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Author	Topic: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
Knight1192 Registered: Feb '00	Date Posted: 5/17/05 9:19pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	I've actually been playing a game lately where there's a glitch in it and every now and then the enemies do become ghosts, in a manner of speaking. Normally when you kill them they fall on the ground and stay their for a minute or two. But sometimes now when you kill them you can see their health is totally gone but their either standing there or trying to preform the last thing they were doing when you killed them before fading away. Funny, actually, to watch a guy running in place when he'd either be running towards or away from you if he still had some health. -----signature----- Knight1192 Seeker of knowledge Purveyor of history May we all be illuminated by that which we seek Check out the Star Wars theories on my website: http://www.angelfire.com/vi/knight_1192/index.html
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LijoT Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 5/18/05 1:34am Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!) - Date Edited: 5/18/05 1:42am (3 edits total) Edited By: LijoT
	is she in the league of Luke Skywalker in the post-NJO era? She doesn't even stand a chance. She was utterly humiliated by Luke before, who destroyed her lightwhip and armor and still tried to convert her to the light. He's in a league of his own, representing what Anakin could've been if he never lost his potential. He defeated Lumiya's master (Vader). He defeated her master's master, who is perhaps the greatest Sith Lord ever (Emperor). And that was all a long time ago, and he was only growing more powerful and wise than ever...She'd realistically mess with Luke only in her dreams (unless oddly enough, she wants to enjoy the humilation again since he won't kill her). And being more machine like Vader means she already lost a big part of any potential she had, not that she stood a chance against any of them anyway. Lumiya could be a threat to the other Jedi of course. A confrontation between Lumiya and Mara would be quite interesting, since I remember reading somewhere that they shared a mutual animosity -----signature----- "In a time of greatest adversity, The Greatest Jedi will be born. So it is that a man, Luke Skywalker, heir to a 25,000 year old tradition, has found the courage to challenge the dark side on its own ground."
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Halagad_Ventor Title: - Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 5/22/05 1:21pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	Knight1192 wrote: “I've actually been playing a game lately where there's a glitch in it and every now and then the enemies do become ghosts, in a manner of speaking... Funny, actually, to watch a guy running in place when he'd either be running towards or away from you if he still had some health.” Heh…that’s right! Glitches of these kinds were commonplace in the days of the early 8-bit Nintendo. Most of the time they were more due to the game cartridges being regularly manhandled by eager kids. LijoT wrote: “Lumiya could be a threat to the other Jedi of course. A confrontation between Lumiya and Mara would be quite interesting, since I remember reading somewhere that they shared a mutual animosity ” You read it here first, LijoT! Joe and I haven’t given up on chronicling Lumiya and Mara’s first head-to-head since foreshadowing that confrontation in the Emperor’s Pawns. Things have gotten more complicated with Dark Horse Tales coming to an end, which would’ve been the most receptive platform. With interest in Lumiya surging again with Legacy of the Force, however, there may be a new hope. Best, Abel -----signature----- Abel G. Peña: http://www.abelgpena.com Star Wars Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/abelgpena Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/abelgpena Second Prophet of the Church of Waru Recipient of a monstrosity known as a Mandalorian Ewok™
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GrandAdmiralJello Title: Emperor • EUC • JCC Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 5/22/05 11:39pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!) - Date Edited: 5/22/05 11:42pm (1 edits total) Edited By: GrandAdmiralJello
	Speaking of lost characters and continuity... Where's Ars Dangor? He's one of the biggest names in the Galactic Empire, and pretty much completely ran the thing along with Sate Pestage. Post-Endor, he led one of the biggest groups--the Emperor's Ruling Circle--and was extremely powerful and influential. He's mentioned in the CTD, DESB, and the DSTC. He's been around at least up to the Imperial recapture of Coruscant, and could conceiveably still be hiding about someplace being his devious little self. Any ideas? I'd like him to return and take over the Remnant as emperor or minister or something and give that silly thing some legitimacy that it sorely needs. Or maybe get a mention someplace so we know what he's up to. -----signature----- SPQR Vates Jυλιαδις Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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LijoT Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 5/22/05 11:42pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!) - Date Edited: 5/22/05 11:44pm (1 edits total) Edited By: LijoT
	You read it here first, LijoT! Joe and I haven’t given up on chronicling Lumiya and Mara’s first head-to-head since foreshadowing that confrontation in the Emperor’s Pawns. Things have gotten more complicated with Dark Horse Tales coming to an end, which would’ve been the most receptive platform. With interest in Lumiya surging again with Legacy of the Force, however, there may be a new hope. Great stuff, I can see things getting a lot more interesting There most certainly is a new hope -----signature----- "In a time of greatest adversity, The Greatest Jedi will be born. So it is that a man, Luke Skywalker, heir to a 25,000 year old tradition, has found the courage to challenge the dark side on its own ground."
