Jedi Council Forums - Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus

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Author	Topic: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
Master_Jedi_LS Registered: Jan '09	Date Posted: 7/15 1:00pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus - Date Edited: 7/15 1:01pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Master_Jedi_LS
	I'm not sure if this is going be brake any of the forum rules or not but we'll see. I was reading through another thread and this possibility occurred to me, let’s see what everyone thinks about it… Fate of The Jedi, the series has a lot to do with Jacen/Darth Caedus right? 1. Luke and Ben are retracing Jacen’s foot steps to discover what drove him to the Dark Side. 2. The Jedi that have been affected by the psychosis have all used powers that Jacen knew and that no one else did. 3. In Outcast the thing from the Maw talked to Jacen’s daughter Allana. [I’m sure there is more tying Jacen into FOTJ but I am drawing a blank right now] Anyway, my theory is that either the being in the maw is Jacen/Caedus’s spirit or has something to do with him. The other theory (the one that could most definitely turn out to be true) is Jacen is captured/incapacitated and is trying to worn the Jedi order what is about to happen (whatever that maybe), this theory would make sense. Jacen could be trying to manifest his spirit/mind into the younger weaker Jedi to let them know that he is still alive and some of the side affects of him trying this is the psychosis, the other Jedi getting a power of his and the sick Jedi believing everyone around them are copies of their former self’s. If Luke ended up finding Jacen alive that would pretty much end his exile too. I know its pretty thin but hey its fun to speculate right….
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 7/15 1:18pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus - Date Edited: 7/15 1:24pm (3 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
	I'm fairly confident that he'll have something to do with things, yeah. The minimal way could be simply if they're all exhibiting his past training because all the people who trained him are somehow linked to the threat (so far they're all around black holes and/or rifts in spacetime, for instance... gateways to Waru in Otherspace? ); but the more direct ways would be the ones you suggest, yeah. I'm split on whether I'd prefer it to be Jacen trying to redeem himself in the afterlife (as Han hinted in Millennium Falcon), or whether I'd prefer it to still be Darth Caedus, with this being the answer to "Why didn't he become Emperor and become a longterm bad guy?" by making him into a multi series bad guy after all, just in a very hidden, more sinister way. If one of the two happens though, I'm more anticipating it to be the former with Jacen trying to complete the work he tried (and failed) to do in life by becoming a Sith, with him now in the afterlife still wanting to help stop the threat that he awoke during his travels. His ghostly unfinished business, so to speak. As to why he doesn't just appear as a ghost and tell people what the kark to do... I'd be open to the opposite reasoning to why Cade can't see Kol: because this time it's the spirit that's still a bit dark, and that until Jacen redeems himself and fully rejoins with the Force he won't be able to properly interact with the galaxy. Which might just mean a quick appearance in Book #9 where he shows up, says his bit, then disappears again forever. Kind of like being a Sith spirit, but anchored to all the crazy Jedi people for some reason. That all said, we also have the Maw threat as the sole tie the crazy Jedi all have... so there's still some odd question about why the Maw threat is spreading Jacen's abilities to people. Jacen may have woke the Maw thingie up, but that doesn't quite explain what else happened. Best guess I can come up with is perhaps that it devoured his mind as well, but that he was strong enough to fight it off... so the Maw thingie absorbed his abilities. Which could relate to the idea of the "Mind Drinkers" in Abyss.
