Jedi Council Forums - It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!

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Author	Topic: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
Ulicus Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 10/8 12:21pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	RK_Striker_JK_5 posted: Which of course begs the question... Raises the question. Begging the question is something else entirely... as I had hammered into my head during my years as an undergrad who dared make the same mistake you just did. -----signature----- This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though? An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense. Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
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Jeff_Ferguson Registered: May '06	Date Posted: 10/8 12:28pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	My favourite fanon retcons from this time period concern the Empire of the Hand being absorbed into the Chiss Ascendancy. Popular fan theories involve Baron Fel and his Empire entering the Chiss Civil War, winning it for one of the sides, and then effectively taking over the Ascendancy while using the four ruling families as a puppet government. This actually makes a good deal of sense --- in The Joiner King, the Chiss Ascendancy is suddenly well-equipped with a military and a fleet that we haven't seen before. So, after the Chiss Civil War, Baron Fel continues his fight against the terrors of the Unknown Regions, but now he has, effectively, the entire Chiss Race at his disposal. That raises the question of why, in The Unseen Queen, the Chiss are still waiting for the Killiks to make the first strike before they declare war... so, I'd like to present my own theory! Force Heretic shows the Yuuzhan Vong making an effort to take care of races/organizations in the galaxy that could potentially pose a threat to them --- the Yevetha, the Ssi-Ruuk, the Imperial Remnant... there's really no telling where they drew the line. As books like Dark Tide and The Joiner King strongly imply that there are terrors in the UR that are not the Yuuzhan Vong (the terrors that the Empire of the Hand have been protecting the wider galaxy from for years), and we also know about the Vagaari, the Ebruchi, etc --- here's what I'm thinking... At some point prior to 28 ABY, the Yuuzhan Vong deployed a fleet into the Unknown Regions and declared total war on the various terrors that the Empire of the Hand had been fighting. Later sources established that there were Vong hiding in the UR for a while well prior to the Invasion, so it’s not unrealistic that some recon could have alerted the Vong to their presence (and maybe some Vong agents, cloaked in ooglith masquers, infiltrated the EOTH and got info there? ). So, yeah --- the Vong wipe out basically all of the threats that the EOTH had been fighting, and the EOTH’s mission statement is effectively obsolete. So what do they do with their fleet? Lend it to the Ascendancy, win the civil war, and then Baron Fel essentially dissolves the EOTH and takes a position in the Ascendancy as Assistant Syndic. He plays their never-strike-first game, but has the power to resurrect the EOTH should any UR terrors ever rise again... Why, then, would the Vong attack all of the UR threats, but not the EOTH itself? Well... they did. And they lost. -----signature----- "We are Imperial Knights. We do our duty by the Emperor and by the Force—no matter the cost." --- Sigel Dare "In the name of the true Emperor, Roan Fel, we come bearing greetings to our Jedi cousins." --- Marasiah Fel
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tjace Registered: Feb '08	Date Posted: 10/8 12:32pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	Jeff_Ferguson posted: My favourite fanon retcons from this time period concern the Empire of the Hand being absorbed into the Chiss Ascendancy. Popular fan theories involve Baron Fel and his Empire entering the Chiss Civil War, winning it for one of the sides, and then effectively taking over the Ascendancy while using the four ruling families as a puppet government. This actually makes a good deal of sense --- in The Joiner King, the Chiss Ascendancy is suddenly well-equipped with a military and a fleet that we haven't seen before. So, after the Chiss Civil War, Baron Fel continues his fight against the terrors of the Unknown Regions, but now he has, effectively, the entire Chiss Race at his disposal. That raises the question of why, in The Unseen Queen, the Chiss are still waiting for the Killiks to make the first strike before they declare war... so, I'd like to present my own theory! Force Heretic shows the Yuuzhan Vong making an effort to take care of races/organizations in the galaxy that could potentially pose a threat to them --- the Yevetha, the Ssi-Ruuk, the Imperial Remnant... there's really no telling where they drew the line. As books like Dark Tide and The Joiner King strongly imply that there are terrors in the UR that are not the Yuuzhan Vong (the terrors that the Empire of the Hand have been protecting the wider galaxy from for years), and we also know about the Vagaari, the