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Author	Topic: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
S1thari Registered: Oct '08	Date Posted: 7/2 9:15pm Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	Ben did seem a little out of character in OMEN as well. He seemed unusually bratty, sort of like how he was in BETRAYAL-TEMPEST. He did have his moments in the novel where his dialogue and reactions certainly matched what I'd expect them to be after all he's been through, but some stuff just felt very counter-productive to what Ben's character should feel like at this point.
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Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 7/2 9:28pm Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	Lord_Onveh posted: Honestly. I really really do not like Allana. "Let's go there!" "Sweety. . .it says warning." "I wanna go in there!" Ten seconds later she's screaming and holding onto Han. It's like "Well what the krif did you expect?!" She was perfectly fine until the animals got loose. As for Ben, I didn't notice a problem with him. He's a mature character, yes, but he's still only sixteen years old. He's not sixty-year-old Luke. He's going to act like a sixteen-year-old kid occasionally. -----signature----- "Is there a captain's hat involved in this?"
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PointGiven Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 7/2 9:46pm Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	Lord_Onveh posted: Ben Skywalker was pretty alright in Fury. After that his character just got boring IMO. And I understand why. It's because he's suppose to be the spiritual successor of Anakin Solo. And well. . .he's just not. And it's my fault for looking at him in such a light, but that's how it is. I was pretty pissed at myself when Ben screamed out 'Oh! Teach me Flow Walking!' Pretty pissed because I was just thinking in my head a 16 year old Anakin Solo wouldn't be a little krif like this. And it just leads to me thinking Ben can be a little krif if he wants to, he's NOT Anakin Solo. Well why are you trying to compare Ben Skywalker to Anakin Solo? I personally don't think Del Rey is trying to make Ben like Anakin Solo, they have such a marked difference in personality. Sure he has more pagetime, but he's Luke's son and 16 years old, of course he's going to get more pagetime. Ben is quite an enjoyable character (and one of my favorites) if you treat him as the unique character he is and not get hung up on comparisons to the long dead Anakin Solo. Lord_Onveh posted: But then Ben's whole attitude of 'We need to learn exactly what Jacen did!' And then when asked if he will do as well as his cousin he freaks out like 'I don't want to be anything like Jacen.' Make up your mind kid. Maybe I'll refer to him as Not-Anakin. Learning one's powers doesn't mean you have to follow in their footsteps. Ben isn't confused or anything about being like Jacen. First of all he wants to learn the power to see if he can keep Jacen from falling, which he finds out is impossible, so its not like he wants to use flow-walking for evil or his own twisted agenda (like Jacen did with Tahiri). Therefore it doesn't seem ridiculous to me that Ben later remarks that he doesn't want to be like Jacen, considering the entire point of learning the power was to help save the guy. And go ahead and refer to him as Not-Anakin. He's not, was probably never meant to be and that is a good thing. Heck refer to him as his actual name of Ben. That isn't Anakin. -----signature----- Think you can name the most important Sith Lords? Test your knowledge: http://www.sporcle.com/games/Caedus/sith_lords Also test your SW military knowledge with the Wars of Star Wars: http://www.sporcle.com/games/Caedus/wars_starwars
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Darth-Ghost Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 7/2 10:17pm Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	What are the similarities between Anakin Solo and Ben Skywalker? If you could sum each one of these characters up in a few sentences, what would your descriptions be?
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S1thari Registered: Oct '08	Date Posted: 7/3 1:29am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 7/3 1:54am (5 edits total) Edited By: S1thari
	Darth-Ghost posted: What are the similarities between Anakin Solo and Ben Skywalker? If you could sum each one of these characters up in a few sentences, what would your descriptions be? Anakin Solo - Very pure-hearted and decisive unlike his brother and sister; strong-willed and determined, always had a goal, always knew what he wanted. Always had an endgame, even for a young boy. Old before his time. Ben Skywalker - Created simply to have another Skywalker name in the SWEU other than Luke; there to eventually become an ancestor to Kol and Cade. Strong willed, forced to grow up fast. No other plausible purpose that I can foresee. Both grew up during times of war; both had fairly key roles to play and were forced to grow up a lot earlier than any kid should ever have to, both had to confront the dark side at an early age. Those are the only real similarities I can see. To me, Ben and Anakin Solo are worlds apart, with Anakin being about 10x more entertaining to read about and a lot easier to become emotionally invested in. Ben just feels too... obligatory. Like he has to exist, and not because he has a destiny to fulfill or a purpose, but because he has to have a son and a grandson and great grandson, etc. And he has to be Luke's heir. Beyond that, I feel nothing else for him, unfortunately...
