Jedi Council Forums - 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!

Post Reply | Active Topic Notification | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

Author	Topic: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
beccatoria Title: Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 11/1 5:20am Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	Hello! I'm back! This week we will be discussing X-Wing: Rogue Squadron by Michael Stackpole. Here's a link to the TF.n Staff Reviews. So - first off, a confession; this was actually my first time reading the book. I've never actually read the X-Wing series, though I've become familiar with the basic arc and characters through familiarity with the rest of the EU, so this was an interesting experience for me. With that in mind, here are some broad discussion points: - It's generally possible to split the EU novels into two groups; the novels that focus on the Big Three and the major galaxy-spanning plot-arcs, usually with a huge focus on the Jedi - NJO, DNT, LOTF, FOTJ etc, and the novels that focus more on original characters during those big events - X-Wing, MedStar, RepCom, etc. This is, pretty much, the original "spinoff" series, although, being Stackpole, it has great ties back to the Thrawn Trilogy (Katana Fleet shoutout FTW!) Anyway; by now, this is one of the iconic series of novels, but how do you think it fits in with the rest of the Bantam era? What did you originally make of the decision to focus on original characters, and what do you think of it in retrospect? Published in the mid-90s this really is some of the earliest EU after its unofficial resuscitation in '93. How does it hold up today? - What about the characters themselves? By now Corran is an EU staple. Here we meet him pre-Jedihood, and entertainingly less aware of his own tendencies toward arrogance than he is by the time he stars in I, Jedi. It's the first trip out for Wedge as a major character rather than few-line extra in the movies and Stackpole essentially constructs a lot of his character here. Tycho Celchu cuts an intriguing figure, embroiled in controversy and put under major restrictions - set ups to plotlines that will, I assume, payoff down the line. Not to mention the introduction of Mirax, and all the other Rogues. Personally I was surprised by how much I found myself enjoying Ooryl, who I recalled vaguely from I, Jedi. What did you make of the various characters? Any favourites? Any you disliked? - If we're gonna talk protagonists, we also ought to talk antagonists. Ysanne Isard and Kirtan Loor. Isard is arguably something of a stereotype - the hardnosed enemy intelligence agent, older, threatening, but ultimately doomed to defeat by virtue of being the enemy. The question is, does the character wear it well? Loor is perhaps more intriguing - I confess I was not expecting to see a villain becoming slowly more aware of their own shortcomings and indeed accepting and attempting to work around these. However, at the end, his shortcomings are still a feature in Ysard's plan; does this undercut his status or does he work best as, essentially, a henchman? - Finally, let's talk about the writing style itself. I'm a fan of Stackpole - his entries into the NJO are among my favourites - but how do you think he fared here? As a novel about fighter pilots, it features a lot of action battle sequences - did you find these easy to understand, or did you have trouble imagining them? What about his handling of the romantic subplots or the humour? - Bonus: I'm manifestly not a fleet junkie - I don't even know what the Star Destroyer Length controversy is ABOUT! But there are a looooot of ships in this, so if any Fleet Junkies want to chip in here and explain stuff I'm missing, please, feel free! And, over to you guys! In December we will be discussing X-Wing: Wedge's Gamble by Michael Stackpole. -----signature----- legatus imperatoris britanniæ superior REMEMBER: X-WING: WEDGE'S GAMBLE DISCUSSION STARTS IN DECEMBER! Han's a girl, so I got a Golden Ewok.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 11/1 12:16pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	Well, it's really more second- or third-wave than early EU-renaissance (dammit Trip, where's my thread?), but it certainly had a huge impact on everything coming after it. What I'd really like to know, though, is how the heck they came to the conclusion, "You know what, let's have a whole huge multi-book series about Wedge Antilles. You know, that guy who appears in the background of the movies as a tertiary character. Let's focus a series around him and a gang of all-new characters who never have significant interaction with any of the major movie characters, and follow them as they fly around blowing crap up and bringing down an all-new villain." It seems insane. But it's genius, and the EU benefits so much from that bold move. As for fitting with Bantam, well, the benefits heavily from being third-wave Bantam (DAMMIT TRIP WHERE'S MY THREAD?), so a lot of the major stuff is already out there to latch onto, and cohesion is increasingly good. Stackpole makes great use of other material; the only problem is that as much as he loves to use Zahn's stuff, he's terrible at tying into it. TTT had Coruscant captured a couple months before Thrawn's resurgence; this has it two and a half years before. TTT has Wedge a commander who does his job quietly and isn't well known; Mara has no idea who he is. Here, he's an uberfamous legend and everyone should be aware of him. Little trips over Zahn's actual material like that are pretty profuse. The