Ebruchi, etc --- here's what I'm thinking... At some point prior to 28 ABY, the Yuuzhan Vong deployed a fleet into the Unknown Regions and declared total war on the various terrors that the Empire of the Hand had been fighting. Later sources established that there were Vong hiding in the UR for a while well prior to the Invasion, so it’s not unrealistic that some recon could have alerted the Vong to their presence (and maybe some Vong agents, cloaked in ooglith masquers, infiltrated the EOTH and got info there? ). So, yeah --- the Vong wipe out basically all of the threats that the EOTH had been fighting, and the EOTH’s mission statement is effectively obsolete. So what do they do with their fleet? Lend it to the Ascendancy, win the civil war, and then Baron Fel essentially dissolves the EOTH and takes a position in the Ascendancy as Assistant Syndic. He plays their never-strike-first game, but has the power to resurrect the EOTH should any UR terrors ever rise again... Why, then, would the Vong attack all of the UR threats, but not the EOTH itself? Well... they did. And they lost. I like it. More retcons, less Striker wars! -----signature----- "It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." -- Mara Jade Skywalker 3300 BBY fanfic: http://boards.theforce.net/before_the_saga/b10475/30374242/p1 Aurë entuluva! <\/>
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RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 10/8 12:42pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	MWStover posted: RK_Striker_JK_5 posted: CaptainPeabody posted: [quote=RK_Striker_JK_5]Which of course begs the question... why even listen to the insane Fosh? Oh, you... I'm... not joking. I hate Vergere on most/all levels. And I find 'Traitor' to be one of the worst books I have ever read. Why, thank you. Out of curiosity, are you using "hate" as code for: "I get angry when someone questions my beliefs"? RK_Striker_JK_5 posted: Vergere is like the First Evil from 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' Once you stop listening, they lose all power over you. Are you saying that how you, personally, deal with ideas that make you uncomfortable is shut your eyes, stick fingers in your ears and hum . . . and hope those ideas eventually get bored and wander off? Again out of curiosity: Do you think that's a good thing? Do you think others -- or everybody -- should behave that way (and all that categorical imperative kind of stuff)? Would you respect someone who used that tactic to respond to your ideas (whatever they might happen to be)? In other words: do you believe in the Golden Rule? Or perhaps in the Golden Rule of Thumb (it's more like a guideline)? [/quote] I'll admit when I'm wrong. I listen to ideas and think on them. If they're right and I'm wrong, then okay. I admit it. I read Traitor-twice. The only NJO book I read more than once. I understood it and what Vergere meant That's why I hate her, you see. So you see, I can say I find her ideas to be laughable at best. She's wrong, based on 25,000+ years of IU evidence and evewrything else OOU. She's a kriffin' nutjob that JINO should've punted into low orbit when he had the chance! And 'hate' is simply code for finding her to be irritable, obnoxious, denser than quantum armor and overall a bad character. -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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CaptainPeabody Registered: Jul '08	Date Posted: 10/8 1:46pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	At least when I first entered it, this thread was the NJO-tional Retcon Week Thread, not the Let's Review RK Striker's Views On The NJO Series In Case Anyone Has Managed to Miss Them Over the Past Ten Years And Then Argue Over Whether Or Not He is Close-Minded Thread. Of course, it's possible I'm mistaken--these things do happen from time to time. But seriously; I'd hate to see a Retcon week go to waste...so stop yappin' and start retconning, people! -----signature----- "Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." -G.K. Chesterton "We have seen thee, Queen of Cheese \ Lying quietly at your ease, Gently fanned by evening breeze \ Thy fair form no flies dare seize." -James McIntyre, Cheese Poet
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RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 10/8 1:53pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	The NJO is a video game in the GFFA. There's a retcon for yah. -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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Magnuskn Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/8 1:58pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	Tahiri wakes up to be young again and finds Anakin in the shower. -----signature----- Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet Serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force.
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Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 10/8 2:40pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	With Mara. -----signature----- "Is there a captain's hat involved in this?" "I . . . don't know what department I want. I need . . . pants."