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Darth-Ghost Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 7/3 2:16am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 7/3 2:19am (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth-Ghost
	S1thari posted: Darth-Ghost posted: What are the similarities between Anakin Solo and Ben Skywalker? If you could sum each one of these characters up in a few sentences, what would your descriptions be? Anakin Solo - Very pure-hearted and decisive unlike his brother and sister; strong-willed and determined, always had a goal, always knew what he wanted. Always had an endgame, even for a young boy. Old before his time. Ben Skywalker - Created simply to have another Skywalker name in the SWEU other than Luke; there to eventually become an ancestor to Kol and Cade. Strong willed, forced to grow up fast. No other plausible purpose that I can foresee. Both grew up during times of war; both had fairly key roles to play and were forced to grow up a lot earlier than any kid should ever have to, both had to confront the dark side at an early age. Those are the only real similarities I can see. To me, Ben and Anakin Solo are worlds apart, with Anakin being about 10x more entertaining to read about and a lot easier to become emotionally invested in. Ben just feels too... obligatory. Like he has to exist, and not because he has a destiny to fulfill or a purpose, but because he has to have a son and a grandson and great grandson, etc. And he has to be Luke's heir. Beyond that, I feel nothing else for him, unfortunately... Well, during NJO and DARK NEST, even at the beginning of LOTF, we did not yet know that Kol, Cade, and Nat even existed yet. Originally, originally, the NJO was going to start with Luke and Mara's children already grown up, and then have Jacen die in VECTOR PRIME and Troy Denning was originally planned to kill off Luke in STAR BY STAR, with Anakin Solo as the philosophic and indecisive new hero. When Lucas vetoed that idea, we got Jacen as the main hero instead, Chewbacca dying in VECTOR PRIME and Anakin in STAR BY STAR. Then, they weren't even going to give Luke a child. But the author of BALANCE POINT decided to make Mara pregnant, so there is some ray of hope in the first half of the series, and so Luke finally has a child. I'm sure Ben can become an interesting character in his own right. In LOTF, he took on investigator/spy kind of characteristics, and seemed to be more like his mother. I'm sure they won't turn him into another Luke clone. Plus, Anakin Solo sounds too perfect, there needs to be some conflict in the main character, some journey for him to go on, or else the story goes static.
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S1thari Registered: Oct '08	Date Posted: 7/3 3:29am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	I'm aware that the Legacy Skywalkers did not yet exist when Ben was created, I know the NJO's backstory. I'm saying that this is how I feel currently. I also feel that Anakin Solo's "journey" during the Vong war was vastly more exciting emotionally than Ben's was in LOTF. Perhaps that's merely due to the failings of the LOTF series compared to the success of the NJO. Darth-Ghost posted: I'm sure Ben can become an interesting character in his own right. In LOTF, he took on investigator/spy kind of characteristics, and seemed to be more like his mother. I'm sure they won't turn him into another Luke clone. See, I just don't feel anything when it comes to Ben. There's nothing there, unlike Anakin. It's difficult for me to picture Ben growing up to be anything more than another Luke Skywalker. Maybe if his character were closer to Cade's, or even Nat's, I'd have more of an interest, something to invest in emotionally; but as it stands now, Ben is too similar to Luke, and I've been reading about Luke Skywalker for years now. But I do hope you're right. I would be very happy if they found an intriguing and original role for Ben to play, something other than the heir to the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, the hero who's always wrestling with his conscience, always struggling to do the right thing. I just don't see it at this point. I feel he is doomed to an monotonous and obligatory fate.
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killfire Registered: Jan '01	Date Posted: 7/3 5:03am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	I think it would be helpful for both the readers and the authors if Callista, Akanah or whoever appeared with another son of Luke. Hey, I wouldn't mind if Luke had more offspring during FOTJ. That would leave Ben's possible future more open and allow us to care for him. Right now it is certain he'll survive because he needs to start the line for Kol and Cade. That fixes his future somehow ... almost like flow-walking -----signature----- iTunes / AmazonMp3 / lastfm.com: Alien AreA Latest record: Fringe Tunes
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S1thari Registered: Oct '08	Date Posted: 7/3 5:18am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 7/3 5:20am (1 edits total) Edited By: S1thari
	Exactly -- great idea. Sadly, I don't see TPTB having enough courage to do something like that...
