say that Legacy is about him. So I'm not really put out if he remains stagnant, since I think the ensemble cast, and their overall plot, is the real main focus of Legacy. If Cade died in the next issue, I wouldn't picture it significantly altering the direction of the series.

 

-----signature-----
Great midis have little midis
Swimming round inside 'em
And little midis have lesser midis
And so ad infinitum.
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Grey1  1730 posts
Registered: Nov '00
44285_Ebon Hawk
Date Posted: 7/1 2:53am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
The first thing I want to bring up about this issue is the big reveal picture of Cade & friends on page 4. In recent years, I think there have been several instances of using lighting effect in the colouring of SW comics, and I believe JD was always at the forefront. So no big deal. I'm really astonished, though, that this picture doesn't only have lense flare, it's also very bright/blue - from the corner of my eye, I could almost believe that there was a group of Chiss. wink

Why am I bringing that up? In these days, I believe you almost can't say 'lense flare' without people thinking of the new Star Trek movie, and part of me feels as if this picture was consciously moved into that visual direction (ok, the other part says 'no way in Corellian hell', but still...). Now the best part: When I wanted to show it to my girlfriend for confirmation, I dropped the book and caught it in mid-air, which we both agreed added shaky camera effects, thus making the comparison perfect. tongue

Again, I only partly think that this could be something that was thought of during the creative process (would the colouring have been finished before the movie came out in May?), but it opened up ideas about future comics taking on Trek's "R'n'B music video" flare asthetic and having panel after panel of pictures that fade into white. Maybe the next Trek comic...? thinking


Overall, I enjoyed the issue. I think I eased up a bit on my expectations - it doesn't need to be perfect to be nice.

Content-wise, I think the best part for me was the New Improved Dynamic Three. First, it's funny how KOTOR gets criticized for going on a con spree instead of some galactic huge event, and then Cade and co go on a con spree (granted, they only do so for a part of an issue, with other plot threads still moving along, but hey - it's "business on the other side of the galaxy"). But what really came across excellently was the inherent 'dumbness' of the Dynamic Three - "Oh, we haven't got any parts because we drank five weapon shipments worth of ale." It's almost as if they only go privateering when they haven't got money for drinks anymore. It'd be like Trainspotting if it were more serious. tongue

Next, it's funny that "voice of reason" Blue then goes on to complain about not getting any new boots, which is both as cliché as it gets and also leaves the impression of bank robbers who immediately empty entire shopping malls with their new-found riches. It all reminded me of some general con/heist movie conventions that I somehow can't find examples for... maybe that image of Phil Collins and his girl living on Acapulco after having robbed a bank...? (from "Buster").

It then comes full circle when the absence of easy money, booze and boots makes them go at each other throats in a nanosecond. Also, while Cade can abuse his Jedi tricks for this line of work, he still hasn't earned any respect - when bargaining, he shoots stuff. Which he then has to pay for. Without having reached anything. I think the characters definitely work in this regard - they are bickering thugs, some more intelligent or more heroic, but still thugs. Like the (movie) bounty hunters, for example - Fett is brighter than the bunch of them combined, but he still falls into the Sarlacc during the sidestory. So when Cade and his gang run around doing scoundrel stuff and not being too bright, it's very amusing.

In contrast, I don't think they adapt so well to the large galactic stuff, because unlike Han, they don't have "straight friends" to set them on the right path. Han (and Chewie, who wasn't afraid to show his heart of gold anyway) changed for Luke's friendship and Leia's love. He evolved from being a small-time smuggler to someone fighting for big causes. Now, Cade (and his crew, which would follow them because of their role as companions) already had a chance to follow his "straight friends" on the right path - when he had the chance to re-join the Jedi and influence their thinking about the larger conflict. Or he could have chosen the Imperial Knights in order to do something on the large scale. But as of now, he hasn't got a role model (although already having seen Kol again and actually having done stuff that Luke had told him) and he hasn't got a faction behind him, no sense of belonging anywhere in the huge conflict. He doesn't stand for greater values that he could want to see enforced in the galaxy.