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StrikerFive Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 10/8 2:46pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	Havac posted: With Mara. Wait, Mara and Tahiri were sleeping together??? -----signature----- Sock of RK_Striker_JK_5
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Magnuskn Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/8 2:55pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	Havac posted: With Mara. Threesome! -----signature----- Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet Serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force.
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StrikerFive Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 10/8 3:18pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	The Force is strong with him! -----signature----- Sock of RK_Striker_JK_5
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 10/8 6:22pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!! - Date Edited: 10/8 6:23pm (2 edits total) Edited By: xx_Anakin_xx
	The Mystery of Anakin's missing Force Ghost and the confused big brother Ever wonder why Anakin's Force Ghost didn't appear at his pyre? Why Jacen developed as he did? Well wonder no more, folks! The Force Ghost isn't missing at all - that's right, after spending a small amount of time hob-nobbing with other Force Ghosts in the Netherworld, it got down to business. Evidence in Dark Journey and throughout the rest of the NJO points to what really happened. The Force Ghost was determined to complete Anakin's true mission in life - to end the debate between he and Jacen over "what it means to be a true Jedi". Anakin's Force ghost invaded the body of Jacen and the two spirits continued their eternal debate, inhabiting the same shell. This affected what was believed to be Jacen's character in many ways as the two spirits dwelling in the one body continued their verbal sparring and evoking sometimes strange reactions in the host body - unbeknownst to all who came into contact with it. Did they resolve their argument? Did the interloping Force Ghost ever leave? These questions and more will be answered in this exciting NJO retcon... -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/10 6:53am Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!! - Date Edited: 10/10 6:58am (2 edits total) Edited By: Thrawn McEwok
	J_K_DART, AdmiralWesJanson: two great retcons!! Jeff_Ferguson: I like this one too, but I have a bit more to add. It's worth bearing in mind that something big, dangerous, and angry came charging into Chiss territory in the aftermath of the YV/ZS clash in 29 ABY, and that there was a secretive, biotech-using big-bad behind the Vagaari in 22 ABY (and it was also around 28 BBY that the Warlord showed up on Kariek, too) - I'm guessing all of these were either to do with the YV or ZS. Additionally, I think it's possible that the existence of the Empire of the Hand (if indeed it DOES exist as more than Nirauan and a few companies of clone stormtroopers) is as little-known in the Chiss Ascendancy as it is in the Galactic Alliance, and/or it's simply not considered polite by the Chiss to mention it. With Formbi and Fel in positions of power, I wonder if it's the Chiss government that's been subverted... but we'll see. Magnuskn: Tahiri wakes up to be young again and finds Anakin in the shower. I like this, but can you find EVIDENCE that everything since the middle of the Myrkr mission has been a dream/hallucination? On the question of Marakin, I officially renounced the idea a while back, when I realised that my emphasis on it was obscuring the self-evident (to me) fact that Anakin and Tahiri belong together and deserve a happy ending - and I can back that up with extensive Monomyth references, too (A/T FTW!! ); so please, guys, I'd prefer it if you ONLY bring it up (and preferably, if you can do so in ways that strengthen A/T )... Of course, that's just my personal opinion. You can ignore me. xx_Anakin_xx: not a bad idea, in outline, but do you have any specifics that make you suspect it's so? MWStover: gulp ... please feel free to shred my idea that follows? Just wonderin' . . . and channelling my inner Vergere. Symia: I don't have a retcon to offer (yet) but I'm really curious to know what you think the flaw in her statement is. Okay... deep breath I think Vergere's questions underemphasise the question of intent and attitude - or at least, overcomplicates and thus obscures it. Yes, I think it's right to ask whether the Jedi emphasis on inner purity can lead people to make the wrong decisions, through trying too hard to avoid or oppose "the dark side"... ... BUT, at the same time, I think that there's a danger of losing sight of the value of noble intentions here. "Choose and act" seems to put the emphasis on the practical outcome, on a calculus of the overall success of every action... when, even if you make a mess of things, especially if you care about the fact you failed, the