Author Topic: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Havac  14314 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 11/2 12:25am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

 

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JediMasterNicolas  831 posts
Registered: Jun '05
7434_Gilad Pellaeon
Date Posted: 11/2 7:43am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Havac posted:



At the bottom, in really small font, it should say "Kind of."

Seriously though, for what it was worth I enjoyed the book just like I've enjoyed the rest of them. Yes there are flaws with how it fits in the overall setting, but it boils down to a story of a large extended family who would do anything for each other, and I really dig that.

 

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Liliedhe  492 posts
Registered: Feb '09
14356_Depa Billaba
Date Posted: 11/2 8:54am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Reading it slowly^^, and at least it doesn't hurt so far (contrary to Order 66).

Although, there was one little scene that once again made it clear to me that KT isn't writing Star Wars. She is writing something original that has been clothed in STar Wars costumes.

Imperial Commando 501st posted:
Vader stood with his thumbs hooked into his belt [...]


This is the typical swaggering commander of a generic military novel. He's just been dressed up in black and hooked to a respirator.^^

Such things kick me out of the universe faster than you can say "Suspension of Disbelief".

But I noted a distinct improval of her style compared to No Prisoners, it reads better, at least in the few pages I've finished.

 

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Novall_Talon  76 posts
Registered: Jul '07
42067_Jango Fett
Date Posted: 11/2 9:18am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Liliedhe posted:


Imperial Commando 501st posted:
Vader stood with his thumbs hooked into his belt [...]


This is the typical swaggering commander of a generic military novel. He's just been dressed up in black and hooked to a respirator.^^




If you remember, Vader does something very similar to this in ESB during the Echo Base attack. Watch the hologram conversation between Vader and Veers.

 

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Rogue_Follower  8555 posts
Title: Manager:
• Lit

Registered: Nov '03
6468_Blackhole
Date Posted: 11/2 9:25am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Yeah, that's actually a pretty common Vader pose. Iconic, even.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

 

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Sinrebirth  19002 posts
Title: Sith Emperor of the SWC
Registered: Nov '04
47748_Dath Vectivus
Date Posted: 11/2 11:06am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Havac posted:
I was talking with Hydro and realized: Spar, at this point, is being used wholly in name only. Think: what were Spar's traits, as a character, at this point in time?

He was a clone named Spar. He suffered from reemerging memories of Jango's that made him unstable. He fled Tipoca City before the Clone Wars. He became Mandalore, acting as Jango's heir. He rallied the Mandalorians, building a new corps of 212 that fought under the Separatists.

What are his traits in Travissland?

He's a clone named Spar. He was never actually insane. He never became Mandalore. He never built the 212 and fought for the Separatists. He's a wholly generic character. He's just some ARC deserter. He has, in fact, been used so generically, that in 501st, Traviss erases the last trace of his story that she actually hung onto: leaving Tipoca before the war. She has him spout off about how he got inoculations from the Republic during the war against Separatist bioweapons. He's become so generic that she actually forgets the last piece of backstory for him. She's down to using him wholly in name only.

What the hell's the point?


Oh, don't forget, as Mandalore the Resurrector he overthrew the New Mandalorian as a philosophy. So every time his original backstory is undermined, the New Mandalorians become entrenched in continuity. Because how can Mandalore the Resurrector resurrect anything if he doesn't exist? laugh

RETCON! Spar in Traviss novels is another clone called 'Spar'. As Traviss notes herself, many clones have the name. mischief The new Clone Wars continuity simply nudges forward Mandalore the Resurrector being deposed to before Order 66 (or whatever book Spar appeared in). wink

 

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Tricky  5356 posts
Registered: Jul '01
43253_Boba Fett
Date Posted: 11/2 12:39pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Who's this new female Mandalore with her peace loving Mando group that going to be in Season 2 of The Clone Wars animated? Is she going to replace/be retconned as Spar, cause I figure her introduction in CWAS is the reason why Karen Traviss quit working for Star Wars?

Traviss has been writing Kal Skirata & Jango Fett as Mandalores, cheiftain of all cheiftains since she started writing Boba Fett: A Practical Man, why wouldn't she want to write a story about her slick AWOL ARC-trooper as Mandalore the Ressurector? I think someone else told her she couldn't, that a decisions been made that Fenn Shysa, Tobi Daala & a teenage Boba Fett are going to follow this new female Mandaore to fight the Empire...as the finale' of Season 2. Either way, Traviss' retcons or CWAS massive retcons, all the SW Marvel comics are going away forever.

 

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Novall_Talon  76 posts
Registered: Jul '07
42067_Jango Fett
Date Posted: 11/2 12:58pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Tricky posted:
Who's this new female Mandalore with her peace loving Mando group that going to be in Season 2 of The Clone Wars animated? Is she going to replace/be retconned as Spar, cause I figure her introduction in CWAS is the reason why Karen Traviss quit working for Star Wars?


I don't think the Duchess is supposed to be the "Mandalore" according to the Atlas, just the leader of the New Mandalorian faction. Being a Mandalore means that you actually have to follow the Mandalorian ways (Resol'nare)...and the New Mandalorians look to be the furthest thing from Mandalorians we can get (I still don't understand why they are even calling them Mandalorians").