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Halagad_Ventor Title: - Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 5/23/05 12:52am Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	Ars Dangor, that slippery son of a Bith. It is too bad he's gotten the shaft all these years, though really, even Pestage get as much screen time as he has was pretty lucky. Not bad for a character whose only reference was in the Empire Strikes Back Official Souvenir magazine! Thank A Guide to the Star Wars Universe 1st ed. author Raymond Velasco for that one. Ars may have kicked the bucket during Operation Shadow Hand and the Emperor's return, since we don't seem to see him on the Ruling Council in Crimson Empire II. One could argue that he's just chilling in the background throughout that series, but that certainly doesn't seem like his style. I'd like to see Ars get a nasty comeuppance...no one gets to be that slimy and not pay for it. Take care, Abel -----signature----- Abel G. Peña: http://www.abelgpena.com Star Wars Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/abelgpena Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/abelgpena Second Prophet of the Church of Waru Recipient of a monstrosity known as a Mandalorian Ewok™
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GrandAdmiralJello Title: Emperor • EUC • JCC Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 5/23/05 2:17am Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	Aw, be nice to the poor guy. He was slimey, but at least he was one of the few higher ups in the Empire that didn't have their eye on supreme power. nods Yeah, he might have died sometime during the events of DE. But maybe not. After all, the DSTC mentions that his immense power has never led him to consider plotting against Palpatine. He had tremendous personal loyalty to the man, and though he was ambitious, the ambition never pointed against Palpatine. He'd never put himself on a group that seized power by murdering Palpatine. Ars would probably have nothing to do with them, in fact. So with that in mind, maybe he still is floating around someplace. -----signature----- SPQR Vates Jυλιαδις Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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Pelranius Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 5/23/05 8:43am Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	"May" have kicked the bucket? Aderlaath Pallopides (sp), Palpy's grand niece, would probably be a better choice for Imperial chief of state (what ever happened to her?) -----signature----- Fleet Junkie and Proud! Fics: Destiny's Inferno (TTT/DE AU) And the Skywalker Saga KOTOR Style Updated 7/24/06 see bio for details
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Halagad_Ventor Title: - Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 5/23/05 12:20pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	GrandAdmiralJello wrote: “ Aw, be nice to the poor guy. He was slimey, but at least he was one of the few higher ups in the Empire that didn't have their eye on supreme power.” Very well Mr. Jello. Ars may live. “He'd never put himself on a group that seized power by murdering Palpatine. Ars would probably have nothing to do with them, in fact. So with that in mind, maybe he still is floating around someplace. ” You may be right. In any case, it’d definitely be a good idea to get up to speed on Ars and the Ruling Circle. They’re an interesting bunch. Pelranius wrote: “"May" have kicked the bucket?” Or buy the moisture farm, take the Final Jump, kiss your choobies good-bye. If there’s a good opportunity for bringing Ars Dangor back out of limbo, I would be in favor of it. ”Aderlaath Pallopides (sp), Palpy's grand niece, would probably be a better choice for Imperial chief of state (what ever happened to her?)” Michael Allen Horne, writer of the Dark Empire and Corporate Sector Sourcebooks, is a wonderful writer. His brief character sketches of Ederlathh Pallopides and Admiral Betl Oxtroe, among others, leave a lasting impression with just a few words. As not only the Emperor’s Pawns, but my more recent SW work demonstrates, the Dark Empire Sourcebook is never far from my mind. We don’t know what happened to Ederlathh, but it’d sure be interesting to find out. Take care, Abel -----signature----- Abel G. Peña: http://www.abelgpena.com Star Wars Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/abelgpena Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/abelgpena Second Prophet of the Church of Waru Recipient of a monstrosity known as a Mandalorian Ewok™
