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Topic:
The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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Havac
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
4/13/07 12:00pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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Rouge77 posted:
Ulic Qel-Droma appeared to Anakin Skywalker almost 4000 years after his death in one minor game, which is canon.
That was very definitely a hologram. Force ghosts don't have scan lines.
At any rate, however, it's important to note that Force ghosts operate on a different level from you or I. They're one with the Force. That means they're generally pretty wise and may even have a pretty good idea of the "will of the Force". They also, no doubt, are wise enough to realize that the living must handle things on their own. If the Force ghosts are constantly stepping in, then they might be helping, but they're also handicapping their successors because they're making them dependent on Force-ghost assistance for situations they really can handle on their own. Anakin stepped in and warned Luke of his former apprentice Flint back shortly after ROTJ, when Luke couldn't possibly know about him, Flint presented a major threat, and Luke was just a kid. Luke's the Grand Master now. He doesn't and shouldn't need Yoda popping by to say, "Hey, Lumiya's over here, move quick and you can get her." He's big boy now. He has to solve his own problems. When a parent takes the training wheels off, he has to accept that his kid could, and probably will, fall. But how else will that kid learn to ride a bike? And how harmful would it be to insulate him from any possible consequences by never taking the training wheels off? Having him be 22 years old and still riding with the training wheels? Most parents decide that a scuffed knee or two is an acceptable sacrifice for their kid to grow up.
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Darth_Shpydar
Registered:
Oct '06
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Date Posted:
4/13/07 12:09pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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Havac posted:
Rouge77 posted:
Ulic Qel-Droma appeared to Anakin Skywalker almost 4000 years after his death in one minor game, which is canon.
That was very definitely a hologram. Force ghosts don't have scan lines.
You may be correct. But the scan lines may have been OOU due more to the nature of the video game FMV, and not necessarily visible IU scanlines.
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Havac
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
4/13/07 3:36pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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I doubt the FMV required the little moving grid that says "hologram" in Star Wars. I'd agree that it's hard to really render a Force ghost well within video games, but I really don't think the scan lines could be in there except deliberately. They certainly don't help it look like a ghost. No, I think they're the clear giveaway.
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
4/13/07 8:03pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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I just recalled that Ulic Qel-Droma was cut off from the Force by Nomi Sunrider... and she didn't know how to undo it. I'd think that'd affect his ability to become a Force Ghost at his death. His death would be just like any other Force-blind human.
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Lank_Pavail
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
4/13/07 8:53pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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But he vanished into the Force when he died, becoming one with it.
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
4/13/07 9:05pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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Lank_Pavail posted:
But he vanished into the Force when he died, becoming one with it.
Where is this said? Maybe I need to drag out my TotJ stuff again. 
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_Kris_
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
4/14/07 5:37am
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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RebelGrrl posted:
Lank_Pavail posted:
But he vanished into the Force when he died, becoming one with it.
Where is this said? Maybe I need to drag out my TotJ stuff again.
You see it in the last issue of Redemption.
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Cletus1901
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
4/15/07 1:09am
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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you know I just read allegiance, and while It's completely unrelated, I found a connection to Mara and Mace Windu, since if she's the sacrifice it'd be safe to assume it's along the lines of how Anakin killed master Windu. When she first draws her lightsaber in Allegiance, she recalls how Palpatine had told her only one jedi in the past century had carried a blade that color, and how he had given her the crystal for it. She said she couldn't recall how he had gotten it. So basically, it leads you to the conclusion that her original lightsaber carried the same heart as master Windu's. Maybe Zahn was dropping a hint at how one of his favorite creations was going to meet her end.
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Grey1
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
4/15/07 5:03am
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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One thing that occurs to me is that the discussion currently fails to seperate two events:
- Jacen's sacrifice (which will happen)
- a major character death (which is also a given)
So, even if Mara or Luke die, they do not need to explain this as Jacen's sacrifice. That might be Tenel Ka, for example.
Cletus1901 posted:
you know I just read allegiance, and while It's completely unrelated, I found a connection to Mara and Mace Windu, since if she's the sacrifice it'd be safe to assume it's along the lines of how Anakin killed master Windu. When she first draws her lightsaber in Allegiance, she recalls how Palpatine had told her only one jedi in the past century had carried a blade that color, and how he had given her the crystal for it. She said she couldn't recall how he had gotten it. So basically, it leads you to the conclusion that her original lightsaber carried the same heart as master Windu's. Maybe Zahn was dropping a hint at how one of his favorite creations was going to meet her end.
The Mara/Mace-lightsaber connection is there, and I can see Mara going out in such a way. But I wouldn't say that Zahn had this planned; he just made the obvious connection based on lightsaber colours (and remember that Mara doesn't have that purple lightsaber anymore). I'd rather argue that DR were inspired to add up the pieces to a ep3-like scene.
What would be funny would be that Anakin's lightsaber would be the victim, not the aggressor. 