best relationship, really, comes from later EU being able to pull from the series. Wedge, at the time Stackpole was writing him, was widely written -- as Commander Antilles and then suddenly as General Antilles -- but there wasn't much to him; he was just this sort of background soldiery character. Stackpole didn't revolutionize the character, but he added a lot of depth to him and fleshed him out in a way that impacted future portrayals. His vast supporting cast is probably his biggest contribution -- from Corran to Tycho to Gavin to Nawara to Iella to Derricote to Iceheart to Armand Isard to Booster to Nejaa Halcyon to Inyri, his cast has an enormous footprint in subsequent EU. Probably two-thirds of the major preeixsting supporting characters in the NJO, which was the big tying-together of all previous EU, were castmembers from the Stackpole/Zahn/Allston axis (the rest being from the Anderson/Moesta/Veitch axis). Despite their weird verbal tics and tendency toward the Stackpole Single-Voice Life-Lecture Moment, I enjoy Stackpole's cast immensely. I love the hell out of them. Wedge? AWESOME. Tycho? AWESOME. Gavin? AWESOME. Booster? AWESOME. Corran? AWESOME. The thing with Stackpole is that he's amazing at actually developing characters. He makes them feel like real people. Corran's got a dad, a mom, a job, a family history, a thorough set of mannerisms and personality traits, opinions on popular culture, favorite foods. He lives very much in the real world, while avoiding the Travissian tendency to live in the 21st-century Western world. Stackpole fleshes out a real world yet leaves it an exotic, space-operatic real world, and he just excels at giving his characters depth. Tycho's got an extensive backstory that includes his parents' occupations, a childhood girlfriend. We've never heard a peep about Hobbie or Janson's childhood -- because Stackpole never really got to them. Gavin, like a real person, has parents and siblings and cousins and a past that doesn't shape his dramatic role but fleshes out his person. When was the last time you saw Star Wars giving a secondary character like this these full touches? The disadvantage to this deep characterization is that other supporting characters don't get a ton of attention, and it becomes easy to tell who's cannon fodder, but it's a worthwhile trade. Other supporting characters like Lujayne and Ooryl get enough development to serve excellently, so there really aren't any problems. Great antagonists. Great. Isard is not a particularly nuanced antagonist, not really a triumph of villainy like Thrawn or Nil Spaar, but she's smart, ruthless, devious, despicable -- she's got the core qualities you need in a villain. She's also interesting in that she's not a physical villain, like Darth Vader or Alema Rar, or a military villain like Thrawn or Tsavong Lah. She's simply a leader. She plots, she plans, she's got the unsettling ability to know everything. She's the spider in the middle of the web, using minions, and that's great for a serial villain, which is what she is. She benefits in iconicness from having longevity. She's there for four-plus books, a big manipulative villain who gets faced again and again, wins and loses, and is always coming after the characters. They don't face her -- they face her minions, these excellent secondary antagonists. Loor, Derricote . . . and, well, I won't spoil the last three for Becca in case she doesn't know. It adds depth, it gives you a real rogues gallery (no pun intended) of antagonists that really helps set the tone that this isn't just a one-off story -- it's a serial, ongoing adventure that stands as its own series. Loor is the masterpiece of the secondary antagonists, someone with a personal enmity with Corran, someone who's competent but not uber-competent. He's smart, dangerous -- but overconfident, imperfect. He's only a middling villain. And he knows it, and he has to understand his own weaknesses and strive against himself to achieve and to survive, until he reaches his awesome apotheosis in TKT. Stackpole's prose is imperfect. His voicing of characters could use work. But his characterization, his grasp of the universe, his ability to flesh out everything -- they're truly remarkable. He's a decent author with his set of flaws in terms of prose, and a bit heavy on the "Woo cartoonvillainous Imps!" side. But in other areas, areas important to Star Wars as a setting, he's just unparalleled. He's indispensable in terms of making the EU as good as it has been. And that's why I'd love to have him back. His humor is okay, falls a bit in the trap of his sometimes stilted dialogue, but romance is where he shines. Stackpole is a guy who knows that the spark of romance lights up a book. It's not heavy in Rogue Squadron itself, but he lays the seeds for Corran's pull between Erisi and Mirax here, and he builds up the romance in the rest of his work to about its greatest heights in the EU. It's never sappy, never a sodden saccharine mess, but it's there, it's forthrightly romantic, it's relationships and love and lust, it permeates the story and connects the characters, but it never distracts and it's never the main plot. It's a realistic, yet romantic thread throughout the stories that never gets out of hand yet is never subordinated to action and adventure. Stackpole and Allston are really the only guys in the EU who have done romance right (Crispin and Cunningham being the only gals I can recall who have done it right). -----signature----- "Is there a captain's hat involved in this?" "I . . . don't know what department I want. I need . . . pants."