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Lord_Onveh Registered: Mar '09	Date Posted: 7/3 7:19am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 7/3 7:27am (1 edits total) Edited By: Lord_Onveh
	That's a great idea killfire. I take back what I said earlier about not enjoying Ben's character after Fury. I thought he was alrgiht in Revelation, Invincible (though i didn't like his magical defeat of Tahiri), and Outcast. Something just got into me in this book I guess. Personally I think my problem is that Ben learned something Anakin didn't and it ticked me off (Krif, I can't even say this without looking like a rabid Anakin fanboy). Stupid reason, but that's the best I could come up with. I just think that if Ben wasn't always with Luke (though they do deserve time with each other after what happened in the last series) then he could grow into his own on his own. This series just seems like Luke is holding his hand the whole way through it. As for Allana someone in the Review Thread summed it up nicely. Either stay at home Leia or Han, or get someone to babysit the little kriff. She's making them boring.
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Darth-Ghost Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 7/3 8:57am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 7/3 8:58am (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth-Ghost
	Lord_Onveh posted: As for Allana someone in the Review Thread summed it up nicely. Either stay at home Leia or Han, or get someone to babysit the little kriff. She's making them boring. I disagree, somewhat. What exactly would Han and Leia be doing, even without Allana? They were purposeless in the LOTF, and I hoped they would get Allana at the end, so they could have a real role to play again. I just don't think they've been using her right in FOTJ so far. Although it could all be deliberate, with Han and Leia taking Allana for granted, only for somethign terrible to happen to her (Jedi madness, possession by a Sith spirit, kidnapped, etc.) and Han/Leia vowing to get her back.
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JediMasterNicolas Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 7/3 9:00am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	To call back to the discussion of "slight changes caused by flow-walking" and how the Force would "course-correct" if anything important was changed...anybody else going to watch the Final Destination flicks as accidental flow-walking and the ensuing repercussions now? -----signature----- Where there's a Whill There's a Way
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Hendo255 Registered: Feb '09	Date Posted: 7/3 9:59am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 7/3 10:24am (2 edits total) Edited By: Hendo255
	JediMasterNicolas posted: To call back to the discussion of "slight changes caused by flow-walking" and how the Force would "course-correct" if anything important was changed...anybody else going to watch the Final Destination flicks as accidental flow-walking and the ensuing repercussions now? lol that was one of the examples I was going to use but I instead decided to go with The Time Machine since it's more well known. "See, I just don't feel anything when it comes to Ben. There's nothing there, unlike Anakin. It's difficult for me to picture Ben growing up to be anything more than another Luke Skywalker." Personally I see Ben more growing up to be like Mara than like his father and Anakin growing up to be more like Luke. Anakin even said that he was going to adopt the same methods/philosophy for the Force as Luke. ---- "Honestly. I really really do not like Allana. "Let's go there!" "Sweety. . .it says warning." "I wanna go in there!" Ten seconds later she's screaming and holding onto Han. It's like "Well what the krif did you expect?!" --- yea Allana annoys me as well... especially the whole "he was too inquisitive and ambitious to sit through classes" honestly... the majority of kids in the world would rather skip school and spend the day playing as well. But since she's so spoiled they actually let her stop going? If they were at war I could understand it but this irritates me. --- "Ben Skywalker was pretty alright in Fury. After that his character just got boring IMO. And I understand why. It's because he's suppose to be the spiritual successor of Anakin Solo. And well. . .he's just not. And it's my fault for looking at him in such a light, but that's how it is. I was pretty pissed at myself when Ben screamed out 'Oh! Teach me Flow Walking!' Pretty pissed because I was just thinking in my head a 16 year old Anakin Solo wouldn't be a little krif like this. And it just leads to me thinking Ben can be a little krif if he wants to, he's NOT Anakin Solo. But then Ben's whole attitude of 'We need to learn exactly what Jacen did!' And then when asked if he will do as well as his cousin he freaks out like 'I don't want to be anything like Jacen.' Make up your mind kid. Maybe I'll refer to him as Not-Anakin. But the Skywalker line is pretty dead to me now. Luke being the only redeeming factor." ---- he's 16... of course he's gonna want to learn something that seems so cool. You really think Anakin wouldn't have wanted to learn flow-walking? especially given if he was the one retracing Jacen's steps...(remember, Jacen was Ben's hero at one point) "need to learn exactly what Jacen did" he knew his dad didn't want him to learn. How else is he going to convince him? He doesn't exactly have a lot of ammo to use for his argument. If he didn't try to learn then people would be complaining "Ben doesn't act like a real 16 year old. A real 16 year old would be doing all he could to convince his dad to let him learn something so cool" and "a 16 year old Anakin Solo wouldn't be a little krif like this" but a 16yr old Luke would have been and he turned out alright lol Equate it to cars. when you were 16 odds are that you REALLY wanted to learn how to drive. and later after you had learned you had mellowed on the subject thinking at some point "this really isn't all it's cracked up to be" as for the Skywalker line being dead to you, save Luke... well I suppose they always could have never created Ben and then the whole series would be over when Luke died lol would you prefer that, or would you prefer having more books and comics set in the future -----signature----- Zayne is the Sith Emperor. Both use the Force, both lived around the same time and Zayne is friends with Gryph who is a notorious con-artist. See! it all fits together perfectly!
