Jedi Council Forums - The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

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Author	Topic: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
JediWampa Registered: Feb '00	Date Posted: 11/3 5:47am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 11/3 6:37am (1 edits total) Edited By: JediWampa
	DarthStymi posted: So, anyone here who's reading it actually like the book? I happen to really enjoy it so far. A lot of people have enjoyed the books, including the newest. I'm one of them. The voices just get drowned out incessantly. DarthStymi posted: Is is even possible to discuss a book Traviss has written without nitpicking every continuity error (who cares anyway) or discussing the horrendous travesties of Traviss? No. -----signature----- ".....broadcast origin.......sixth planet.....Hoth system........."
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DarthStymi Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 11/3 6:09am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	JediWampa posted: DarthStymi posted: So, anyone here who's reading it actually like the book? I happen to really enjoy it so far. A lot of people have enjoyed the books, including the newest. I'm one of them. The voices just get drowned out incessantly. DarthStymi posted: Is is even possible to discuss a book Traviss has written without nitpicking every continuity error (who cares anyway) or discussing the horrendous travesties of Traviss? No. So true--on both accounts. -----signature----- "...the first condition of the hero's journey is recociliation with the grave."-Joseph Campbell Mando'ad draar digu.
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AdmiralWesJanson Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 11/3 8:04am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	JediWampa posted: DarthStymi posted: Is is even possible to discuss a book Traviss has written without nitpicking every continuity error (who cares anyway) or discussing the horrendous travesties of Traviss? No. So far most authors have a trait that people seem to flock to complaining about. Traviss: Little to no respect for the canon/continuity Zahn: Creates Mary Sue characters Allston: Juvenile Humor Denning: Vocabulary issues at times, crazy plots KJA: Obsession with the movies planets and superweapons There's more. Most authors seem to have a theme of complaints against them. I suppose it is group mentality, though for each theme you can find a few people who are the most outspoken about each. -----signature----- Duke of Corellia Join the Corellian Browncoats in their fight against the evil Alliance! Fix the K-Wing! No more XJs! Make the next X-Wing a T-65K!
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MsLanna Title: CR GSFF Central = Offizieller Burger Brater Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 11/3 9:18am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	DarthStymi posted: JediWampa posted: DarthStymi posted: So, anyone here who's reading it actually like the book? I happen to really enjoy it so far. A lot of people have enjoyed the books, including the newest. I'm one of them. The voices just get drowned out incessantly. DarthStymi posted: Is is even possible to discuss a book Traviss has written without nitpicking every continuity error (who cares anyway) or discussing the horrendous travesties of Traviss? No. So true--on both accounts. You know, posts like that lead to instant adoption from me. So beware. I find very little to reply to most post here. I tried but - shrug... Anyway, back to Kal and his wish to give his boys choices. He says that a lot, but when it comes down to it, he actually tends to decide what's good for them again. He's a bit overprotective. And Dar seems to be the only one so far who broke the circle and does his own thing. It doesn't matter that, most likely, it will be running contrary to Kal's plans. He got the point. I also like how Kal thinks he's so Mando, but in the end puts his own goals first. It fits his character very well. -----signature----- I give up. Fett is great. Member of the waadas'dar Club. Cuyir adate jate, bal droten ori'dush Proud Master and buir'ika of Commander_Ducky. My New Title: Lords and Ladies of the Empire
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purpilian Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 11/3 10:22am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	Is it ever stated how Scout and Kina Ha escape the clones? I know Ny helps but where were they?
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Lord_Hydronium Title: Literature Gardener Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 11/3 11:54am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 11/3 1:03pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Lord_Hydronium
	DarthStymi posted: Is is even possible to discuss a book Traviss has written without nitpicking every continuity error (who cares anyway) We'll have none of this, mmkay? As long as it's on topic, people can discuss what aspects of the book they want. The fact that you don't care doesn't mean no one cares. -----signature----- Great midis have little midis Swimming round inside 'em And little midis have lesser midis And so ad infinitum.
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The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 11/3 2:31pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	DarthStymi posted: Is is even possible to discuss a book Traviss has written without nitpicking every continuity error (who cares anyway) or discussing the horrendous travesties of Traviss? If nobody cared, Stymi-San, it would not be cause for discussion. -----signature----- "You were fantastic. We're free!" "Kara, we're inside a Russian airbase in the middle of Afghanistan."