[To a degree, I believe this is why I had a hard time with Boba Fett evolving from the eternal bounty hunter to Mandalorian leader, because so much about his life was about not taking a side. He worked for the Empire but wasn't part of the Empire (imagine if Episode V had established him as an official agent like X-7 or Kir Kanos). He's "dying" in the sidestory, not in the huge battle. And even if we factor in his father figure, we have a guy who's selling his DNA to one side creating an army for the other side. The highest motive (besides movie-supported money and clone kid sentimentality) that has been attributed to him was being against the Jedi. Not for anything, but against a special faction. Once his revenge had been enacted, he wouldn't have had any interest whatsoever in who's steering the galaxy, going back to his 9-5 bounty hunting job. So what we know about him wouldn't really support that kind of character growth in Boba, either. Boba's development was rather motivated by Shysa and the Mandalorians, stuff that almost came out of nowhere.]


I'm still not too keen about Starbuck, and I guess that might become a problem for me as her role is getting bigger over the next few issues. BTW, telling the story of how she got the assignment in retrospect struck me as "noteworthy different", but still somewhat distracting. I know that it was supposed to be something different, but to me it rather felt like "oh, we had no logical place to put these four panels in" - or almost like those were forgotten on an earlier page wink . It doesn't help that it's only exposition we already got from the earlier scene and the intro of this scene - Starbuck is going to Tatooine because her mother orders her to. It would mostly help new readers who hadn't seen her fly a starfighter before and who didn't know about her primary role, but even then it could have been placed somewhere else.

Which makes me think that it's a bit... unhappy that she needs to get a new profession in order to participate in this story in the first place. She's a pilot, but we have no use for a pilot. So she's also got black ops training. All just to give Corde an excuse to send her to meet Cade, if that's the plan (if not, I don't know what her plan is; just angering the moff would be a little mundane). It would have been a bit more organic to have her assigned as fighter escort for a fake freighter or something like that; get the pieces to where they need to go without changing their movement rules.

Oh, and the Moff didn't come across all that snow-cold because she was sitting in that lush garden. Maybe if she'd opted for a fridge-design interior (might be better protection against bomb blasts, too wink ). Anyway, she rather reminded me of X-Men's Storm.

Lord_Hydronium posted:
So what makes people think he's the hero?
Being the hero doesn't necessarily involve heroics - it's just that this is the main character who is the center of the story (Hero's Journey). And while there's lots of other stuff going on when Cade is not around, Cade is the anchor. He's at the center of the major arcs (I'm pretty sure JD as the main artist is the only one who's drawn him in Legacy). If you look at the OT, it's Luke's story, and if you look at the PT and the whole saga, it's Anakin's story. Which doesn't mean that other characters like Obi-Wan and Leia can't have stories of their own.

 

-----signature-----
Jacen had learned that one can meet the Universe [...] with fear, or with hatred, or with despair.
Or one can choose to meet it with love.
Jacen had chosen.
But still, he was astonished to discover that the Universe could love him back.
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Master_Keralys  6379 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered: Oct '03
39907_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 7/1 5:29am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
Though - and this is important, I think - on that last note, I just realized that Anakin is certainly the main character of the prequels, but he's not their hero. Obi-Wan Kenobi is. thinking

 

-----signature-----
God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself.
The craziest story ever told.
The truest.
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Manisphere  2937 posts
Registered: Aug '07
51444_WH419: Imperial Knight
Date Posted: 7/1 7:10am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
Grey1 posted:
It all reminded me of some general con/heist movie conventions that I somehow can't find examples for... maybe that image of Phil Collins and his girl living on Acapulco after having robbed a bank...? (from "Buster").


Whoa? Now that's an arcane reference! shock mischief


Grey1 posted:
It then comes full circle when the absence of easy money, booze and boots makes them go at each other throats in a nanosecond. Also, while Cade can abuse his Jedi tricks for this line of work, he still hasn't earned any respect - when bargaining, he shoots stuff. Which he then has to pay for. Without having reached anything. I think the characters definitely work in this regard - they are bickering thugs, some more intelligent or more heroic, but still thugs. Like the (movie) bounty hunters, for example - Fett is brighter than the bunch of them combined, but he still falls into the Sarlacc during the sidestory. So when Cade and his gang run around doing scoundrel stuff and not being too bright, it's very amusing.