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Lord_Onveh Registered: Mar '09	Date Posted: 7/3 10:44am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	I guess I deserved that for being a little krif (Havac you got me saying this word too much!) myself, but there are a couple of things. Hmmm, I guess I shouldn't have said the entire skywalker line. I am a fan of Kol, Cade, and Nat. But the current era in the books, is what I"m talking about. Anakin Skywalkers descendents are, Ben, Jaina, and Allana. And I just feel like I've lost either which way I turn. I understand I'm not giving Ben a fair shot, I mean I must be turning a blind eye to Anakin Solo going against Luke's orders. "Do not go to Yavin moon." "I won't go." Ten seconds later. "Taking off now." So Anakin isn't infallible (he is dead afterall). Ben Skywalker has a true apprenticeship under Luke. Anakin and Jacen never really did. And if you look at 'We hav to take a Trip with Jacen Solo' you can see that most of their jedi experiences are hands on with a group of teenagers. They really had pretty much no hand holding throughout their jedi experiences. I am hopeful that somewhere along this series, Ben and Luke are forced to split up and we can see what Ben is made of on his own. Wait a minute. Though I could actually delete most of my upper post, I think I just now realized what the problem is. To put it blunt, Anakin Solo was a hero. And with him gone, it's like whose the hero now? Jacen Solo who turns into Darth Caedus? Luke Skywalker who handicaps himself? Earlier I said Ben Skywalker is suppose to be Anakin Solo, but that's not true. Ben Skywalker is suppose to be a Hero in my opinion. I'm just not seeing it yet.
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Hendo255 Registered: Feb '09	Date Posted: 7/3 11:33am Subject: The Official Fate of the Jedi: Omen Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	Lord_Onveh posted: I am hopeful that somewhere along this series, Ben and Luke are forced to split up and we can see what Ben is made of on his own. Wait a minute. Though I could actually delete most of my upper post, I think I just now realized what the problem is. To put it blunt, Anakin Solo was a hero. And with him gone, it's like whose the hero now? Jacen Solo who turns into Darth Caedus? Luke Skywalker who handicaps himself? Earlier I said Ben Skywalker is suppose to be Anakin Solo, but that's not true. Ben Skywalker is suppose to be a Hero in my opinion. I'm just not seeing it yet. yea I agree with you here. Ben hasn't gotten a chance to SHINE yet. He was way too young in NJO and Dark Nest and barely too young in LotF. But on the bright side, Ben now has the age and the "situation" (even tho he doesn't know it yet lol) to really step up. So hopefully he'll show us something in the next few books. Book 4, I think? Does feature him on the cover after all. If he can't make a major splash in this series I'll be all for ripping on him with you lol I just want to give him the chance to shine first(which is why I jumped to his defense so quickly). also I hope there's a moment where Luke will say to himself how strong Ben is becoming(not how fast he's growing up). Like in the very beginning of NJO for example, Jacen was watching Anakin's saber practice and said to himself that he was getting very good. Then the war started and he had the necessary tools. -----signature----- Zayne is the Sith Emperor. Both use the Force, both lived around the same time and Zayne is friends with Gryph who is a notorious con-artist. See! it all fits together perfectly!
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