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Leto II Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 5/23/05 2:47pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	Ahhhh...someone else spreading the Horne/Velasco love in here. One can never have too much. Bask in it. Cherish it. The disciples must stick together. (At least Kren Blista-Vanee scored a damn action figure.) Indeed, the Betl Oxtroe piece provides a rather crucial bridging-link not only between the Thrawn trilogy and Dark Empire series, but also between those and the (takes a deep, gulping breath) Glove of Darth Vader books. What with Palpatine's "son," the trial of the Imperial Moffs, and the Imperial Ruling Council's political reformation throes during that era effectively twisting the Empire's foreign policy right on its ear. From what I recall, the only piece that mentions Ederlathh was in Mr. Horne's magnum opus (for what that's worth). -----signature----- "If there's one thing I hate, it's losing. If there's TWO things I hate, it's losing and getting cancer." - Kenny Powers
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GrandAdmiralJello Title: Emperor • EUC • JCC Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 5/23/05 3:58pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!) - Date Edited: 5/23/05 4:00pm (1 edits total) Edited By: GrandAdmiralJello
	Halagad_Ventor posted: Very well Mr. Jello. Ars may live. You may be right. In any case, it’d definitely be a good idea to get up to speed on Ars and the Ruling Circle. They’re an interesting bunch. He may? Woohoo! Yeah, it would. They're absolutely fascinating, and just about the only bits of the legitimate Empire still hanging around. Halagad_Ventor posted: If there’s a good opportunity for bringing Ars Dangor back out of limbo, I would be in favor of it. Neat. I'd love it too, who knows what that little guy is up to? It'd be fascinating to read about. He's quite the big fish... Halagad_Ventor posted: Michael Allen Horne, writer of the Dark Empire and Corporate Sector Sourcebooks, is a wonderful writer. His brief character sketches of Ederlathh Pallopides and Admiral Betl Oxtroe, among others, leave a lasting impression with just a few words. As not only the Emperor’s Pawns, but my more recent SW work demonstrates, the Dark Empire Sourcebook is never far from my mind. We don’t know what happened to Ederlathh, but it’d sure be interesting to find out. Mmhmm. I love the DESB, it's one of the better WEG works out there. It provides a great history of the Empire post-Endor, which even now fits existing continuity. It and the ISB are the two best sources on the Empire out there. Hm. Suppose Ars Dangor showed up at the Remnant and used his superior authority to invest the Imperial dignity in Ederlathh. That'd make her the Empress, Dangor a prime minister of sorts, and Pellæon and the Moffs could still maintain the positions they currently hold in the Remnant. That sort of legitimacy, however, would finally make the Remnant worthy of the title Imperial. Unfortunately, if we do see either of them again, I doubt it'd be anything so fantastic. Appearances here and there are one thing, but this sort of thing would require that Del Rey actually be informed so that their authors would have to integrate it in their story. And I don't think they're interested in Imperials or legitimizing the Remnant. I wonder how the GFFA would react to another Imperial monarch, though. Especially a relation of Palpatine. shrugs I suppose I'd be happy just seeing either of them someplace, doing something. -----signature----- SPQR Vates Jυλιαδις Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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Citizen_Chauvelin Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 5/23/05 4:05pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	Ars Dangor has been woefully underused by the Expanded Universe, especially in light of the prominence to which Kinman Doriana is undeservedly highlighted. Dangor's character predates Doriana by many years, and was also one of Senator Palpatine's assistants, but is rarely remembered at all. He was certainly a cunning fellow, having been the de facto regent of the