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Author	Topic: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel?
Dash_Magnum Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 7/2 9:16am Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel?
	Heavens no. In the first place, the KOTOR comic is already doing a fantastic job of filling in the portion of history. I fail to see how any novels could have a net positive influence (except one written by Matthew Stover...maybe). In the second place, Karen's view of canon seems to be one of "Well it can't possibly be more important than my very special, completely unsubtle message, so we'll just shuffle all that aside." Better to let her write Infinities-type stories; it would make all involved parties happier in the long run. -----signature----- This is how the world ends...not with a bang, but with a laugh track.
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Ulicus Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 7/2 9:30am Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel? - Date Edited: 7/2 9:37am (1 edits total) Edited By: Ulicus
	Zorrixor posted: the kind of myths and legends approach that defines the Sith Era as unique compared to the "modern" eras. I'd argue that such an approach should define every era of Star Wars. It really bothers me how much of the 'mundane' typically creeps into the Post-RotJ novels (as a general rule, there are exceptions). I shouldn't ever be reading about Caedus flipping through the dailies, or about him sitting in the bath or whatever, any more than I should be treated to a scene of Palpatine plotting world destroying on the toliet. I don't even like reading about "Luke was sitting in bed with Mara pondering the most recent crisis", or whathaveyou. Yes, the mundane exists in the Star Wars galaxy... but it should never be at the forefront. We should be getting a more 'mythologised' view of events, sweeping stories of good versus evil. This is one of the reasons Legacy is so popular, I think. We've had only one reference to caf in the entire 37 issue run, IIRC. YMMV, of course. (Goes to everyone) I just know that instead of reading: Chapter One: Luke is confronted with a crisis! Chapter Two: Luke ponders the crisis whilst in a mundane environment doing mundane stuff Chapter Three: Luke puts forward his plan to deal with the crisis to his fellows I'd rather have Chapter Two chucked out, with Luke just entering into things with: "I've come up with a plan!" -----signature----- This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though? An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense. Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
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Dawud786 Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 7/2 9:57am Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel?
	Yeah, I can agree with that. I mean, I don't mind seeing some of the mundanaity of the Star Wars universe from time to time... but take Omen, for instance, it practically revolved around mundanaity for the entire length of the novel. I don't think I've ever read a Star Wars novel with so many references to foodstuffs and county fairs... Stock markets, holo magazines. Stang, we might as well get treated to a scene of Luke and Ben having an awkward moment of Ben having been locked in the 'fresher for longer than usual conspicuously. He is 16, after all. -----signature----- http://blogs.starwars.com/slaveoftheforce
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blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 7/2 10:56am Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel?
	As part of a broader question, I don't think anyone should be writing a Mandalorian War novel right now with KOTOR still covering the period. There are too many revelations left that a work would either offer little new or conflict with the comic series. If anything, I would prefer the current course, with emphasis on Imperial Commando series. Personal preference, as the "Dark Times" era has always been of interest to me and I'm still irritated with the Clone Wars nonsense to want to just wait until they sort out the mess rather than see new material. And of course, there's the Essential Guide she's working on, as I mentioned, which probably will at least have a paragraph or two on the Mandalorian Wars. Wow, this thread has been surprisingly tame. Maybe it's safe to bring back other topics, like Super Star Destroyers... -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
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Ulicus Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 7/2 11:00am Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel?
	Dawud786 posted: Yeah, I can agree with that. I mean, I don't mind seeing some of the mundanaity of the Star Wars universe from time to time... but take Omen, for instance, it practically revolved around mundanaity for the entire length of the novel. I don't think I've ever read a Star Wars novel with so many references to foodstuffs and county fairs... Stock markets, holo magazines. Stang, we might as well get treated to a scene of Luke and Ben having an awkward moment of Ben having been locked in the 'fresher for longer than usual conspicuously. He is 16, after all. Just after I'd ordered Omen, too. blackmyron posted: As part of a broader question, I don't think anyone should be writing a Mandalorian War novel right now with KOTOR still covering the period. There are too many revelations left that a work would either offer little new or conflict with the comic series. Yeah, well said. I'm actually looking forward to the Imperial Commando series. -----signature----- This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though? An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense. Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 7/2 11:13am Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel?
	Omen's been sitting on my desk for about a week... but then I've been kind of busy and don't really want to start it unless I'm going to have time to finish it. I can't say I'm feeling much rush though, to be honest. But then I only finished the second 2/3rds of Outcast about a month ago... I'm amazing even myself with how I'm managing to stay largely spoiler free. I'm looking forward to Imperial Commando too; I think an era where the Jedi are the "bad guys" will for once actually gel nicely with the usual RC mantra. I still need to sit down and finish Order 66 though (yet again, somehow I've still managed to avoid finding out what all the stuff about a second cloning centre or something is ). I seriously need to find time to catch up with my Star Wars reading. Anyway, going back to the Mandalorian Wars, I agree with what someone (I forget who, sorry) said a couple of posts up about how I'd rather nobody touched the Mandalorian Wars right now to avoid stepping on JJM's toes. If anyone does, it'd practically need to be entirely plotted by JJM anyway, so seems kind of pointless at present. Hence why I'd much rather if they want to do some novels stick them in the Jedi Civil War.
