Jedi Council Forums - Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)

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Author	Topic: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
Manisphere Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 7/3 11:23am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	I wouldn't say Obi-Wan goes through the Hero's Journey. He never had to. He was already a sterling example of when the Jedi get it right in all areas by the time TPM opens. He definitely goes through a journey with Anakin. I just don't think it's the Hero's one. -----signature----- "Head of State, a Sith is just a Jedi who's gone off his meds."-Natasi Daala
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Ulicus Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 7/3 11:39am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4) - Date Edited: 7/3 11:41am (2 edits total) Edited By: Ulicus
	Manisphere posted: He was already a sterling example of when the Jedi get it right in all areas by the time TPM opens. Except for his dismissal of "pathetic life forms", anyway. Obi wasn't some paragon of virtue in TPM, IMO, not by a long shot. -----signature----- This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though? An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense. Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
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QuentinGeorge Registered: Dec '03	Date Posted: 7/3 5:24pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	You know guys, not every hero has to go on Campbell's "hero's journey". -----signature----- Yar
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Darth-Ghost Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 7/3 5:26pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Yeah, it's more of an analysis of past stories than a rule for writing future stories.
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MercenaryAce Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 7/3 7:01pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	QuentinGeorge posted: You know guys, not every hero has to go on Campbell's "hero's journey". Eh, the hero's journey is so vague and general, it would be hard someone not fulfilling it. -----signature----- "I am no man...I am a space station!" Another star wars ships, droids and troops site: http://armiesofstarwars.com/ It does have info found nowhere Move all sig, for great justice
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Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 7/3 8:18pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	QuentinGeorge posted: You know guys, not every hero has to go on Campbell's "hero's journey". But, Quentin, don't you know THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO WRITE A GOOD HERO PERIOD? It's the MONOMYTH! Mono! You've got to follow the outline slavishly! I mean, come on, every vaguely heroic character has to be squeezed into the mold! Make your definitions as figurative as necessary to accommodate the heroes you want to praise, and as literal as necessary to reject the heroic journeys you don't care for! -----signature----- "Is there a captain's hat involved in this?"
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 7/3 9:23pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Well, the monomyth, by its nature, tends to reflect a Western male perspective more than anything. In my culture preservation work, I (for lolz) tried to apply it to non-Western traditions. Usually one or more (often many) elements were missing. Especially the father thing, but that's because Westerners have the Oedipal conflict and everything associated with that.
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Robimus Registered: Jul '07	Date Posted: 7/3 10:28pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	This wasn't a top issue for me, I'll leave it at that. The one thought that I keep coming back to is this. What if Gunner and Cade end up pulling a Leia/Luke from ESB? What if they kiss? -----signature----- I am forever seeking the damutek of Hooley Krekk Oh, woe! Oh, misery! Oh, unhappiness. Hooley Krekk where are you? . http://www.cccomiccon.com http://www.actionfigurenews.ca
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Grey1 Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 7/4 5:42am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Robimus posted: The one thought that I keep coming back to is this. What if Gunner and Cade end up pulling a Leia/Luke from ESB? What if they kiss? My first reaction was "it's more plausible that they'd kill each other", but I think that in Legacy's world, they could even end up sleeping together before issue 4. I don't even know how I would call what makes me think this way; it's not really "gritty realism". Maybe, like with Galactica, "highly genre-typical fictionalized gritty realism"... Havac posted: QuentinGeorge posted: You know guys, not every hero has to go on Campbell's "hero's journey". But, Quentin, don't you know THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO WRITE A GOOD HERO PERIOD? It's the MONOMYTH! Mono! You've got to follow the outline slavishly! I mean, come on, every vaguely heroic character has to be squeezed into the mold! Make your definitions as figurative as necessary to accommodate the heroes you want to praise, and as literal as necessary to reject the heroic journeys you don't care for! I'd like to remind everybody that we're talking about films by George Lucas. So whether the Hero's Journey makes sense or is total elitist rubbish is not really important. I just think that it's important to see these movies the way they were intended. Of course Obi-Wan is "Stover's ultimate Jedi" and a much nicer guy than Anakin. But it's a difference if you say "for me, Obi-Wan was the character that I would declare a hero based on his virtues" or "in the story construct, Anakin is the hero because of the focus that the story chooses". Just like the Rebel Alliance weren't just stupid domestic terrorists who did bad things against the legitimate Imperial government that kept the trains on time. DarthIktomi posted: Well, the monomyth, by its nature, tends to reflect a Western male perspective more than anything. In my culture preservation work, I (for lolz) tried to apply it to non-Western traditions. Usually one or more (often many) elements were missing. Especially the father thing, but that's because Westerners have the Oedipal conflict and everything associated with that. I'm no expert regarding Campbell, but I worked on two papers that partly dealt with the Hero's Journey during my studies. The way I understand it is that Campbell didn't mean to have found the overall 100% exact blueprint for every story. Of course some elements can be missing, or be found in variation. Also, it's evident that he put it into "Western male terms" to get his points across. The Father, for example, wouldn't need to be a male figure, just like the Belly of the Whale doesn't really involve a whale in most cases. I also remember that while Luke's story is closely based on the Hero's Journey, Anakin's story can rather be seen in the second part of "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" - The Cosmogonic Cycle. Just looking at the chapter titles feels like reading a summary of Anakin's story. Darth-Ghost posted: Yeah, it's more of an analysis of past stories than a rule for writing future stories. Yeah, about that... Wikipedia posted: Christopher Vogler, a Hollywood film producer and writer, wrote a memo for Disney Studios on the use of The Hero with a Thousand Faces as a guide for scriptwriters; this memo influenced the creation of such films as Aladdin, The Lion King, and Beauty and the Beast. Vogler later expanded the memo and published it as the book The Writer's Journey: Mythic Structure For Writers, which became the inspiration for a number of successful Hollywood films and is believed to have been used in the development of the Matrix series. Try it with any recent adventure movie. Back in 2003 I took a glimpse at The Matrix and Pirates Of The Caribbean, and with both movies you're done in thirty seconds. But I guess that most adventure stories rather emulate our previous conceptions of adventure stories than Campbell's explicit analysis. And that's a coda to where Campbell started in the first place; why do so many stories sound the same? MercenaryAce posted: Eh, the hero's journey is so vague and general, it would be hard someone not fulfilling it. Exactly. So of course Obi-Wan's life can be attributed to this pattern. Not having seen the film, I bet that Phil Collins' character on Buster can be attributed to this, too. Or Gwyneth Paltrow in Flight Girls (you see, it's quality entertainment week ). Or Dante Hicks in Clerks, although the movie explicitly does not show a life-changing event and therefore doesn't have a climax like a myth normally has, so you can't really go for an all-out comparison. But then take any other Kevin Smith film - Mallrats, Jersey Girl, Clerks 2. You just have to bend Campbell's choice of words enough and you get a very, very basic story. Because that is what Campbell was looking for. My point is that Lucas is explicitly telling Anakin's story. Whether Obi-Wan (who has the most screen time besides Anakin) or Yoda or Artoo as characters go through these stations is, at that moment, irrelevant. -----signature----- Jacen had learned that one can meet the Universe [...] with fear, or with hatred, or with despair. Or one can choose to meet it with love. Jacen had chosen. But still, he was astonished to discover that the Universe could love him back.
