beccatoria posted: Though DUDE yes that cover. I actually didn't get around to reading this novel until I'd read all the other Bantam novels because I was embarassed by that cover and just...thought I'd never be comfortable being seen in public with it... o_O
Charlemagne19 posted:I think that there's a certain responsibility to have an adolescent joy about the material as well. One of the serious issues that has been plaguing Star Wars since before the Prequels is the attempt to grim-dark the material up. It's something plaguing a lot of franchises with only a few of them managing to avoid it (disturbingly, despite the method used, Spiderman went through "One More Day" to avoid the grimdark).
Liliedhe posted: I have to disagree. Star Wars has room for both - for pulp and myth, for serious and campy. I would not be here if not for the Prequels and their more serious, more bittersweet tone. This was what attracted me to the franchise, to the point of me having discussions on a fan forum, something no other franchise ever got me to do. To insinuate that this different tone is somehow less legitimate, that it is a mistake and a failing to go in this direction instead of keeping only the more... humor oriented tone is something I find insulting, to me and all other fans who were won over by this aspect of the franchise as opposed to another. That said, I did not dislike this book. It has serious flaws, yes. It's also ok to read. But I honestly don't think it's justified to say this has more right to be "Star Wars" than Shatterpoint. Both have the same right. Star Wars is big enough for both.
Charlemagne19 posted: The reverse is true, Lil. If you feel that my tastes are somehow juvenile and without value, then I feel that you are being insulting. The simple fact is that I don't honestly enjoy trying to elevate a homage to Saturday Morning serials to the concept of high art. Also, there's no necessary link between "Fun" and "Humor." Tastes vary but I don't feel that dark and grim Star Wars works for me, except once (Dark Empire) Flash Gordon and most of the original X-men stories are purely Adolescent Joy but it doesn't mean they're FUNNY.
beccatoria posted:I think that explaining that Palpatine feared ALL the Nightsisters rather than simply Gethzerion is a better way of explaining Leia's comments than many but I still have a problem with it. I honestly don't think that Palpatine WOULD fear them. I mean, there was only ever him and his current apprentice, and he didn't fear 10,000 Jedi. With the entire might of the Empire behind him, not to mention, during later years, his own dark side force-users like his Hands, etc., the Nightsisters would not have proved a significant challenge to him. They were technologically comparatively primitive and confined to a single planet. He could have just firebombed it from orbit and solved his problem. I really wasn't a fan of that particular line from Leia; it really felt like Wolverton was trying to inflate Gethzerion's importance beyond sustainable levels and thus I couldn't take it seriously.
beccatoria posted: - So, this story had to be told. Han and Leia were the big romance of the movies - of course they have to end up together, and of course, we're gonna want a novel that tells the tale. Given that the ending (Leia ends up with Han) was something of a foregone conclusion, how do you think the novel handled the story? Did you believe that Leia would consider a political marriage? That Han would kidnap her?
beccatoria posted: - The other ingredient in the big three - Luke! Did you enjoy his story? In a novel that's essentially billed as a romantic comedy-adventure for Han and Leia, did the author do a good job of giving Luke something to do, or did he feel like a third wheel afterthought? Was it overly convenient that the Force Using Group of the week Luke is chasing was the same planet as the one Han ran off to with Leia?
beccatoria posted: - Hapes! By now, the Hapan Consortium is a staple political power in the EU. Do you have any new thoughts revisiting its first appearance? At the time, did you find it overly convenient that this massive political power had maintained independence even during the Empire? Did that undercut the Empire's authority and menace? Or did it widen the EU in an interesting way?
beccatoria posted: - Dathomir! Never really became quite the EU staple that Hapes did. Probably a large part of this is due to plot-related reasons and simply having more non-villainous or quasi-villainous characters from Hapes than Dathomir. But it's interesting they are introduced in the same novel as the Hapans, and I'd probably be remiss in not at least mentioning the issue of GIRLZ!!1!1!!! Hapes and Dathomir are both societies that make use of that pulp-era tradition of AMAZONS, albeit, in one instance, with a veneer of pretty dresses and a more political fighting style. What did you make of that? Pulp is a grand SW tradition, and one I personally think more of the novels should make use of, but equally, is it overkill to do it twice in the same novel?
ChildOfWinds posted: I have always been disappointed that Mother' Rell's prediction of "children" for Luke, never came true.