Empire as of the Battle of Yavin -- a position that Sate Pestage would later hold by the time of the Battle of Hoth -- and surviving as a major player in Imperial politics as late as Dark Empire as leader of the Emperor's Ruling Circle. However, it is important that authors be careful with their references, as there are a number of errors regarding the Imperial Ruling Council (a pre-Endor board of regency, with Grand Moff Trachta, Ars Dangor, and Sate Pestage as likely candidates for its presidents), the Emperor's Ruling Circle (Dangor's heterogeneous coalition that brought down Pestage's regency and ruled the Empire between the fall of Isard's regency and the return of the Galactic Emperor, being Grand Admiral Thrawn's nominal superiors throughout his shogunate), and the Imperial Interim Ruling Council (the post-Byss technocratic government of the remnants of the Empire, composed of individuals unsatisfied with their places in the Palpatinist order of things), as these three are frequently confused and conflated. This subject is important and is discussed in detail in the article "Sic Transit Gloria" in the Analysis section of this author's site, Domus Publica. Dangor was a consummate politico and ingrigant. The fact that he did not destroy Lord Jax's Interim Ruling Council and seize control of the remnants of the Empire for himself after the Galactic Emperor's death is a powerful argument in favor of the idea that he was in fact dead. He probably died on Byss along with the rest of the Imperial elite, as did Sate Pestage. -----signature----- They seek him here, they seek him there, those Frenchies seek him everywhere. Is he in Heaven? Or is he in Hell? That damned elusive Pimpernel?
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GrandAdmiralJello Title: Emperor • EUC • JCC Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 5/23/05 4:31pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	Does it necessarily mean he's dead, though? After the Interim Ruling Council dissolved, there was no Galactic Empire to speak of. All of the remnants were either absorbed by warlord states or reduced to fortress worlds with nominal Loyalist standing at best. Ars Dangor would've entirely lost his previous power base, with nothing but his title and own competence to rely on. We know, for instance, that as of the JAT, Loyalist holdings ceased to exist. It was just a series of warlords and singular independant systems that comprimised any former Imperial authorities. By Darksaber, there's a new Remnant formed out of the guts of warlord organizations--but even this group isn't something that Ars Dangor could easily gain access to, with its martial focus. I'd suggest a politician like him stood no chance of regaining power in any former Imperial group until the post-treaty Remnant, which has finally settled down into a government. His silence is no indicative of his death. He could merely be in the background, like he was when Pestage, Isard, or Thrawn assumed power. -----signature----- SPQR Vates Jυλιαδις Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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TalonCard Title: •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff Registered: Jan '01	Date Posted: 5/24/05 9:51pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	As mentioned, Ars Dangor was said to have served Senator Palpatine as an aide during the Old Republic. I think that Dangor, along with aides Pestage, Doriana, and Gizen might have served Palpatine as an evil version of Padme's handmaidens--aides, protectors, bodyguards, sevants...and decoys... TC -----signature----- Death in the Slave Pits: http://www.starwars.com/hyperspace/fiction/feature20090531/index.html GODV Guide: www.myuselessknowledge.com/swfa/main.html Hyperspace Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/taloncard
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Halagad_Ventor Title: - Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 6/5/05 2:40pm Subject: RE: The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)