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trooper0074 Registered: Oct '07	Date Posted: 7/15 3:48pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus - Date Edited: 7/15 3:52pm (1 edits total) Edited By: trooper0074
	Interesting description here - no idea what game it is referencing. Mind Walkers "Wizards who channel magical energy in order to invade the minds of other beings are commonly (and with great distaste) known as "Mind Walkers". Mind Walkers are loathed for the powers they use on others. They have the ability to enter minds, discover hidden secrets, manipulate dreams, and exchange bodies." "Mind Walkers now wisely pursue their Art secretly, in order to avoid attention." "Mind Walkers train in the Master / Apprentice model" HMMMM
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Carnage04 Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 7/15 11:52pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
	I'm not a huge fan of super mystical/force spirits being powerful part of Star Wars and this could really push it for me..... I don't like attempting to bring back characters that were killed. On the other hand, I'm enjoying the new series thus far because I am not sure where it is going. Lets face it, LoTF was somewhat predictable. Maybe some events were surprising but starting with book 2, it was reasonably easy to see where the series was headed. I'm grasping at straws here, but one thing that sticks out to me is the title of the last book - Invincible. The other eight book titles were easy to associate the title word with a characters actions during the novel. Actually, most of them probably applied to multiple characters. Invincible...I don't really see it. The Jedi Order? The GA? Jaina? Surviving that series would definitely put Jacen as seemingly invincible. My other thought goes back to the Legacy comics. Darth Krayt tells Cade "Caedus - Another Skywalker gone to the dark side - served our purposes however unwittingly. He was a Sith Lightning Rod attracting the Jedi attention away from us." I could see them using this time to further their own agenda while doing things that scream out "Darth Caedus" to keep the Jedi off balance. -----signature----- Carnage I Finally decided to use a signature after 3500 posts! 3500 posts * 7 Characters = 24500 keystrokes wasted
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 7/16 12:20am Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
	trooper0074 posted: Interesting description here - no idea what game it is referencing. Mind Walkers "Wizards who channel magical energy in order to invade the minds of other beings are commonly (and with great distaste) known as "Mind Walkers". Mind Walkers are loathed for the powers they use on others. They have the ability to enter minds, discover hidden secrets, manipulate dreams, and exchange bodies." "Mind Walkers now wisely pursue their Art secretly, in order to avoid attention." "Mind Walkers train in the Master / Apprentice model" HMMMM
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Green_Blade Registered: Jan '06	Date Posted: 7/16 10:14pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus - Date Edited: 7/16 11:25pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Green_Blade
	I am all for anything that might bring Jacen back. Killing him was a royal screw up, so they can retconn and make stuff up all they want as long as Jacen comes back somehow. Killing off 2/3 of the Solo children and effectively ending the Solo name itself is just a disservice to the EU and series (not that I am also against Anakin's death, because I am not). Or maybe they actually have a plan here and it could indeed all work out in the end. Bringing Jacen back and proving LOTF and FOTJ actually are going somewhere would really restore my faith. We'll see. -----signature----- "Some things you can't control. If you fear them, then those things control you." - Jacen Solo
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Sinrebirth Title: Sith Emperor of the SWC Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 7/17 12:24am Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
	If Darth Caedus returned I would dance for joy and create a Del Rey religion and anoint Sue as Pope/Cardinal/Archbishop/Prophet/God whatever she liked. Dunno if that's an incentive or a nightmare waiting to happen for her, but I thought I'd put it out there. I love Darth Caedus. More than Vergere, Darth Ruin, Darth Revan, Darth Rivan and Darth Traya combined. hides from Uli and Zor -----signature----- Darth Insipid Proud Fan of the Tragedy of Jacen Solo Missing Chapters of Invincible; Teaser of Chapter 9.5 is up! Wes vs Tarfang, Gavin and the Coup, Luke and Jacen, and much more! http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28933751/p3/?70
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 7/17 12:37am Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
	But...but... Darth Ruin is everything! He is the galaxy... and the universe... and the Jedi... and the Sith... which means he is also Caedus... your logic fails! Seriously though, I agree. Like I said in my post above, if this all turned out to be the plan for how to have the new Dark Lord be the villain for two full series without needing to have another Empire and Emperor storyline, then I'd be impressed. It also would be addressing the "bad guy" factor problem. LOTF we saw Caedus's POV the whole time, so it was hard to relate to him as the big, evil villain. If he does turn out to be this evil unseen threat, it'd be achieving the hidden, unseen, evil emperor feel that LOTF didn't. However right now I'm more expecting it to just be Jacen's ghost doing what Han suggested in MF. Though that might just be because he's not been mentioned in the first two books that I'm prematurely assuming "nah, never gonna happen". But if it is the spirit of the Sith Emperor, I am going to scream. Crosscurrent I'm looking at you. Do not disappoint me.