Jeff_Ferguson posted: Yeah, the witches are cool, but I never really understood why Palpatine quarantined the planet instead of just wiping them out. Has it ever been stated in canon that he wanted to leave open the option of recruiting some Nightsisters into his clan of Dark Acolytes?
Sinrebirth posted:beccatoria posted:Sinrebirth posted:Just an aside, but the Empire did conquer Hapes. It's a misconception that the Empire never did - CoPL itself stated the Empire conquered Hapes. So it never undercut the Empire in my mind. REALLY? That's...well, that's awesome. But also, do you have a page reference cus I'm kind of stumped at how I missed that since I just reread it. I do confess I sped-read some of the sections I remembered more clearly where there wasn't a lot of action, but I'm surprised I missed something that big... Courtship of Princess of Leia, page 242/243 posted:"My mother was a good leader for her time." Isolder said. "Your Old Republic was falling apart. We needed someone brutal to fend off the Empire, and when we could not fend them off any longer, we needed someone strong enough to hold our worlds together under the pressure of Imperial rule. My mother met those needs. But her day is past..." The quote clearly says that Hapes couldn't fend off the Empire any longer at some point. It's quite often missed, oddly enough. I keep the page folded in the book and throw out the quote every six months or so. If anything, it makes the Empire sound stronger, to be fair.
beccatoria posted:Sinrebirth posted:Just an aside, but the Empire did conquer Hapes. It's a misconception that the Empire never did - CoPL itself stated the Empire conquered Hapes. So it never undercut the Empire in my mind. REALLY? That's...well, that's awesome. But also, do you have a page reference cus I'm kind of stumped at how I missed that since I just reread it. I do confess I sped-read some of the sections I remembered more clearly where there wasn't a lot of action, but I'm surprised I missed something that big...
Sinrebirth posted:Just an aside, but the Empire did conquer Hapes. It's a misconception that the Empire never did - CoPL itself stated the Empire conquered Hapes. So it never undercut the Empire in my mind.
Courtship of Princess of Leia, page 242/243 posted:"My mother was a good leader for her time." Isolder said. "Your Old Republic was falling apart. We needed someone brutal to fend off the Empire, and when we could not fend them off any longer, we needed someone strong enough to hold our worlds together under the pressure of Imperial rule. My mother met those needs. But her day is past..."
Courtship of Princess of Leia posted:"If Hapes had had a stronger military presence before the rise of the Empire, as I always advocated, we never would have fallen to the Empire. Mealymouthed pacifists and diplomats nearly ruined our realm."
Charlemagne19 posted: On a final note, I actually liked Warlord Zsinj.
AdmiralNick22 posted: I loved the visual of the Mon Remonda diving into evasive action, coming so close to one Battle Dragon that he can see actual Hapans in the viewport. Right we you think it is going to be a fight or flight, Captain Onoma overrides Han's orders, much to the irritation of our beloved rogue. Only after he realizes that the Hapans are broadcasting friendlies does he calm down a bit.
ChildOfWinds posted:I enjoyed Luke's story. He was impressive as he floated to Dathomir's surface sitting cross-legged in the air, bringing Isolder and his ship down safely too.
Charlemagne19 posted:The most shocking thing is Han admitting that he and Leia have already had sex.
Charlemagne19 posted:The Nightsisters keep their men in no such conditions and instead use them as brood mares with their diseased and ravaged bodies.
beccatoria posted:Charlie - I have to say I'm amused by and also really understand your analogy with regards to Superman fighting a pair of Hitler clones. I don't really have a strong rebuttal of that either since Star Wars was, well, based on Flash Gordon. At the same time, it's been a while since the novels were really written like that, and I also firmly believe that a pulpy ethos is no excuse for a poorly told tale (see the Daley Solo novels for good pulp), so....I'm inclined to say that I'm the kind of person who, while entertained by the idea of Superman fighting twin Hitlers, would probably not enjoy actually reading through an entire comic about that.
Jedi Ben posted:As to WoT's women, oh don't think I'm saying they're good! If I dub someone an Aes Sedai - it ain't a compliment.
beccatoria posted:Oh, and I do actually plan to do Dark Journey at some point. I was going to do it the month preceeding Blood Oath's release but with that on hold, I'm waiting to see when/if it'll actually come out before suggesting bumping it up the line.
Jeff_Ferguson posted:I guess what I'm trying to say is that I love Nynaeve.