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Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 11/3 2:35pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 11/3 2:37pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Thrawn McEwok
	killfire posted: You know what's coming, right? So Jagged Fel is a Spaarti-clone? high-fives But yes, obviously. patchworkz7 posted: Total agreement with McEwok (no, this isn't a trick, you can come back to the keyboard, it's not about to explode on you), Did we just stumble into a Bizarro version of TF.N? patchworkz7 posted: ... because of the sheer amount of flash training these clones would have had to endure. Which also may be why there's instability in the matrix, if there is in fact instability. They aren't taught the way we think of people being "taught" anything, it's all subliminal imprinting. The Spaarti don't have the muscle memory even if they have the skill sets, but more important, anyone who doesn't think Palpatine was loading up those flash training sims with loads of other stuff...well, if you can learn a marching song under flash training, you can learn opinions on following orders, the goodness and validity of the Galactic Empire, and anything else the programmers want you to know. One reason I've always said the genetic tweaking for loyalty wasn't as important is because we're talking about beings who were constantly conditioned in their sleep to obey orders and taught everything they needed to know by having it squirted directly into their brains. How do they know they've ever had a thought that wasn't put there by Palpatine? I think I agree more or less with patch, too (are you confused, guys? ). I don't think that the amount of flash-training per se is necessarily the cause, as we've seen perfectly stable and capable clones produced in one week from Clone Wars-era equipment, but I suspect that the sheer weight of their training is going to be limiting. The Fel clones or even the Tierce clone were probably VERY carefully "designed", but troopers like Rede have been brainwashed and brutalized, and don't have the skill-set to deal with it in the slightest. Another thought that may be relevant here - the Eye of Palpatine had flash-printing tech designed to retrain troopers with entire skill-sets and new personalities. Pretty brute-force stuff too, that ended up producing Basic-speaking Gamorrean stormtroopers, and conditioning a Jedi Master to percieve them as human. Someone like Rede could be designed for "redeployment" in the same way... Havac posted: corpses That actually brought a little tear to the corner of my eye... Liliedhe posted: Imperial Commando 501st posted: Vader stood with his thumbs hooked into his belt [...] This is the typical swaggering commander of a generic military novel. As people have already said, it's the iconic "Vader pose", or even "Jedi pose", also used by General Ben Kenobi (bluffs above Mos Eisley) and Anakin Solo (annoying Mara in Balance Point)... That's good Star Wars writing. And a salutory lessen for knee-jerks. - The Imperial Ewok -----signature----- A/T = OTP :===8[#]8===: Kyp/Jaina fans: stand up and be counted!
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Valin__Kenobi Title: Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 11/3 11:48pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 11/3 11:50pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Valin__Kenobi
	TalonCard posted: Calm down, Havac. Good or bad, it's an acknowledgment of what came before. Even if it's not done in a way we'd like (and goodness knows I'm no fan of the Mythosaur city retcon or the back and forth nonsense with Spar), it's not exactly negating the original sources, and definitely not to the degree Tricky suggests. "All the SW Marvel comics are going away forever." Ridiculous. It's not much of an "acknowledgment" when she just mines the Holocron for names and then plugs them into her stories with little regard for context or original intent. It's been well established that she doesn't actually READ any of the published EU, so when she uses, say, Djinn Altis, she isn't so much giving a nod to Children of the Jedi (which she's never read) as she is namedropping some random dude she heard of. -----signature----- Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Fanboy: http://blogs.starwars.com/valinkenobi Generation Bantam/KJA/WEG "Before the "Oprah effect" bookstores were like monasteries. Now it's like going to Best Buy." -- Arawn_Fenn
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TalonCard Title: •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff Registered: Jan '01	Date Posted: 11/4 5:42am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	First, the truth lies somewhere in between. Altis's portrayal and use isn't exactly what one would expect from Children of the Jedi, but it isn't wholly inappropriate either. I would've liked to see more fidelity to the original source, but he was better used as Traviss has been using him than not at all. There is some regard to the original source here, just not the same that we'd like to see. It happens; it happens with every author. Traviss is biased towards a certain viewpoint in her stories, certainly, and it's one thing to take issue with that. (I know I do!) It's another to act as though she has more continuity problems than most of the other authors working now. Every author does this to a certain degree. Altis, for example, had gaping holes in his story to begin with because Anderson and Hambly didn't work harder to coordinate their stories--he effectively has two different backgrounds in Children of the Jedi and Darksaber. For exhibit A. on the subject of authorial plugging in characters with no regard for context or original intent, one need look no farther than CoS Daala in Invincible onwards. It's clear from the FOTJ series that even if authors have read the JAT or TTT, they haven't done so recently enough for it to show in the novels. Traviss isn't alone in this; nor is she always the worst offender. If anything, we notice it more because she has more references (taken from Holocron research, yes) than others do. (And because she has a general approach that is remarkably different from most authors. But really, as much as I personally dislike it, if we can't take that as read by now, when will we? ) TC -----signature----- Death in the Slave Pits: http://www.starwars.com/hyperspace/fiction/feature20090531/index.html GODV Guide: www.myuselessknowledge.com/swfa/main.html Hyperspace Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/taloncard
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DarthStymi Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 11/4 5:55am Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	Lord_Hydronium posted: DarthStymi posted: Is is even possible to discuss a book Traviss has written without nitpicking every continuity error (who cares anyway) We'll have none of this, mmkay? As long as it's on topic, people can discuss what aspects of the book they want. The fact that you don't care doesn't mean no one cares. I didn't realize my opinions were infringing on anyone's rights. Clearly people care about continuity issues and tons of others things I don't care about. I just wanted there to be a voice for those who don't think KT is the worst thing to happen to the EU (there are other voices out there, but they get buried in the constant, repetitive arguments of the awful offenses KT has committed). And my bringing up this issue in regards to the book is as valid and on-topic as anything else. In the book, I just got past the scene with Jaller Obrim, Niner, and Darman. Interesting interactions going on there. I'm thinking Jaller will go down eventually. And clearly Darman's partitioning off aspects of his memory and identity will not lead to anything good for him. Darman is arguably now the most dynamic character of the series. -----signature----- "...the first condition of the hero's journey is recociliation with the grave."-Joseph Campbell Mando'ad draar digu.