example can reach out above the conflict, showing that there is another way to do things. Of course, this cycles right back to Joseph Campbell, and the monomyth, and the engagement with the Other. It's... Luke throwing down his lightsaber, and Padmé accepting her boyfriend's actions on Tatooine, and Anakin and Tahiri... and, ironically - shockingly - Vader's hand outstretched to his son's, above the abyss in Coud City. That said, "choose and act" COULD be read as fitting around this idea: the phrase "choose and act" might seem rather utilitarian, but it does acknowledge the idea of accepting failure, and it can also be read as embodying the idea of "acting" in the sense of pretending, presenting the action in the right way to the audience - this is a novel by the author of the "Acts of Caine" books, after all - and, it's important to emphasise, Jacen does choose "love" (even if I think there's still a limited sense of other people in his weltanschauung)... But, even with all that acknowledged, I think that Vergere, by presenting her questions in the way that's necessary to get through to Jacen and make him able to think about it, may end up doing more to destroy than to create - which, really, is once again the (possible) flaw that I'm trying to emphasise here. There's something to be said for being nice, and open, for the beau geste, and for playing the game. Try. Do your best. Tien ta Foy. CaptainPeabody: I hope that serves as an oblique response to you - what do you think? - The Imperial Ewok -----signature----- A/T = OTP :===8[#]8===: Kyp/Jaina fans: stand up and be counted!
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Caine-chan Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 10/10 8:11pm Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	xx_Anakin_xx That's a great idea! And it would explain how Jacen's character could change in every LotF book In the last few books he spends a lot of time thinking about Anakin and even picking out magazine articles he would like when he really hasn't thought much about his brother in 10(?) years - that's Anakin taking over! Sometimes, the existence of the problem isn't obvious at first (like the flaw in Vergere's powerful "Isn't that a little sick?" indictment of the Jedi, for example)... Well when I saw that I had a thought on it, nothing as clever and complicated as yours McEwok It's funny how she can accuse the Jedi of being sick after she has just tortured Jacen I don't think she was sorry about it either. Shes... evil! As fascinating as I find Vergere, she really is the stuff of nightmares. And it doesn't help that I'm afraid of chickens (yes, seriously one attacked me when I was a child) [we need a face_terrified icon]! -----signature----- Daala is the new Jar-Jar!
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Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/13 9:50am Subject: It's... NJO-tional Retcon Week!!!
	Caine-chan posted: Well when I saw that I had a thought on it, nothing as clever and complicated as yours McEwok It's funny how she can accuse the Jedi of being sick after she has just tortured Jacen I don't think she was sorry about it either. Ironic, isn't it. To up the thread, a quick retcon about the Voxyn: *** In Star by Star, we're told that the voxyn's "genetic codes always map the same", too similar to come from two separate creature (ch. 8), which lets the Jedi realise that they're cloning them all from a single original, the "voxyn queen"; when they work out that this prime clone is on Myrkr, they decide to "go after the queen" (ch. 13), in order to stop the cloning project... So, how does this work? If all the voxyn are genetically identical, why can't the Yuuzhan Vong just clone a clone? So far, explanations have tended to focus on the Jedi simply not thinking through the mission, and/or the Yuuzhan Vong having an objection with secondary cloning... However, there's another way to look at this: the voxyn is a shaped vornskr, created in a damutek, with large numbers of implants and modifications; while the shaped vornskr part is essentially identical in the clones, what if the voxyn queen was the only viable prime clone where the implants and modifications that turned it into a voxyn would properly "export" to the clones? There must be additional, invasive, material in every cell of the voxyn, comparable to the subcellular "spawn" created by surge-coral, which spread through the bodies of implanted slaves (including Anakin Solo, one presumes, and possibly even Jacen since Belkadan... ). And it's THIS that requires them to use the voxyn queen as a prime clone, because, while the clones DO become functional voxyn, the clones' implants aren't as stable, so they can't be used effectively to "seed" further clones... *** Now... would anyone like to know why the Yuuzhan Vong are right, and the Jedi... aren't! - The Imperial Ewok -----signature----- A/T = OTP :===8[#]8===: Kyp/Jaina fans: stand up and be counted!
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