Author Topic: Invasion #1: Refugees, part 1 (of 5)
Grey1  1722 posts
Registered: Nov '00
44285_Ebon Hawk
Date Posted: 7/31 1:40am Subject: Invasion #1: Refugees, part 1 (of 5) - Date Edited: 7/31 1:42am (1 edits total) Edited By: Grey1
yadiel posted:
Havac posted:
That's a reference to Anakin Solo.

I do not insist in it being a reference to Finn or anything else, but I doubt that's a reference to Anakin, because he is present in that very moment, and Mara also describes him in the same paragraph, being a reference to Anakin makes no sence, she would have said that that Luke was training Anakin not some new random apprentice, plus Anaking is far from being a "new" apprentice.
I think it's a reference to Anakin, too, but I understand what you mean, and if the context is vague enough we could always retcon it.

The paragraph is describing how Luke does a thing that is seen as a significant investment in a stable future: Training a "new apprentice". "New" doesn't really mean "it has been less than a year that he took him on" but rather "future Jedi Knight" - "we're still investing time and resources into forming a young man into a Jedi Knight". Mara is also thinking in very general terms here, because whether it's Anakin or not, training an apprentice for the future would always be an optimistic action. And this way not every sentence referring to a character also uses that character's name. So it's a bit of "broadened thinking" that doesn't need to directly refer to the name of the character we know. To be honest, I think always referring to the name we know would result in a more kids-oriented book anyway; compare how many of the kids book always need to relate to movie locations and equipment.

Yes, some of the regular novels fall into that trap, too - I especially think of Luke and Callista taking the scenic route through the original movie locations. But normally, it shouldn't be overdone. tongue

Anyway, it's a totally cool idea to work our new hero into this. We should check the context and then always refer to it so that someday a source material writer will quote us, and then it's canon. grin

 

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yadiel 
Registered: Jul '09
Date Posted: 8/1 12:46am Subject: Invasion #1: Refugees, part 1 (of 5)
This is the whole text, of the first paragraphs of chapter 4:


Balance Point: Chapter 4 posted:
Mara Jade Skywalker had been a wide-eyed child when Emperor Palpatine brought her to Coruscant. She'd survived Palpatine's training one hour and one day at a time. Now, everyone tended to think of Coruscant as ground zero again - this time, as the Yuuzhan Vong's ultimate objective.
Meanwhile, her husband was training another apprentice - obviously assuming there would be peace and justice to defend in the future. She wondered, though, if it was hope or just habit that kept them all sticking to business.
She stared over folded hands at her younger nephew. Seated next to Luke, wearing a light-brown tunic under his Jedi robe, dark-haired Anakin Solo had a saturnine intensity, a Corellian surname, and his father's wry lift to one eyebrow.


The mention of Anakin just after that is why I do not think they were refering to him. I'm guessing that Tyers might have intended it to be Danni Quee, the newest acquisition of the order, she was intended to have a major rol in Knightfall the trilogy that would have took place after Balance Point; but as that never took place any guess is possible.


I think it is a good oportunity to help the NJO Novels and Invasion Comic to coexists.

 

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Havac  14312 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 8/1 10:02am Subject: Invasion #1: Refugees, part 1 (of 5)
No, the fact that Anakin immediately appears is what means it's referring to him. "We're still optimistic. Luke's training an apprentice. Here's Luke's apprentice Anakin now." Really, does, "We're still optimistic. Luke's training an apprentice, Finn Galfridian. Here's Luke's apprentice Anakin Solo now" make any sense at all?

It's not written to be a nonsensical hash -- it's written to make sense. Anakin's name doesn't need to be used every single time he's referred to. The context clearly establishes that it's referring to Anakin. Why should Mara be thinking in random non-sequiturs? Why should Luke's apprentice Anakin not count as his apprentice mentioned a few lines earlier?

 

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novajoe23  95 posts
Registered: May '06
47885_Zayne Carrick
Date Posted: 8/1 7:23pm Subject: Invasion #1: Refugees, part 1 (of 5)
I agree with Havac in that the next paragraph talking about Anakin strongly suggests that that's who Tyers was referring to as the "new apprentice," not to mention the fact that he's sitting next to Luke in Jedi robes, as any apprentice would. But since Anakin is not expressly referred to as Luke's "new apprentice," it does leave open the possibility of Finn taking that role in a potential retcon, if the need for one arises due to something in the comic series. This is unlike The Clone Wars, where they expressly state the date that each event is taking place on in some of the novels and comics, even though previously established continuity says something completely different (i.e., the date of Anakin's knighthood at 4 weeks after Geonosis in Wild Space).

 

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Fichu-Sorrenessi 
Registered: May '06
39903_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 8/3 9:54am Subject: Invasion #1: Refugees, part 1 (of 5)
I too wondered about that statement as it was alreadywell established in prior NJO novels that Luke had "two apprentices"; Jacen and Anakin. I can't agree that the context implies that Anakin is the "new" apprentice in question. The speaker is Mara Jade. Anakin was an 'old' apprentice in relation to his master. Her closeness to the other characters renders her statement insensible if the reference is being made to Anakin. Perhaps all of you are correct who say that the author's/story's intent is toldwith Anakin in mind, but, it seems to me that the text allows for an alternate reading. I'm not convinved that its Anakin who is intended.