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Ulicus Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 7/17 5:43am Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
	Sinrebirth posted: I love Darth Caedus. More than Vergere, Darth Ruin, Darth Revan, Darth Rivan and Darth Traya combined. He barely did anything, until Invincible where he finally was written with some oomph (bit late, though), and got kneecapped by a Mandy. You are most perplexing, Sinre. Darth Caedus had a ridiculous amount of potential as a villian and it was all squandered. Seriously. I was more than happy for them to turn the hero of the NJO dark if it meant the birth of a truly compelling and powerful opponent for Luke Skywalker -- the next Vader or Sidious -- and instead the authors seemed totally opposed to that idea. I'm never, ever going to understand it and it still makes me sad. -----signature----- This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though? An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense. Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
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Green_Blade Registered: Jan '06	Date Posted: 7/17 11:10am Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
	I want Jacen to return simply because I think a redemption storyline involving Jacen would be a brilliant read. Not to keen on Caedus returning if Jacen just ends up dead again. -----signature----- "Some things you can't control. If you fear them, then those things control you." - Jacen Solo
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DARTHJOESITHLORD Registered: Feb '09	Date Posted: 7/17 12:19pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus - Date Edited: 7/17 12:26pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DARTHJOESITHLORD
	Dang you got that right. I do hope they bring Caedus back in some form, because they way they had him killed was the dumbest ending to a book I have ever read. Darth Caedus was an heir to the Chosen One and got a lot of granddads power, and he got killed by his sister who spent her life being joined to insects, drooling over Fel or Zekk, and possibly forming the Imperial Knights, who are a group of renegade Jedi. Caedus,beat up the real Warmaster of the Vong, spent five years mastering the force, trained Ben Skywalker, became a Sith Lord, fought and survived Luke Skywalker, and got killed like THAT?!?!?!? And ended up being a lightning rod?! Come on! Give him some more oomph then that crummy ending to his story! Either they bring him back, either as an evil soul or as a soul trying to redeem himself or they make the Lost Tribe super tough! Now that KT and her Mando worship are gone and CG is in it should be better though. I have some doubts about the Lost Tribe though, as they came boom, out of nowhere, Most groups that do that are not that well written. Or they have very short story arcs. -----signature----- Raw Justice is harsh and it is the highest form of Justice.
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 7/17 12:29pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
	Speaking of lightning rods... I remain curious about how much the "lightning rod" power Luke learnt from the Baran Do is just a typical Allston tease or whether there is indeed something more sinister to the subtext of it all. There's just something suspect about Caedus being labelled a metaphorical "lightning rod" and there also being a "lightning rod" power that he just so happened to learn. I still don't trust all these dodgy Force cults, frankly.
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GoA Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 7/17 12:45pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
	Ulicus posted: Darth Caedus had a ridiculous amount of potential as a villian and it was all squandered. Seriously. I was more than happy for them to turn the hero of the NJO dark if it meant the birth of a truly compelling and powerful opponent for Luke Skywalker -- the next Vader or Sidious -- and instead the authors seemed totally opposed to that idea. I'm never, ever going to understand it and it still makes me sad. Couldn't agree more. It's laughable the direction they decided to go with his portrayal. Makes me question whether the people making these decisions should still be making these decisions. -----signature----- Everything I tell you is a lie
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 7/17 1:05pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus - Date Edited: 7/17 1:09pm (3 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
	It's funny how they could have had him appear a whole load better just by, well, not having had him appear. The Emperor, for example, had the whole mysteriousness thing going for him. Even Vader, to a certain degree, benefited from being a largely faceless figure due to the hidden identity and the mask, even when he did get a lot of screen time. Hence why some people are always unhappy with his novel appearances, because they force us to see another side of him that the films do not explore. Had they simply kept Caedus off screen and we only heard about how "The Bothan fleet was routed at Corulag" or "The Confederacy Third Fleet was defeated at Alderaan" or whatever else... it'd have made him appear much creepier and allowed for the illusion of military supremacy. I understand what they tried to do: build a three dimensional villain. Sadly, that's not easy at the best of times, and in such a mythic universe as Star Wars where we're used to the bad guys being bad it's an even harder thing to do. Because we got to see inside his head it was the equivalent of having a book about ESB from Vader's POV, with him constantly sitting in his meditation sphere crying his eyes out, staring at a photograph of Padme, wishing he'd been there for his son years ago, and longing for Luke to join him so they could together take revenge and butcher the old man and then rule the empire together. Seen that way, Vader's "Join me and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son!" line might have seemed more the desperate plea of a lonely melodramatic wife beater than those of the Dark Lord of the Sith. At least for FOTJ they seem to have acknowledged the maxim "less is more". Well, unless the Lost Tribe turn out to be the main bad guys, in which case they're likely to suffer the same problem of excessive exposure in all these spin-off novellas that we end up relating too closely with the villains to actually see them as villains.
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DARTHJOESITHLORD Registered: Feb '09	Date Posted: 7/17 2:37pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
	Y'all think Caedus himself could have been infected with the force insanity? Only he was so strong that it didn't affect him as badly, then the insane Jedi contracted it from Caedus, getting some of his powers in the process? See, each sickness, like the flu is slightly different, say I got the flu and then gave it to one of my friends, the flu would have been changed by coming into contact with my body and immune system, what if this force insanity is similar? The disease picked up this powers from Caedus and began to manifest them after he was infected. I know that all the problems seem to be coming from the Maw, but i'm betting that whatever it is in there just gave it to Caedus, it would fit with there Caedus the wimp tactic to make him be just a carrier of a disease. -----signature----- Raw Justice is harsh and it is the highest form of Justice.