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MsLanna Title: CR GSFF Central = Offizieller Burger Brater Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 11/4 12:20pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 11/4 10:43pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Havac
	Same thing. The only thing you can do is bring up other topics for dicussion and ignore the continuty talk. Leave it to those who care about it. Hope that those who want to discuss other aspects return one day. Oh,a nd if tehre's somebody kind enough to talk about anything else, reply to it. Show that tehre is something else being discussed here. It's not an easy job, certainly thankless, but the only thing that work. Oh, you can also get yourself banned. It's an option I did consider in the past. Sooo, Obrim. He is certainly walking a fine edge. I hope he doesn't get caught, but anyhting is possible. If he's killed, I just hope it is for something that is worth it. He has always worked a little 'against' the system he was working under. Getting the job done, even it that means bending the rules. I think, he'll be in more trouble with this in the EMpire than the Republic. I liked how Niner was trying to get all the unspoken messages in the conversation with Obrim. His worries were only adding to his difficulties of getting it. I also like how he keeps questioning his sanity. If more clones react like him to being in the Empire suddenly, I can see them go mad easily. I just wonder how the transition was for otehr squads. Ennen and Bry showed a very different 'clone culture'. It's something I'd like to see expanded on. By now, we know pretty well how Skirata trained clones tick, but what about thos trained by the 99 other Cuy val'dar? -----signature----- I give up. Fett is great. Member of the waadas'dar Club. Cuyir adate jate, bal droten ori'dush Proud Master and buir'ika of Commander_Ducky. My New Title: Lords and Ladies of the Empire
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DarthStymi Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 11/4 1:05pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 11/4 5:59pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Lord_Hydronium
	I said to drop it. I agree with your thoughts on Niner, but Obrim's actions seemed to normalize Niner's paranoia for him. It would be cool to see the culture of other commandos. But I doubt we'll get much more of that--at least not from these last two KT novels. -----signature----- "...the first condition of the hero's journey is recociliation with the grave."-Joseph Campbell Mando'ad draar digu.
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MsLanna Title: CR GSFF Central = Offizieller Burger Brater Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 11/4 1:33pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	Maybe I should have used instead of after all. But people tend to laugh at me for my addiction to these little yellow fellows. Eh, Darth Typo again. And I even beta-read that post. Just because Niner is correct, that doesn't mean it can't drive him crazy. There is a difference of suspecting you are surveyed all the time and knowing, but I am not sure which is worse. I also wonder if all 'old' clones are now so watched, or only the squads that worked closely with Jedi. I don't think we'll get other commando cultures from the remaining Traviss book eithhr. But it's out there. And as long as it is, I'll keep the hope that one day some author gets interested in it, too. -----signature----- I give up. Fett is great. Member of the waadas'dar Club. Cuyir adate jate, bal droten ori'dush Proud Master and buir'ika of Commander_Ducky. My New Title: Lords and Ladies of the Empire
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DarthStymi Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 11/4 1:41pm Subject: The Official Imperial Commando: 501st Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	Now if you've read further in the book than I have so far and know Niner goes nuts, I claim no fair. (I use 'em too--I also have more than my share of proudly displayed typos.) But I just don't see Niner going crazy. If anything, he's the one keeping Darman grounded. Darman, with his dual personalities that he likes to keep separate, is a much more likely candidate, or so it seems to be, to lose touch with reality. He could go all Anakin on us--except without the whole Force and Chosen One thing. That's not a prediction, BTW. -----signature----- "...the first condition of the hero's journey is recociliation with the grave."-Joseph Campbell Mando'ad draar digu.
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