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 11/1 12:59pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron! - Date Edited: 11/1 1:38pm (1 edits total) Edited By: blackmyron
	Hmmm, it's hard to think of anything to add to that. On a personal note, Rogue Squadron was the reason I got back into Star Wars. I had given up after a frustrating run with the proto-EU ending with focusing on the Ewoks, probably the people I care about the least in the movies. I had heard good things about the WEG RPG (being also an old-school gamer) and been aware of the Zahn trilogy, but I didn't want to invest any time or effort into spin-off material that wasn't actually real, like the Star Trek offshoots. (In a fit of irony, I ended up burning myself years later with purchasing the well-written and researched Star Trek RPG material from Last Unicorn Games which was 100% absolutely ignored in all ways by Paramount). My older cousin was also a Star Wars fan from way back and on a family visit I noticed he was reading the Rogue Squadron series (which was up to the Krytos Trap at that point). Now I was a fan of Lucasarts games at the time, and X-Wing was one of my favorites - so I asked him about the series. When he told me it was set after the movies, and focused on Wedge (one of my favorites, based on my penchant for focusing on minor characters) and other brand-new characters... well, that sold me. And hey, it's not full of Jedi, or Sith, or Mandos but at the same time they're clearly there, like the movie characters. The book walks the line between not going over some of the cliches of the movies while still feeling like it's set in the Star Wars universe. It's a fine line and I'm thankful Stackpole was able to walk it. As far as it sits in the series, it resembles the final one. The other books are all about significant events in SW history, but relatively speaking the first is somewhat quiet, and the triumphs low-scale. Of course, much of it is to set up the rest of Stackpole's run but it was enjoyable to have a slower-paced adventure before the action shifts into high gear in Wedge's Gamble. And the deaths. Another surprise, that the character deaths of members of Rogue Squadron don't have to be grand events, but somewhat ordinary deaths in battles or combat. -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
xoubara Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 11/1 1:23pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	Well, I wanted to write quite a few things, but Havac has already said everything I had in mind. I think Rogue Squadron is the best thing the EU has to offer along with TNJO. The most similar thing we have had is the republic commando series, except for the controversy regarding Traviss and the antijedi sentiment. I just hope that now that the books are lighter Stackpole decides to come back to the SW universe. I'm sure he has great stories to tell.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Barriss_Coffee Registered: Jun '03	Date Posted: 11/1 2:27pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	While I sometimes found this particular X-Wing book a little dull at times (I'm not much of a fan of reading space battles), I have the greatest respect for Stakepole's way with characters. Wedge, Corran, Lujayne, Ooryl, Kirtan -- these were all awesome characters. He pretty much set the basis for the way Wedge and Corran would be written (or attempt to be written) by other authors. Looking back on it, there were a lot of little subtle social interactions or quirky things the characters would do or say that added tremendously to their characterization. He was also a master at internal monologue; I don't think any other SW author used the italicized representation of thought to the extent he did. This was also the first true "EU" book I ever read next to a novelization, so I'm also a little partial to it. -----signature----- SAN HILL LIVES!
