Sinrebirth posted:Just an aside, but the Empire did conquer Hapes. It's a misconception that the Empire never did - CoPL itself stated the Empire conquered Hapes. So it never undercut the Empire in my mind.
beccatoria posted:DarthIktomi posted:Warlord Zsinj is incompetant. Absolutely. The guy has basically become a kids' Saturday morning cartoon villain in my mind at this point. Then again, with the new CW cartoon, Grievous is rapidly going the same way. I keep wondering why he doesn't have mustachios to twirl.
DarthIktomi posted:Warlord Zsinj is incompetant.
beccatoria posted:Well, frankly I agree with you. Firstly that Luke didn't quite fall in DE and secondly that Leia is far more like Anakin (with Luke more like Padme) but very few writers seem to realise it. But that's kind of what I was trying to get at; because no one really pays her as much attention, the end result is that she's simultaneously never really allowed to do much at the same time as coming across as remarkably uncorruptable. DarthIktomi posted:Sadly, that's what most women find romantic. Look at Twilight. Which is funny, because none of the guys I know find rape erotic in any way shape or form. And we're the gender that is supposedly sexist. LOL No, it isn't what most women find romantic It becomes particularly thorny when you consider that the Hapes system is not just a random society created for a fantasy world - where indeed one might encounter a society which has oulawed disability or any number of other things we would not consider doing - but one specifically designed to flip the status quo and create a matriarchy rather than a patriarchy. To tie the status and power of women, whose value is already overwhelmingly judged on their physical appearance, to a society bred purely for beauty runs close to undercutting the very premise of empowering them.
DarthIktomi posted:Sadly, that's what most women find romantic. Look at Twilight. Which is funny, because none of the guys I know find rape erotic in any way shape or form. And we're the gender that is supposedly sexist. LOL
RK_Striker_JK_5 posted:Palpatine didn't glass Dathomir because of being afraid of the witches. He didn't glass it because he fell in love with Gethzerion. He was trying to figure out a way to ask her out to the Calamari opera. Sad part is? I can legit see them together...
Beccatoria posted:...and now I'm imagining Leia as the star of Shatterpoint. o_O
beccatoria posted: RK_Striker_JK_5 posted:Palpatine didn't glass Dathomir because of being afraid of the witches. He didn't glass it because he fell in love with Gethzerion. He was trying to figure out a way to ask her out to the Calamari opera. Sad part is? I can legit see them together... And...there goes the half of my brain that wasn't broken by the idea of Leia in Shatterpoint.
beccatoria posted:Sinrebirth posted:Just an aside, but the Empire did conquer Hapes. It's a misconception that the Empire never did - CoPL itself stated the Empire conquered Hapes. So it never undercut the Empire in my mind. REALLY? That's...well, that's awesome. But also, do you have a page reference cus I'm kind of stumped at how I missed that since I just reread it. I do confess I sped-read some of the sections I remembered more clearly where there wasn't a lot of action, but I'm surprised I missed something that big...
Courtship of Princess of Leia, page 242/243 posted:"My mother was a good leader for her time." Isolder said. "Your Old Republic was falling apart. We needed someone brutal to fend off the Empire, and when we could not fend them off any longer, we needed someone strong enough to hold our worlds together under the pressure of Imperial rule. My mother met those needs. But her day is past..."
beccatoria posted:Ben - I'm not an essentialist my self - like you I think it's too...limiting a view of gender issues to have any truck with. That said I also think it's worth at least mentioning in passing that the type of woman you describe in Wheel of Time etc., isn't necessarily progressive. Sugary sweet isn't the only female stereotype; the evil/brutal/manipulative woman is just as established, though these days we tend to get it in the power-hungry evil female Boss stereotype, for instance. Madonna/Whore, and all that. I'm not trying to write off Ta'a Chume here, who, honestly, I think is one of the best legacies this book gave us for the EU. But I guess I am saying that Ta'a Chume isn't really any kind of groundbreaker, really, in terms of archetype? As to Leia...again, I'm torn. Cus on the one hand, I honestly think the reason we don't get a lot of scrutiny on her actions is because she's just not considered interesting enough. As Liliedhe says - Evil = Cool and maybe Leia was never really cool enough to go evil. So I don't think her ability to maintain her alignment in spite of all she's seen and done is necessarily a conscious characterisation choice and in one way, you could even argue it's unrealistic/unfair to other characters. That said, as a Leia fan, I do enjoy it as something of a consolation prize? That, kind of like Mace Windu, she's a little dark, strong as steel, brutal, and not at all evil? Even if everyone always forgets and underestimates her? ...and now I'm imagining Leia as the star of Shatterpoint. o_O
DarthIktomi posted:Wouldn't Palpatine be a better analogy? She's afraid of becoming either of them, but since she's the political face… That said, I see Sith Leia as more like Kyp Durron. I actually see Sith Luke in the same light.
Havac posted: The problem is, in the book, they're transparently titillating sexualized societies of hot Amazons. They're like something out of a particularly trashy, adult-oriented pulp adventure. Ooh, hot pseudo-medieval space queens who run around in diaphanous dresses and keep men under their thumb and have huge sexual appetites! Gee, wouldn't it be terrible to be a sex slave there, wink wink, nudge nudge! Ooh, hot barbarian space warrioresses who run around in loincloths and keep men under their thumb for breeding! Gee, wouldn't it be terrible to be a sex slave there, wink wink, nudge nudge! They're just these incredibly transparent sexual fantasies. The idea of matriarchal societies, executed on the level of general pulp and/or with some serious consideration, wouldn't be bad at all. The fact that it's two in one book, and the ridiculously transparent, over-sexualized execution totally kills it and makes it just cheesy, uncomfortable, and exploitative.