	Leto II wrote: “Ahhhh...someone else spreading the Horne/Velasco love in here. One can never have too much. Bask in it. Cherish it. The disciples must stick together. (At least Kren Blista-Vanee scored a damn action figure.)” I’ve never had the opportunity to talk to Michael Allen Horne, but Ray Velasco is a very cool guy. “From what I recall, the only piece that mentions Ederlathh was in Mr. Horne's magnum opus (for what that's worth).” That’s true, presently. Citizen_Chauvelin wrote: “However, it is important that authors be careful with their references, as there are a number of errors regarding the Imperial Ruling Council (a pre-Endor board of regency, with Grand Moff Trachta, Ars Dangor, and Sate Pestage as likely candidates for its presidents), the Emperor's Ruling Circle (Dangor's heterogeneous coalition that brought down Pestage's regency and ruled the Empire between the fall of Isard's regency and the return of the Galactic Emperor, being Grand Admiral Thrawn's nominal superiors throughout his shogunate), and the Imperial Interim Ruling Council (the post-Byss technocratic government of the remnants of the Empire, composed of individuals unsatisfied with their places in the Palpatinist order of things), as these three are frequently confused and conflated. This subject is important and is discussed in detail in the article "Sic Transit Gloria" in the Analysis section of this author's site, Domus Publica.” Hey Citizen_Chauvelin! I’ve put off responding to this thread because of the excellent points brought up in this post. This was going to take a while. First, I agree with your points about Ars and Kinman, and you’re absolutely right, about the conflation of these groups by SW authors, and I took note of these differences years ago when I wrote The State of the Galactic Civil War post-Jedi essay. Note two points that complicate the issue further: 1) A Guide to the Star Wars Universe 2nd Edition gives us the entry Emperor’s Inner Circle: “The ministers and governors closest to the Emperor at the time of the Battle of Endor were collectively called the Emperor’s Inner Circle. After the Emperor’s death, this group unsuccessfully attempted to take control of the Empire.” The source for this entry is given as Dark Empire. While the name doesn’t turn up there, that’s not surprising since Tom Veitch created a mini encyclopedia of terms for Dark Empire, thus why the The Guide gives us full so-called Dark Empire entries for Megadeath and other single-panel “extras” from the story. However, the exact name Emperor’s Inner Circle does appear in Dark Empire II, of which the Dark Side Adepts Nefta and Sa-Di are a part. Given The Guide entry in conjunction with these lines from the Dark Empire Sourcebook, DSAs Gwellib Ap-Llewff and Savuud Thimram were also likely part of the “Emperor’s Inner Circle”: “Before the Emperor’s defeat, many [Dark Side Adepts] had been gathered into the Imperial Ruling Council [note Imperial Ruling Council]. It had been planned that eventually these adepts would replace the system of Moffs, Grand Moffs and governors, instituting a Dark Side Theocracy.” Pg 65. 2) The Dark Empire Sourcebook replaces the last word of Emperor’s Ruling Circle with “Council” in the “text crawl,” giving us Emperor’s Ruling Council. Furthermore, as just mentioned, it later uses the term Imperial Ruling Council without any attempt at differentiation. It’s important to note that when Horne wrote the Dark Empire Sourcebook, no reference to Imperial Interim Ruling Council yet existed, nor had the 2nd edition of The Guide yet been released. Can all these groups be different and independent? Certainly, but no author has ever treated them as such or is likely to, because the differences in these esoteric groups are simply too nuanced, and honestly, nearly negligible. For the sake of convenience, I must admit I have chosen to ignore these delicate distinctions, and chalk up the differences to the whims of these opportunists at different time periods. The Emperor’s Pawns article combines the Emperor’s/Imperial (Interim) Inner/Ruling Circle/Council into a single entity under the Sarcev Quest entry. TalonCard wrote: “I think that Dangor, along with aides Pestage, Doriana, and Gizen might have served Palpatine as an evil version of Padme's handmaidens--aides, protectors, bodyguards, sevants...and decoys...” Interesting parallel TC. Take care folks! Abel -----signature----- Abel G. Peña: http://www.abelgpena.com Star Wars Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/abelgpena Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/abelgpena Second Prophet of the Church of Waru Recipient of a monstrosity known as a Mandalorian Ewok™
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