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Darth_Zandalor Registered: Aug '09	Date Posted: 11/1 4:56pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	I'd read this book years ago, but I lost my original copy. So just a couple months ago, I was like, screw it, and went out and purchased it again. Best ten dollar investment, EVER! Holy crap I forgot how awesome this book was. The Lancer Frigate attack, actually dangerous stormtroopers! Emtrey! Just everything about this book is terrific. All out space combat, Defender Wing's rivalry with Rogue Squadron, and the all powerful Pulsar Skate! Love every little thing this book has to offer.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Bly Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 11/1 5:29pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	I think one underappreciated aspect of this book would have to be General Salm and the bomber boys of Defender Wing. It really reminded me of how during World War II the bombers did all the heavy lifting, but the fighters got all the glory, and Salm's relationship with Wedge reflects that. While Wedge isn't above bending the rules every now and then (rules which are apparently made of rubber when you're a Rogue), Salm conducts himself as a soldier's soldier, someone who tries to uphold the rules and regulations that he swore an oath to when he first joined up. He's so devoted to being this professional military man that when he disobeys orders to save Wedge's arse during Kre'fey's humongous screwup, he beats himself up for it afterward. He's constantly trying to keep the Rogues in order and being a douchebag in the process because that's what his orders have him doing. The poor sod has gotten probably the most unenviable job in the New Republic military, and he's reaping the whirlwind, but he's doing it willingly. And Wedge respects him for that, and it seems as if Salm respects him for his skills, if not for his military bearing. It's a shame that he pretty much disappeared after this novel (as did his Wraith Squadron equivalent General Crespin), which is unfortunate since it was nice seeing what it's like beeing in Starfighter Command when you're not one of the X-wing elite. Also, one other thing about Salm that cracked me up is that Wedge refuses a promotion to General because it'll keep him out of a cockpit when he's worked many a time with a man who is a General and still flying. Oh, and he also took down Baron Fel while flying with one engine. The guy's got skill. -----signature----- "Get the order and execute it. Let the Generals sort out the rest." -Commander Bly Proud recepient of Thrawn McEwok's Bronze Thranta™ "Politics is simply the continuation of war by other means." -Mandalore the Ultimate C/TSgt in the Civil Air Patrol
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 11/1 5:52pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	There is so much that is good about X-wing: Rogue Squadron that it is hard to summarize it. Suffice it to say, I will give it a try. It was by far the riskiest and most rewarding decision Bantam ever made. Plain and simple. Sure, one could argue that the X-wing comics series and Lucasarts flight sim games introduced us to the world of fighter pilots, but writing nine paperback books and introducing them to a much larger market was very ballsy. Fortunately for Bantam and the fans, it paid off tremendously well. Of course, I would be remiss if I didn't give Dark Horse comics it's due. While comics reach a far smaller medium than books, many of the best characters are introduced and developed on DH's watch, to say nothing of some amazing storylines. General Horton Salm and Defender Wing. Spot on. In fact, having an officer and a squadron that served as an ally/foil for Wedge and the Rogues was awesome. Even better, instead of making Salm and the Defenders out to be your typical antagonists, we are instead treated to a brave bunch of pilots flying aged Y-wings and a awesome colonel. It is great seeing the development of Wedge and Salm's relationship over the course of the first few books. Without a doubt, General Horton Salm is one of those characters I wish was pulled from EU limbo. Hell, I would be happy with "Horton Salm retired to his homeworld of Norval II and opened a caf shop". Stackpole also is the undisputed master of writing Admiral Ackbar. Few authors, save KJA, ever took the time and care that Stackpole did for Ackbar. We get a good look into Ackbar's psyche and his heart. Stackpole deftly developed the mentor/frienship of Wedge and Ackbar. As Havac pointed out, a big reason the Rogue Squadron was so sucessful is that it was written about an era that had already passed. Stackpole merely needed to do him homework, which produced stories that mesh incredibly well with the other EU novels that were set in the same era. Sure, Stackpole make's him errors, but IMO they are pretty small. I can even forgive him about setting the liberation of Coruscant in 6.5 ABY, as even I missed Zahn's reference in TTT about the NR having only recently set up shop on the planet. All in all, the X-wing series remains one of the pinacles of the Expanded Universe and required reading for new readers. --Adm. Nick -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi A New Hope
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 11/1 6:41pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	Salm made an all-too-brief appearance in Isard's Revenge, still active military. -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