Here's info from someone who talked to Zahn:
Coonsan posted:
-He doesn't get consulted about his character or anything. Mara could be killed and he would have no idea. Once he writes something, it becomes property of Lucas.
[...]
-That in Allegiance, he wanted mara's lightsaber to be Mace's, but they edited it out.
I don't know whether Lumiya would want another proof of loyalty as Jacen's already killed a Jedi for the sake of the Sith idea, plus he was already willing to sacrifice Luke and/or Lumiya in Tempest, which shows that he has no loyalty except for the way of the Sith. I could see Jacen killing her, though, due to circumstances. When he then says it was his sacrifice Lumiya would frown at him and demand a true sacrifice which would then be Tenel Ka or someone like that.
They could even have Han and Leia babysit Allana so that Jacen doesn't get to her...  But that sounds more like a Denning story after all. So maybe Denning will deal with the Darth Who/Tenel Ka issue in Inferno?
Thrawn McEwok posted:
Rampant speculation, though... the absence of any other real reference to Luke is suspicious, and the underlying mood of the scene could fit
Darth_Lex posted:
Maybe Karen wrote the husbands in Bloodlines and the wives in Sacrifice.
I didn't listen to the audio excerpt more than once and I didn't pay all that much attention to detail, but here's the real rampant speculation... 
Mara is out for revenge on Lumiya. Where is Luke? Leia is out for revenge on Alema. Where's Han? 
Heard it here first!
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
4/15/07 7:58am
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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Cletus1901 posted:
you know I just read allegiance, and while It's completely unrelated, I found a connection to Mara and Mace Windu, since if she's the sacrifice it'd be safe to assume it's along the lines of how Anakin killed master Windu. When she first draws her lightsaber in Allegiance, she recalls how Palpatine had told her only one jedi in the past century had carried a blade that color, and how he had given her the crystal for it. She said she couldn't recall how he had gotten it. So basically, it leads you to the conclusion that her original lightsaber carried the same heart as master Windu's. Maybe Zahn was dropping a hint at how one of his favorite creations was going to meet her end.
Zahn wanted it to be Mace Windu's lightsaber/crystal that Mara was given, but was told to change it by the editors. This was reported from Zahn's Lexington, KY book signing for Allegiance. Enough implication is there to make us all wonder, but it's not Mace's.
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LordVader66
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/15/07 11:30am
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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RebelGrrl posted:
Cletus1901 posted:
you know I just read allegiance, and while It's completely unrelated, I found a connection to Mara and Mace Windu, since if she's the sacrifice it'd be safe to assume it's along the lines of how Anakin killed master Windu. When she first draws her lightsaber in Allegiance, she recalls how Palpatine had told her only one jedi in the past century had carried a blade that color, and how he had given her the crystal for it. She said she couldn't recall how he had gotten it. So basically, it leads you to the conclusion that her original lightsaber carried the same heart as master Windu's. Maybe Zahn was dropping a hint at how one of his favorite creations was going to meet her end.
Zahn wanted it to be Mace Windu's lightsaber/crystal that Mara was given, but was told to change it by the editors. This was reported from Zahn's Lexington, KY book signing for Allegiance. Enough implication is there to make us all wonder, but it's not Mace's.
And didn't alligence come out 3 or 4 months ago? Hmmm, interesting. Though I doubt she will be killed like Mace. If it's between Lumiya and Mara, I don't think Jacen is going to have trouble deciding who to kill.
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Cletus1901
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
4/15/07 2:10pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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Jacen still needs Lumiya. he doesn't need Mara.
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
4/15/07 4:33pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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Cletus1901 posted:
Jacen still needs Lumiya. he doesn't need Mara.
He especially doesn't need Mara carrying tales of his involvement with Lumiya to Luke and the rest of the Jedi Council.
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
4/15/07 5:11pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
- Date Edited:
4/15/07 5:12pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Rouge77
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But does Jacen even meet Mara in this book? The audio excerpt gives the idea that Mara expects to meet him soon, but it could well be that they never meet. Mara could end up facing Lumiya somewhere and at the same time Jacen could be back on Coruscant - with Ben and Luke. And Jacen probably is on Coruscant during the excerpt - who else could have teached Ben to do what he did?  So it could be that Mara faces succesfully Lumiya and kills her, and at the same time Jacen kills Luke.
This series is, after all, a copy of PT. And so we would have Grand Master Luke, just like Grand Master Yoda on Coruscant facing Jacen, who would have the role of Palpatine, and Mara would be Obi-wan who would go and face her version of Anakin, in this case Lumiya. And as former Hands of the Emperors they too in some way are "sisters"... In this case the Sith on Coruscant would yet again win, but this time the Grand Master would die, and not escape. Mara could then kill Lumiya - or, if they want to do this with a twist, die also.
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SuperLariat
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
4/15/07 7:47pm
Subject:
RE: The Official Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice Discussion Thread
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Ben could have been taught the technique, but unsuccessful in it's use by himself until then. Which would explain the elation he feels
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