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Tricky Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 7/2 11:15am Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel? - Date Edited: 7/2 1:57pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Havac
	Can we keep the reactions proportionate, please? Discuss the issue, don't go off on other people for stating their opinions. -----signature----- "Six pints of bitter," said Ford Prefect to the barman of the Horse and Groom. "And quickly please, the world's about to end." We like to Suckadelic.com. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 7/2 11:27am Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel? - Date Edited: 7/2 11:32am (3 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
	I'd say the general sentiment has far more to do with people not wanting to infringe the work of the comics than anything to do with Traviss. And at least Uli and Dawud, along with myself, have all said we're looking forward to the Imperial Commando series. I also said in my original post that I actually like her work, I just don't feel an author from a hard sci-fi background in military fiction is what I'd want in the more mythical historic era. So, this thread is not an "everyone hating on Traviss" thread. If anything, I'd say its more the case of its an "everyone loving on JJM" thread and not wanting anyone to step on his toes. There's ample unexplored territory (i.e. Dark Times) for other authors to focus on, rather than the EU throwing all its got at just one short time period. If anything, I'd far rather see her do a Great Sith War or Great Hyperspace War novel than two series set during the Mandalorian Wars. Or better yet, the Jedi Civil War, which we currently know next to nothing about other than that Malak "killed" Revan, other than that it's a blank canvass for whichever author gets around to writing about it. For the major war in the time period, it really is amazing that the main chapter is still untold. At the end of the day, the Mandalorians are the small fries compared to the carnage the Civil War and ensuing Dark Wars caused. But all we know can be summed up in a paragraph.
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Drewton Registered: Jan '09	Date Posted: 7/2 11:29am Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel? - Date Edited: 7/2 2:00pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Havac
	Tricky posted: Gone. I'm definitely not completely against Karen Traviss's writing. Her writing style is excellent; Sacrifice is one of my favourite novels. But she just completely gets Star Wars wrong most of the time. -----signature----- http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sith-lords-massive-improvement-mod The Sith Lords Massive Improvement Mod
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blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 7/2 11:57am Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel?
	Tricky, relax. First off, nothing anyone says here is going to have any affect at whether or not LFL keeps an author. Every author has its critics. Because of her controversial nature among some fans, it's not surprising that some of them would immediately zoom in on any thread whose title included "Karen Traviss" to tell us how terrible she is. But ignoring that, I think most people in this thread actually did try to answer the question - and some are fans of KT's work, some are not. I don't have her in my top SW authors, incidentally, but I tend to buy and enjoy her books. YMMV, as always. Second, the most outspoken of KT's 'un-fans' left TFN in an angry huff years ago over being unable to express themselves in the creative manner in which they were accustomed. I'm sure they found greener pastures, but as a general rule (and despite what they thought) there's nothing here that says you can't disagree - or even dislike - one particular author or another. The problem arises when it veers into personal assaults. Which brings me to my third and final point. Because of the friendly nature of TFN Lit, if you're feeling that someone's comments have veered into personal attacks on an author, VIP, or... anyone, really, the first thing you should probably do is to PM a Mod. -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
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Bill-Thompson Registered: Jul '08	Date Posted: 7/2 1:47pm Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel? - Date Edited: 7/2 2:20pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Bill-Thompson
	I'm not anti-Traviss by any means, I happen to agree with her stance on the Jedi and love seeing someone point out the hypocritical blowhards that they actually were. I also like her writing style most of the time. However, the reason I don't consider Traviss one of the best EU authors is because she really does hit people over the head with her Mandos=god/Jedi=devil theme. I get her point, I really do, but I got it after one novel, I don't need novel after novel saying the same thing. On the same token, I do think she has skill as a writer and I'd like to see her tackle something that isn't Mando related, do something different, prove that she can write a story without the Mandos. Also, as I said earlier, that era is in capable hands and I really don't want someone meddling in that era who isn't accustomed to it. -----signature----- http://warstars.wordpress.com/ http://billsmovieemporium.wordpress.com/ http://billstvemporium.wordpress.com/ "You could warn me when I do something bad. Blink once for dark side, twice for light." - Revan
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GoA Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 7/2 2:07pm Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel? - Date Edited: 7/2 2:08pm (1 edits total) Edited By: GoA
	No thank you. In my universe, Jedi and the Republic are the good guys, Sith and Mandalorians are the bad guys. I don't want to read about how somehow the Jedi and the Republic deserved to be slaughtered, and that the Mandalorians are actually the good guys in this conflict. Also, Mandalorians that are realistically portrayed are cool. Mandalorians who are portrayed as Gods, come across more like someone who is writing fanfic about a character(s) they like. -----signature----- Everything I tell you is a lie