TKeira_Lea Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 11/1 6:56pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	Havac posted: Stackpole's prose is imperfect. His voicing of characters could use work. But his characterization, his grasp of the universe, his ability to flesh out everything -- they're truly remarkable. He's a decent author with his set of flaws in terms of prose, and a bit heavy on the "Woo cartoonvillainous Imps!" side. But in other areas, areas important to Star Wars as a setting, he's just unparalleled. He's indispensable in terms of making the EU as good as it has been. And that's why I'd love to have him back. His humor is okay, falls a bit in the trap of his sometimes stilted dialogue, but romance is where he shines. Stackpole is a guy who knows that the spark of romance lights up a book. It's not heavy in Rogue Squadron itself, but he lays the seeds for Corran's pull between Erisi and Mirax here, and he builds up the romance in the rest of his work to about its greatest heights in the EU. It's never sappy, never a sodden saccharine mess, but it's there, it's forthrightly romantic, it's relationships and love and lust, it permeates the story and connects the characters, but it never distracts and it's never the main plot. It's a realistic, yet romantic thread throughout the stories that never gets out of hand yet is never subordinated to action and adventure. Stackpole and Allston are really the only guys in the EU who have done romance right (Crispin and Cunningham being the only gals I can recall who have done it right). Yeah what Havac said. These books are what brought me back to the EU. -----signature----- http://www.lominalecantina.com Do you ever talk to yourself? Worry when you answer back. current fanfic ~ Return to Bolis Island http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/29571370/p1/?19
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
jamhaw Registered: Oct '09	Date Posted: 11/1 8:34pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron! - Date Edited: 11/1 8:35pm (1 edits total) Edited By: jamhaw
	I enjoyed the book, but I was fairly disapointed with when it began. I had hoped it would begun pretty much immediately after the Truce at Bakura, and would involve Sate Pestage but I enjoyed the book and the entire series. I have since thought that a Tie Fighter series (perhaps involving the 181st) and tying up various gaps in the timeline (especially the immediate post Endor era) would be nice but I doubt that Lucasfilm will ever make it.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Nobody145 Registered: Feb '07	Date Posted: 11/1 11:51pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	Ah, I remember this book fondly. Definitely one of the best books/series that Bantam ever produced. The quality isn't super high, but as mentioned, the characters are great, and while I am a big fan of the Yavin three, its also wonderful to read Star Wars adventures that doesn't involve them, except as cameos, not too many Jedi, but still involves major events (but without the "fate of the galaxy is at stake, and if they lose, its the end of everything!" cliche that we've been getting for the last few dozen Del Rey novels). I think Del Rey has screwed up a lot of things, and this book/series shows all the good things possible when they try something different (of the recently published stuff, only the Coruscant Nights trilogy comes close). Ah, those were the good old days. I hadn't really read any of the Rogue Squadron comics then (which came first anyway?), so when I started reading this series, it was quite different, but also very fun. Plenty of battles, good characters and a good plot too. Although one of Stackpole's problems is a bit too much introspection occasionally, especially on Corran's part, but he's a nice character, so it usually doesn't get too annoying. Also, there are quite a few funny things, but it never descends into the occasional hilarity of Allston books (some light moments are fun, but when the story is as dark as in LotF, someetimes I don't really care for too much humor). And this book really set up many future EU elements, not to mention this series comprises one part of the Zahn/Stackpole corner of the EU. Wedge, Corran, Tycho, Rogue Squadron-post Endor, the New Republic making a major push for the galactic capital, we've got all the classic starfighters- the X-wing, TIE, Y-wing, etc. Although perhaps one of the best things is the... optimism of the book, I guess. Its post-Endor, so the Empire isn't in as good shape as it used to be, but is still a formidable foe. At the same time, though, while things aren't easy, there's an expectation that the good guys will win the day. Or to be more precise... while there are sad moments, like Inyri Forge, that was part of war, it doesn't involve ever more depressing and screwed up plots. Han and Leia aren't married yet and are still almsot at the flirting stage, Luke's just quietly searching for knowledge about the Jedi Order. The New Republic isn't quite the galactic power it will be, but its on its way. And of course, its wonderful to see plenty of Rebellion veterans in a time period when they aren't so old that they should've retired by then (like how many times they drag Wedge out of retirement). Havac probably covers this book/series pretty accurately in his review, so I don't have that much to add. I don't really care for a new series of Rogue books, because times have changed (and LotF really screwed up things, so not sure I'd care to read about more Rogue Squadron in that time period), but a series (comic or novel) devoted to the Legacy-era Rogue Squadron would be awesome. Ah, those were the good old days. -----signature----- Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Darth_Zandalor Registered: Aug '09	Date Posted: 11/2 9:51am Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	The best thing about this book is that it 'feels' like star wars. This is best seen in the starships themselves. They are the X-wings and Y-wings and tie fighters we all know and love. They are swift, sleek and deadly! It really makes this book accessible to newer fans. Its a lot easier to relate to an X-wing than it is to say a Howlrunner or a StarViper. Most of the ships in the book are either well known entries, or ships that are variations on the iconic designs, like the Tie Avenger. If I could complain about one thing in this book, it would be the description of the last battle scene. Now don't get me wrong, the fight was an awesome Death Star Trench Run moment, but I am still confused. After Corran misses his pass on the pipeline, Wedge tells him to go to ground on the planet's dark side. Next chapter we see corran hiding in a volcanic crater on Borleias' moon. I was really confused, can someone maybe clear this up?