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 7/4 6:14am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Perhaps. But we're talking, four stages. The point is that Campbell was using too much psychoanalysis.
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ThisIsMadness91 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 7/4 9:39am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Robimus posted: This wasn't a top issue for me, I'll leave it at that. The one thought that I keep coming back to is this. What if Gunner and Cade end up pulling a Leia/Luke from ESB? What if they kiss? Then I will always have fantasies of Ganner punching and kicking Cade into a pulpy, bloody mess . -----signature----- Zayne Carricks beats Cade Skywalker every day of the week.
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sonnymyson Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 7/4 10:23am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	ThisIsMadness91 posted: Robimus posted: This wasn't a top issue for me, I'll leave it at that. The one thought that I keep coming back to is this. What if Gunner and Cade end up pulling a Leia/Luke from ESB? What if they kiss? Then I will always have fantasies of Gunner punching and kicking Cade into a pulpy, bloody mess . Fixed... and seconded. -----signature----- http://communities.livejournal.com/quinlanvos100 visit the Coachelle System ! http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=19559852&replies Zekk gets kissed: http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=27298401&brd=10477&replies
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Jedi Trace Title: • SouthEast RSA • FanFiction Manager Registered: Dec '99	Date Posted: 7/4 10:42am Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4) - Date Edited: 7/4 10:45am (2 edits total) Edited By: Jedi Trace
	Uh, yah. Considering Gunn’s opinion of Cade, I’m thinking she’d hand him his teeth if he even thought about it. [edit] If he’s going to see any non-Zeltron action in this arc, my money’s on the new assassin chick. -----signature----- "Luke Skywalker kicks ass. Next question." - Tom Taylor "Sometimes bad guys are the only good guys you get." - Leverage
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ThisIsMadness91 Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 7/4 2:23pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	That works too, but I prefer Ganner . -----signature----- Zayne Carricks beats Cade Skywalker every day of the week.
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Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 7/6 10:19pm Subject: Legacy #37: Tatooine, part 1 (of 4)
	Meh, ok issue. Although after the awesomeness that was Gar Stazi and the Galactic Alliance Remnant in the last issue, almost anything would be a letdown after that, and more of Cade running away from stuff got old long ago. Great art, and nice to see a Mon Cal ship (even if it was being destroyed), although that really makes me wonder about how long some ships can last. Although seeing the Millennium Falcon show up someday would be great, but that's a long way off, if ever. Nice to see more ship designs, but Cade's story was easily the most boring part of the issue. Funny to see an Imp officer happy to see what he thinks is a Jedi, although considering it was between a Jedi or Black Sun, the Jedi's probably the better choice. Cade's situation was kind of boring, since its the typical outlaws/western/rogue/fringe character status quo. Make a little bit of money, lose money, eternally penniless but ship still keeps flying somehow, until the plot says otherwise. Serenity/Firefly is probably one of the more famous examples (although there was recently a comic mini-series where the crew actually was rich for a while... then lost the money). Cade's still on a downward spiral, and Deliah can't do much to stop him, and they've been burning credits and now they're stuck. And while I'm glad to see more of the fringe (something the novels don't spend much time on these days), I'm kind of tired of the old "backstabbing crooks leak secrets by hologram", especially multiple times in one issue. Fun to see Naxy again, and at least he was smart enough to just run for it. Hm, a missionary con, wonder if that's a hint that Astraal Vao will show up again. Usually in these kind of situations the rogues will run a con and something will go wrong, and having a real missionary could screw up their con, and haven't seen her for a long, long time. Although she's a pretty minor character, but then we've seen Naxy quite a few times since Broken too, so who knows. Nothing too much in this issue, although several plots are starting to move again (Calixte plotting, Gunner angry, etc.). While a Luke/Leia situation would be funny, they'll probably be too busy trying to kill each other, and/or defending themselves from those assassins. Not too surprising that a Moff in a nowhere place sold out, although I'd hope Morrigan Corde would be more than smart enough to figure that out, sooner or later. Oh well, still debating about whether to keep buying this series, but at least plots are moving again. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
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