 

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Havac  14312 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 8/4 5:15pm Subject: Invasion #1: Refugees, part 1 (of 5)
It's not "new" -- it's "another" apprentice that he's training. And Anakin is another apprentice.

And let's look at that text again.

Meanwhile, her husband was training another apprentice - obviously assuming there would be peace and justice to defend in the future. She wondered, though, if it was hope or just habit that kept them all sticking to business.

She stared over folded hands at her younger nephew.


Sentence one: Luke is training an apprentice -- "another" in the context of Luke's fifteen-year history training Jedi. Sentence two: digression to Mara's wondering. Sentence three (the second sentence to move the scene forward and continue establishing information, following right up on "yes Luke has an apprentice"): there's her younger nephew. Luke's training another apprentice. Here he sits. Luke's training an apprentice because he hopes for the future. Here's said apprentice.

The whole point of this scene is to introduce Anakin. This is his first appearance in the book. The whole scene is an introduction to the Mara-Luke-Anakin dynamic anchoring the plot thread. The sentence refers unambiguously to Anakin. Tyers was not out making up new one-mention apprentices to Luke. Trying to make the apprentice someone other than Anakin turns the paragraph and the scene into a nonsensical mishmash. Unless you're deliberately contorting the sentence to mean something it doesn't, completely severing it from all context around it, there is no possible way to make that sentence refer to anyone other than Anakin.

 

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Thrawn McEwok  13640 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: May '00
43231_Chiss Ewok
Date Posted: 8/5 3:55am Subject: Invasion #1: Refugees, part 1 (of 5)
Grey1 posted:
Oh, I agree. I'd also agree that the Prequel Big Three might have had a harder time to communicate with the ordinary people, but I think this has to do with both the times and the places. I definitely wouldn't go as far as those who dislike the prequels because the main characters aren't the same "scoundrels" as in the OT; after all, Lucas deliberately wanted to have other characters. If you look at Obi-Wan, he starts out as some kind of snob who thinks himself above Jar Jar (and funnily that's the other thing prequel bashers are doing tongue ) and the Gungans, but ten years later he's a somewhat more relaxed guy who's enjoying a drink while hunting scum in the lower levels of Coruscant, and who's best friends with the chef from Mel's Drive In.

The Elite are people, too. tongue


It all seems a little lopsided; you need a Han to balance the Leia, IMHO. tongue

Grey1 posted:
That said, Artorias' royalty comes across as really ordinary. There's a spare crown in the backpack that the king can wear when officially defending his planet, and the prince has some kind of luxury vest. Which he wears with stupid goggles on his head. It's a bit like a british prince wearing a reversed cap that doesn't match his suit. It also speaks volumes that nobody here guessed that these four people wouldn't be ordinary until the comic flat out told us. So expect more Leia and less Padmé. Because it's Leia's times, and not Padmé's.


This is true. grin Although I hope that what this discussion shows is that Star Wars: Invasion #1 works great whichever side of the prequels you look at it from! grin grin

Finn's braided vest had a "Beatles chic" vibe to me - Carnaby Street, c. 1967. Young rebels, and all that. tongue

Grey1 posted:
I don't know about that, but - come on. wink The Jedi Knight series already had Mara and the Noghri in it, and if a casual SW fan (or a casual SW game designer who also thought it a good idea to have Morgan Katarn appear as a Force Ghost, and mixed up the date in the opening crawl while he was at it) saw a blue guy with red eyes (especially back in 2000), who would he most likely think of? Papa Smurf? tongue


You have a point, but canon could produce a recton if, for example, it was decided the only Chiss outside the Unknown Regions in this period were Thrawn and Spiker; he could be Flim, working off-hours after a stand-up gig. tongue

CooperTFN posted:
Hung over Papa Smurf?


Feesa = Smurfette!? laugh

Havac posted:
No, the fact that Anakin immediately appears is what means it's referring to him. "We're still optimistic. Luke's training an apprentice. Here's Luke's apprentice Anakin now." Really, does, "We're still optimistic. Luke's training an apprentice, Finn Galfridian. Here's Luke's apprentice Anakin Solo now" make any sense at all?

It's not written to be a nonsensical hash -- it's written to make sense. Anakin's name doesn't need to be used every single time he's referred to. The context clearly establishes that it's referring to Anakin. Why should Mara be thinking in random non-sequiturs? Why should Luke's apprentice Anakin not count as his apprentice mentioned a few lines earlier?


I'm with Havac on this. tongue Mara's not exactly being reasonable; as well as introducing Anakin, the purpose of this scene to show that she's getting annoyed with Luke... so it's likely Tyers meant Anakin...

That said, it would be possible to read an understated reference to Finn into that line. "Luke's training another apprentice; [reflects wordlessly on Finn, then turns attention to Anakin, as the apprentice who's actually present]..."

I've read this scene over a lot of times, and it's one of my favourites in the NJO - I'm pretty sure this idea has occurred before, either to me or someone else... peace

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FireJade  1677 posts
Registered: Nov '05
22822_Mara Jade
Date Posted: 8/5 10:19am Subject: Invasion #1: Refugees, part 1 (of 5)
Thrawn McEwok posted:
Mara's not exactly being reasonable; as well as introducing Anakin, the purpose of this scene to show that she's getting annoyed with Luke... so it's likely Tyers meant Anakin...
I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning... tired

 

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