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
darkadun Registered: Mar '09	Date Posted: 11/2 9:55am Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	Funny, I just finished this for the first time like a week ago. I always heard good things about the series but never sat down to read it till now. Suffice to say, I liked the book alot. The characters are great and the setting is a great change of pace. Feels like classic star wars to me. Despite knowing much about some of the characters years from now, its great to see how Rogue Squadron is formed and I especially like the character interactions between Corran & Mirax. Awesome book IMO. As soon as I finish IC: 501st I will probably read Wedge's Gamble. -----signature----- "And then there's Aeona Cantor. She's not my love interest – she's Nick's girlfriend, and that's the whole story. Anyway, she's not my type. Too abrasive. And I don't like redheads."
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
beccatoria Title: Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 11/2 1:20pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	Okay, awesome response people. Largely I think I agree with most of the people here. I'd cautiously agree with Havac's assessment that he suffers on dialogue at times - more a Joss Whedonesque habit of having everyone speak similarly than anything truly [i]bad[i], and I also had trouble following the space battles on occasion, though I'm not ready to put that down to the writing rather than my inability to understand space battles in any format. But despite the fact that the writing isn't the smoothest I've read, the characters and the story really drew me in. I know characters like Tycho, Wedge, Gavin and to a lesser extent (because he's more used) Corran from other EU sources, but I didn't have the affection for them but no really deep understanding of the characters and I was pleasantly surprised by how easily I began to empathise and care for them. As noted, they have fully fleshed out backgrounds and personalities and Stackpole's contribution to the EU shouldn't be underestimated. Havac correctly notes that these novels aren't quite at the start of the EU renaissance but what I was trying to get at is merely something others have noted as the thread has gone on. This were late enough that there was a solid line of novels and cast of characters, but early enough that the decision to spin off into something this obscure (centred around new or at best peripheral characters) and focusing on fighter pilots rather than Jedi, is still a gutsy and surprising one. But I do have to agree, it pays off. The bigger, Jedi-centric, galaxy-spanning stories are always going to be my favourites, but this novel really held my attention in a way I didn't expect. I have to be honest, at the moment, Ysard hasn't completely grabbed me. She performs her function but I think her character will benefit from a longer arc and getting some wins in against the protagonists to should help solidify her competence - perhaps I'm just burned by too many "competent" imperials who are really anything but. Which is why, perhaps, I'm more impressed by Loor. That's an interesting way to handle the classic dilemma of creating a threatening, calculating, competent villain who still ultimately has to lose. I'm looking forward to seeing more of him. Also, thanks Bly for your thoughts on Salm - I hadn't really paid him much attention, but you're right, he's an interesting character. And also, just for Nick, yes, I did love Ackbar. -----signature----- legatus imperatoris britanniæ superior REMEMBER: X-WING: WEDGE'S GAMBLE DISCUSSION STARTS IN DECEMBER! Han's a girl, so I got a Golden Ewok.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 11/2 2:54pm Subject: 181st Imperial Discussion Group: X-Wing: Rogue Squadron!
	Yeah, if she were only around for a single book, Isard would be a pretty mediocre villain. Decent enough, but nothing extraordinary. And while I'm not sure she's ever anything extraordinary, she benefits significantly from exposure. Her sheer presence as a villain, the serial nature as the heroes confront her over four books and face down a succession of supporting villains who all work for her and contribute to her villainy, is really what lends her heft. She's not Vader, the Emperor, Thrawn, or Nil Spaar, who are instantly memorable, classic villains -- she's more like Tsavong Lah, Alema Rar, or Nom Anor, who benefit in large part from their longevity and what's built up between them and the heroes. -----signature----- "Is there a captain's hat involved in this?" "I . . . don't know what department I want. I need . . . pants."
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History