This pretty much sums up my feeling about the issue. I didn't mind Cade's backslide...this time! I enjoyed the irreverence. Shooting off his rifle indoors at Muz's without warning or reason. I laughed out loud.

 

-----signature-----
"Head of State, a Sith is just a Jedi who's gone off his meds."-Natasi Daala
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Grey1  1730 posts
Registered: Nov '00
44285_Ebon Hawk
Date Posted: 7/1 9:05am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
Manisphere posted:
Grey1 posted:
It all reminded me of some general con/heist movie conventions that I somehow can't find examples for... maybe that image of Phil Collins and his girl living on Acapulco after having robbed a bank...? (from "Buster").


Whoa? Now that's an arcane reference! shock mischief
You know, I never saw the movie, only the video clip. Which apparently isn't available on Youtube. So I leave you with this.

peace tongue

Master_Keralys posted:
Though - and this is important, I think - on that last note, I just realized that Anakin is certainly the main character of the prequels, but he's not their hero. Obi-Wan Kenobi is. thinking
Hm, how so? Personally I don't really see it... Obi-Wan is definitely the role model for good people, and very heroic (and also one of my favourite characters), but I don't see him going through the stations of a Hero's Journey. He's very marginal in Ep1, in which he at least has a kind-of-arc in taking the place of his master. And I don't really see him evolving during Eps 2&3 at all... thinking

 

-----signature-----
Jacen had learned that one can meet the Universe [...] with fear, or with hatred, or with despair.
Or one can choose to meet it with love.
Jacen had chosen.
But still, he was astonished to discover that the Universe could love him back.
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
CurlyWookie  190 posts
Registered: Feb '09
6495_Joruus C'baoth
Date Posted: 7/2 9:51am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
I always saw Obi Wan as the PT hero too. How does Anakin go through the stations of the hero's journy in the PT? He ends as the villian.

 

Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Ulicus  7359 posts
Registered: Jul '05
41990_Duron Qel-Droma
Date Posted: 7/2 10:10am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
Anakin does abide by the Hero's Journey throughout the entire Saga... sort of. It just become's a "dark Hero's journey" from Atonement with the Father onwards.

Wikipedia posted:

Atonement with the Father

In this step the person must confront and be initiated by whatever holds the ultimate power in his or her life. In many myths and stories this is the father, or a father figure who has life and death power. This is the center point of the journey. All the previous steps have been moving in to this place, all that follow will move out from it. Although this step is most frequently symbolized by an encounter with a male entity, it does not have to be a male; just someone or thing with incredible power.


Campbell (included in the wiki article) talks about how this moment involves abandoning the 'dragon'. And when you think about one of the devices Stover employed in the RotS novel....

So, yeah, following on from Anakin's Atonement with the (Dark) Father, Apotheosis (Anakin to Vader) and the Ultimate Boon (power of the dark side) become bad things.

The next step, of course, is Refusal of the Return. wink

 

-----signature-----
This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though?
An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense.
Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
CurlyWookie  190 posts
Registered: Feb '09
6495_Joruus C'baoth
Date Posted: 7/2 1:55pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
Anakin is on the hero's path, but doesn't complete it in the PT. Just looking at the first three films, Obi Wan is the hero. Obi Wan lost his protective figure when Qui Gon died and had atonement when Yoda Knighted him in the first movie.

 

Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Kwenn  9850 posts
Registered: Mar '01
8059_Qui-Gon Jinn
Date Posted: 7/3 10:32am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
I'd say Obi-Wan's hero's journey starts with meeting Anakin (Call to Adventure). He initially refuses to train him, but after he takes up his mentor's sword (Supernatural Aid) he crosses the threshold into Jedi Knighthood. Anakin becomes his trial as a mentor, although there's not much of an atonement for him (unless you count realizing Dooku is evil, or if Qui-Gon's immortality had been more of an issue). His Ultimate Boon is Luke himself, as the apprentice Anakin should have been, and his arc is rounded off nicely by becoming Master of Two Worlds. I think Obi-Wan is certainly left as the primary hero by the end of the Prequels, and it's a shame he's immediately transformed back into the Mentor in ANH.

 

-----signature-----
"A true Knight, Qui-Gon is. Forever on his own quest."
- Yoda, Cloak of Deception
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History