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MasterGandalf Registered: Feb '09	Date Posted: 7/17 6:16pm Subject: Fate of the Jedi and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
	Zorrixor posted: It's funny how they could have had him appear a whole load better just by, well, not having had him appear. The Emperor, for example, had the whole mysteriousness thing going for him. Even Vader, to a certain degree, benefited from being a largely faceless figure due to the hidden identity and the mask, even when he did get a lot of screen time. Hence why some people are always unhappy with his novel appearances, because they force us to see another side of him that the films do not explore. Had they simply kept Caedus off screen and we only heard about how "The Bothan fleet was routed at Corulag" or "The Confederacy Third Fleet was defeated at Alderaan" or whatever else... it'd have made him appear much creepier and allowed for the illusion of military supremacy. I understand what they tried to do: build a three dimensional villain. Sadly, that's not easy at the best of times, and in such a mythic universe as Star Wars where we're used to the bad guys being bad it's an even harder thing to do. Because we got to see inside his head it was the equivalent of having a book about ESB from Vader's POV, with him constantly sitting in his meditation sphere crying his eyes out, staring at a photograph of Padme, wishing he'd been there for his son years ago, and longing for Luke to join him so they could together take revenge and butcher the old man and then rule the empire together. Seen that way, Vader's "Join me and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son!" line might have seemed more the desperate plea of a lonely melodramatic wife beater than those of the Dark Lord of the Sith. At least for FOTJ they seem to have acknowledged the maxim "less is more". Well, unless the Lost Tribe turn out to be the main bad guys, in which case they're likely to suffer the same problem of excessive exposure in all these spin-off novellas that we end up relating too closely with the villains to actually see them as villains. I think you really hit the nail on the head about something LOTF was really missing- the ultimate, inscrutable mastermind character. This archetype really shows up in just about every major Star Wars storyline and often makes for the coolest, most memorable villains. In the movies we had Sidious, who is basically Satan incarnate. In the Thrawn Trilogy was Thrawn, of course- utterly inscrutable except on the rare occasion he choses to reveal his past. In the NJO we didn't even know for certain who the real villain was until the climax, and Onimi is, like the Joker, just too plain nuts to be relateable anyway. Legacy waited to establish Krayt's backstory until we knew him as the Dark Lord of the Sith solidly, and there's just something about Wyyrlok's personality that keeps him at arms' length. And so on. Lumiya was nice, but of course we all correctly expected her to get killed off. I kept waiting for it to be revealed that someone or something else was pulling her strings (besides Vergere, assuming she wasn't just lying about the connection), but alas that never materialised. Now, I do think that Star Wars has had relateable villains before- they're just not the guy in charge. Anakin/Vader, Nom Anor, Pellaeon, Vader's various admirals and captains in ESB- they all give us a more human (for lack of a better term) perspective on evil. We really come to know all of them (except for Vader's henchmen) very well, giving us evil characters we can relate to while preserving that necessary aura of mystique about the Big Bad. LOTF, though, chose to make the Big Bad its main focus character, which could have made for a very interesting case study of evil- assuming it had been in the hands of one author (preferably Stover for that sort of thing, I think- and he knows Jacen's character well to boot!), rather than three. The end result of that was an inconsistent, often whiny Caedus with jerky development, which combined with him personally getting his rear end repeatedly kicked really deprived the character of that essential menace factor. A Sith who isn't scary really isn't doing his job right. Fortunately FOTJ seems to be in line to correct this problem. Vestara's a major viewpoint character, but considering her relatively low rank and lack of experience I'd put her more as our Nom Anor than our Shimrra or Tsavong Lah (to use an NJO analogy). We've seen very little of the leaders of the Tribe so far, and if they're the main villains they can be kept mysterious largely by avoiding their POVs no matter how much Tribe backstory we get. I don't think they're going to be the real Big Bads, though- my money's on either the being in the Maw that talked to Allana or a Sith Ghost Caedus. Either way that helps a great deal in the 'mystique factor'- Force Ghosts of any stripe are inherently mysterious and powerful beings, and the Maw-thing is likely too inhuman to be sympathetic or relatable on any level even in the unlikely event we do get its POV.
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