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Dirk_Loechel Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 7/2 3:15pm Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel? - Date Edited: 7/2 3:47pm (3 edits total) Edited By: Dirk_Loechel
	Short version: No. She should be off this franchise entirely. Her work is just damaging it. Long version: Having read through a couple of her novels, I get the impression she just does not get the world. At all. And instead of doing what anyaspiring writer (and, indeed, a Journalist) should do - research the matter - she prefers to force her own views onto the universe of George Lucas. Needless to say, this just does not work out. Her glaring disinterest in a shared universe, going so far as to publically state her ignoring or retconning most of it except the parts she likes, which she then rewrites so they are “more logical” to her. Her writing is not in any way connected to what has been established, and what is is distorted to preach what she wants to say. Research? Retcon! Yes, she actually says so in an interview, that she loves to retcon. Never mind that this shows only her unprofessional attitude towards her work. And then her thumbing issues. Oh, the issues. Subtlety of, I dunno really, a Davey Crockett [sic]? Author on board, all the time, every centimeter of the ride. This refers both to the Mandaloreans - they are no shiny heroes, no matter how much she wants them to be, and neither are they invincible - and her treatment of the Jedi. And really every other character, who gets distorted to get her message across (poor Scout). I don't know where she got her ideas on writing as expressed in her interviews from, but an author should read first. She stated (publically, in an interview on her site) she dislikes to read books. Little wonder her writing is lacking as it is. You pick up the craft by looking at the work, not by attending an afternoon class over a few months. And no, journalistic writing is anything but prose. And that is what her texts feel like. Reading a yellow press paper, just without the bad puns, tits and freak stories. Her books read a lot like a small town local issues paper. Little, if any, descripion, repetitive and dull writing, short and bland sentences. Other books come alive for me. Reading hers is as exciting as reading a book about advanced organic chemistry. Yes, she tries to introduce character drama to make up for it. But either it ends up retelling Daily Soaps from the 80s, usually with a female or Jedi character being the butt of the joke, or it is about Mando problems and Manro worldview, and there she entangles herself in her hero-worshipping Mandaloreans. This goes so far that she makes characters act so erratically that, compared to her writing, the Star Wars Marvel comics were masterpieces of plot and characterisation that would make John Irving huddle up in a corner and cry in shame. Yes, this means Jaina. The sword of the Jedi, established as something between Neo, Psylocke and Storm, being beat up by an old man who should by all rights and means have been digested a long time ago anyway. Yes, the Mandos are ridiculouslly sueified in her work. No, Mando armour is not impenetrable to lightsabers at all, not in the movies (ask Jango’s forearm), which are what counts. Did she even spend the two afternoons nescessary to read them? I feel not. Also, why is everyone in awe about the Mando in her work? It’s like writing an espionage novel set in the Western world and everybody, without exception, is looking up to Al Quaida as shining examples of humanity. More logical, of course. Less logical is what came out. Additionally, she commits a cardinal sin of fantasy writing by dragging daily politics into it. Seriously. Why didn't she stay with the newspapers. No, thanks. -----signature----- beccatoria: "ESCAPE, SCOUT! FLEE MANDALORE! HIDE OUT IN ONE OF THOSE NEWFANGLED CUBE CITIES SO MS TRAVISS CAN'T FIND YOU!" Justice for Scout. Yoda never kicked Scout out of the Jedi Order! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Joint Winner - PT Trivia Chall
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patchworkz7 Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 7/2 4:47pm Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel? - Date Edited: 7/2 4:51pm (1 edits total) Edited By: patchworkz7
	Dirk_Loechel posted: Additionally, she commits a cardinal sin of fantasy writing by dragging daily politics into it. Seriously. Why didn't she stay with the newspapers. Uhhh...all else aside...seriously? And I mean just in general; do you read much outside SW? Ursula le Guin? Octavia Butler? Gene Wolfe? Harlan Ellison? Anybody? EDIT: I want to stress this is nothing personal, but politics has been in literature and even escapist fantasy for as long as it has been around. I'm rather gobsmacked at the blanket statement. And if it isn't explicitly in there, people seem to find ways to claim fantasy writers for their own team. I'm just...I guess "cardinal sin" sorta stuck out as a bit of a large brush. Nothing personal, I just can't even parse that. Then again, I grew up heavily on New Wave writers, but I still read loads of SF/fantasy that had political elements that I recognized even as a kid. I don't see where there's any rule against it. And I'm talking in general, so I don't need a laundry list of KT's political sins, it's just a bit of a shock when someone makes a statement like that. -----signature----- Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house Now in German and Polish Editions! James A Gilmer
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TIEPilot051999 Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 7/2 9:54pm Subject: Should Karen Traviss Write A Mandalorian War Novel?
	_Catherine_ posted: Wasn't Revelation the seed of those weird Fenn Shysa/History of the Mandalorians retcons? Pretty much, yeah. -----signature----- Devi is my Padme Angel All Hail Megatron! The Tenth Doctor In Sleepy Tower - Third Place Winner
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