 

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Arawn_Fenn  10379 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 11/2 3:27pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Did I hear the Death Watch is back? dancing

 

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_Catherine_  1038 posts
Registered: Jun '07
23521_Handmaiden
Date Posted: 11/2 7:58pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Havac posted:
I was talking with Hydro and realized: Spar, at this point, is being used wholly in name only.
I'm going to quote this post again here because I love it:

DarthUr posted:
And this is why I see Traviss' handling of Mandalorians as a constant unending process of Mary Sue-ification. Anything that other writers insert into the Mandalorians that make them less than perfect -- the fact that, for instance, they were mistaken about something once in their lives, that they were vulnerable to the same kind of personality-cult religious manipulation that basically all cultures have been at some point in time -- has to be retconned away.

The Mandalorians are this kind of ideal for Traviss, the ultimate goodhearted badass pragmatists who basically don't make mistakes, are morally correct about everything and admired by everyone.

And I just find that really annoying. It's especially annoying because it makes her Mando characters *all the same*.

Spar as a deluded madman whose delusions nevertheless push him to heroic heights and reignite the Mando culture -- that was pretty awesome. That's a very interesting character arc that doesn't have a clear parallel in current SW canon. The implications having to do with religion and legitimacy and historical vs. spiritual truth and the nature of mental illness and identity -- it was chock full of potential. Abel is very good at writing hooks like that. That was *really cool*.

Compare it to what we've got now. More pragmatic Mando politics. More smartass Mandos who come up with grand plans that work out perfectly. Actively *mocking* Abel's article and the much-more-interesting culturally-atavistic-madman version of Spar with Spar's sarcastic jokes about "voices in his head".

It seems like nothing can ever happen on Mandalore except canny political manipulators doing the difficult-yet-pragmatically-correct thing to preserve Mando culture and cracking black-humor jokes about killing people while doing it.

Seriously, I cannot express how disappointing and annoying it is to have the charismatic genius Spar was presented as turn out to be JUST ANOTHER MANDALORIAN who has the exact same character voice and motivations as EVERY OTHER MANDALORIAN.

 

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TalonCard  7502 posts
Title:
•Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd
•TFN EU Staff

Registered: Jan '01
6036_Pit Droid
Date Posted: 11/2 8:40pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Tricky posted:
Either way, Traviss' retcons or CWAS massive retcons, all the SW Marvel comics are going away forever.


That makes very, very little sense. Traviss has bent over backwards to acknowledge the events presented in the Marvel comics (albeit while ignoring the retcons that make them work.) Why else would she reference the City of Bone, or Leia's relationship with Fenn Shysa, or even Fenn Shysa himself for that matter? And as for the CWAS, the Marvel comics have probably been the least affected by the new series. Boba Fett joining the Mandalorians isn't a problem because that's what the Marvel comics had in mind all along. And how are these two sources going to make my Marvel comics go away forever? Are we talking the individual issues that are going to vanish, or just the collections?

TC

 

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QuentinGeorge  4763 posts
Registered: Dec '03
48582_Kaan (60609)
Date Posted: 11/2 9:28pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Dave Filoni distracts you while George Lucas burgles your house, Taloncard. wink

 

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Havac  14314 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 11/2 10:29pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
TalonCard posted:
Tricky posted:
Either way, Traviss' retcons or CWAS massive retcons, all the SW Marvel comics are going away forever.


That makes very, very little sense. Traviss has bent over backwards to acknowledge the events presented in the Marvel comics (albeit while ignoring the retcons that make them work.) Why else would she reference the City of Bone, or Leia's relationship with Fenn Shysa, or even Fenn Shysa himself for that matter?

No, she's bent over backwards to take the names associated with the Marvel comics, erase all the facts established about them (you know, everything that makes them actual content, actual continuity, and not just names), and rewrite them as new, genericized Skirata-approved crap that has nothing to do with the Marvel comics and the continuity built up around them except a name and a very vague outline of an idea of what they're about.

That's not the same thing. It's the opposite thing. To acknowledge something suggests you acknowledge its canonical existence. This is tearing down the canonical existence of something, and then acknowledging the new creation you have erected in its place. When a developer knocks down a historic building and puts up condos in its place with the same name as the building, you don't say he went out of his way to acknowledge the historicity of the building, to accommodate it. You say he bulldozed it and put up something else.

 

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TalonCard  7502 posts
Title:
•Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd
•TFN EU Staff

Registered: Jan '01
6036_Pit Droid
Date Posted: 11/2 11:19pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Calm down, Havac. Good or bad, it's an acknowledgment of what came before. Even if it's not done in a way we'd like (and goodness knows I'm no fan of the Mythosaur city retcon or the back and forth nonsense with Spar), it's not exactly negating the original sources, and definitely not to the degree Tricky suggests. "All the SW Marvel comics are going away forever." Ridiculous.

TC

 

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DarthStymi  449 posts
Registered: Jan '02
49037_Imperial Commando (80409)
Date Posted: 11/3 4:26am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
So, anyone here who's reading it actually like the book? I happen to really enjoy it so far.

Is is even possible to discuss a book Traviss has written without nitpicking every continuity error (who cares anyway) or discussing the horrendous travesties of Traviss?

I just read the meeting between Kal and Fenn. Thought it was pretty cool. I'm curious to see how Kal will work out his moral dilemma with his conscience. And is not telling his crew of the Mandalore's request also a form of depriving the clones of choice?

 

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